Puppy Prices - Variances

[Llante]

Hi there, I am first time poster, long time stalker.

I have a question as a first time puppy purchaser. We have adopted and fostered pets, and currently rehomed a golden retriever and domestic short hair. So I'm not entirely new to dogs. I am however, new to purchasing puppies, specifically breeder dogs.

For quite a lot of reasons I am investigating buying a pup versus adopting an older dog. I want the experience and time to spend on a new pup and give it a forever home from the day dot. Maybe I am getting clucky again, and I am unable to bear any more children, the thought of bringing up a pup might help fill that empty space in our home. Anyway, I will get off topic justifying why I would like to buy vs adopting again.

I just wanted to ask a few questions regarding breeders versus cost. How much is an average pup? Why is there a variance of $300-$1500 per pup? Is it worth buying a top of the line show dog if it is just a family pet? Or should you purely go from personality and gut feelings. Not breeding, showing or anything, just addition to the family. Although I am NOT buying from pet shop, I have seen that they are up to the $900+ mark, whilst I've seen some listings from breeders (I assume so) for $300-$1500. I have been researching and found a lot of breeders don't make profit from selling their dogs, that it is more a hobby. I'd like some fact/fiction from this. As I'm still confused as to why there is such a variance in costings.

Also, I'm in QLD and noticing a lot more pups down south, are much cheaper. Is this because it's more expensive to breed in QLD? Or is it just demand is higher and thus breeders charge more? A friend of mine bought from VIC and had him freighted up because it was still half the price at the time to buy a pup from a breeder!

I am waiting until jan/feb to make my decision as there could be potential young pups up for rehome after Christmas, which I may not have the urge to resist. Does time of year change the breeder prices too?

Sorry if this is a muddle, want to do research and make sure we can still afford food, desexing, vaccs, toys, beds etc on top of the initial outlay. It's like planning to have a new child! (in which I have 2 already)

Thanks in Advance

Oh, and to clarify I am specifically looking at Beagles. After months of searching we believe this to be the best breed for us.

[Kia]

Llante....prices quite often relate to health testing, importing semen, AI. There is also the raising of pups and their health testing, microchipping and so forth.

I don't have Beagles so someone who does might be able to give you a clearer picture.

Researching the breeders, visiting their kennels if you can and asking questions of them should give you a clearer idea of why the prices vary. There is also demand and supply.

Good luck in your search for your puppy.

[dancinbcs]

Breeding healthy quality puppies costs a lot of money. In most cases the breeder is lucky to break even on outgoing costs for a litter so they charge what they have to to try to do that. A lot depends on how much health testing a particular breed needs. Cheap puppies are often not the bargain they seem and very expensive ones can simply be a rip off to an unsuspecting public. It is best to ask around, somewhere like here for an average price the breed you are looking at. Less popular breeds with few health tests could be as low as $600 and the most expensive to breed, like giant breeds and Bulldogs who require extensive health testing of both parents and puppies will be at the high end of the scale. Popularity also plays a part so currently the "fashionable" breeds of French Bulldogs and Boston Terriers can be all sorts of outrageous prices because people are prepared to pay it. Other unscrupulous breeders charge extra for unusual colours making out that there is something special about them when there isn't.

Buying a cheaper dog from an unregistered breeder is like a game of roulette. You have no guarantee that the puppy is what you paid for without a registered pedigree and the breeder will not have dons any health testing. It can end in disaster as happened in this thread Sick Puppy

Buying from a breeder who shows, competes with or works their dogs, means that they are breeding for dogs with sound bodies and temperaments to do all those things, rather than just churning out pet puppies for money. Most dedicated breeders only breed 1-3 litters per year, with bitches only having up to about 3 litters each in a lifetime. By the time they outlay all costs and keep a puppy from each litter, the income from puppies sold doesn't come close to keeping the bitch for her lifetime, so yes for most registered breeders it is a money losing hobby. The more dedicated they are about their breed, the more likely you are to get a good quality pet.

Just noticed you did specify a Beagle. I would probably expect to pay $1000 or maybe a bit less for a good quality Beagle on limit register but some Beagle breeder could confirm this. Working on averages - if a Beagle bitch has 3 litters of 5 and the breeder sells 12 at $1000 each, they have $12000 minus the cost of producing the litters (stud fees and travel to stud or frozen semen, vet bills, worming, vaccinations, microchips, extra food and supplements for bitch and puppies, whelping supplies, time off work to raise them, etc, etc ) which is about half that so they are left with $6000. The bitch lives for 15 years and costs at least $1000 a year to keep. If they show as well, the show costs will just about eat up the remaining money so while the litters may have paid for their hobby the income will not have paid towards keeping the bitch.

Now if things go wrong the breeder could end up with just 3-6 puppies, keep 3 and sell the remaining few. Add in caesarian costs at about $1000 each and it doesn't take long to end up well and truly behind.

Edited October 13, 2012 by dancinbcs

[asal]

When things go right a breeder can make a nice profit.

BUT woe betide any who admit that, or puppy farmer comes flying in all directions.

So we are supposed to be pious breeding for the good of the breed and at a loss if you want to avoid the 'unethical' tag and all that hate comming with it.

as for costs. Some have a litter and dont intend to breed again and i have seen some amazing quality pups go for a joke of a price.

Equally I have seen pups at the same price that once they achieve adulthood, leave the owners wondering "what breed is that" some people simply advertise a litter as the breed it looks like most, baby puppies can pass for something they will not even resemble with maturity. hence the amazing pet shop transformers.

[Llante]

Thank you for your replies. I know this forum is specific for purebreds and I have found a miriad of information for my PB Golden Retriever when I rescued him. When I did though, I never really cared about his background, I understand his hip scores will not be fantastic as I am pretty sure he was a petstore dog IE puppymill dog, but we love him regardless and couldn't not take him in.

So going from a "i don't care what you are, we will love you anyway" to a "you have to be of highest pedigree" feels a bit strange. But again, I am new to this, and trying to do my research. I worry about what will happen to those poor dogs who will end up in pounds or PTS because they didn't meet the high standards. Is there a middle ground?

Also before I posted I read the Sick Puppy link and can understand where you are coming from. Maybe adopting an older puppy/dog is less work than a sick puppy. I can understand with infants how quickly they get unwell. Ok, so things are making a bit more sense. It's a strange relationship breeders seem to have with families. Never seen anything like it before.

[Squidgy]

When things go right a breeder can make a nice profit.

BUT woe betide any who admit that, or puppy farmer comes flying in all directions.

So we are supposed to be pious breeding for the good of the breed and at a loss if you want to avoid the 'unethical' tag and all that hate comming with it.

as for costs. Some have a litter and dont intend to breed again and i have seen some amazing quality pups go for a joke of a price.

Equally I have seen pups at the same price that once they achieve adulthood, leave the owners wondering "what breed is that" some people simply advertise a litter as the breed it looks like most, baby puppies can pass for something they will not even resemble with maturity. hence the amazing pet shop transformers.

:) Hits the imaginary "LIKE" button

[Leema]

Different breeds have different prices and I think is mostly due to their popularity. Some breeds average around $300-$600, while some breeds average $2000-$3000.

In my breed, the average is $1000-$1500, and I sell my puppies within that average. I don't differentiate costs for 'show' vs 'pet', male vs female, colours, time of year, etc. To me, a puppy takes me the same amount of work, regardless of these factors, and so I see no reason to differentiate price. In fact, I find it a little suspect when breeders do differentiate price.

If you are finding a huge price variation in the same breed, then it's probably the difference between ethical registered breeders and 'back yard' breeders.

[Llante]

When things go right a breeder can make a nice profit.

BUT woe betide any who admit that, or puppy farmer comes flying in all directions.

So we are supposed to be pious breeding for the good of the breed and at a loss if you want to avoid the 'unethical' tag and all that hate comming with it.

as for costs. Some have a litter and dont intend to breed again and i have seen some amazing quality pups go for a joke of a price.

Equally I have seen pups at the same price that once they achieve adulthood, leave the owners wondering "what breed is that" some people simply advertise a litter as the breed it looks like most, baby puppies can pass for something they will not even resemble with maturity. hence the amazing pet shop transformers.

I can understand this on a different level, the way our society is we almost witch hunt again. So thank you for throwing in a clarification on why prices do vary.

Still very interested if different states have better/cheaper vet care/registration fees etc. My friend bought from a 'super' breeder in VIC for $500 about 2 years ago (i think) maybe I'm behind in the times, and things are getting more expensive.

Please don't mistake me, my husbands a health professional, we own our home (well the bank owns most of it), we have 2 children in reputable schools. I find the more money you have to manage the more you keep your hawk eyes on it to make sure you can sustain a lifestyle. It's the only reason I haven't bought a horse yet because we estimated around $15000 in the first 10 years, and we couldn't sustain it. I don't ever want to feel like i'm in the position to comprimise our spendings or have to part with a pet to make ends meet. If that makes sense. x

[Llante]

Different breeds have different prices and I think is mostly due to their popularity. Some breeds average around $300-$600, while some breeds average $2000-$3000.

In my breed, the average is $1000-$1500, and I sell my puppies within that average. I don't differentiate costs for 'show' vs 'pet', male vs female, colours, time of year, etc. To me, a puppy takes me the same amount of work, regardless of these factors, and so I see no reason to differentiate price. In fact, I find it a little suspect when breeders do differentiate price.

If you are finding a huge price variation in the same breed, then it's probably the difference between ethical registered breeders and 'back yard' breeders.

Thank you for this :)

[asal]

Then you have the breeders who probably bred the parents of the outstanding pups mentioned before, but their price is more along the lines of the quality pups.

It takes a certain amount of luck, and a lot of reasearch so you know what you are looking at before you buy.

many of the highst prices are good ones, but then I have seen one a chap paid 3,000 for, guaranteed tea cup chi.

well it was when he bought it. n it fitted very neatly in a teacup.

except the breeder neglected to mention it was probably lucky if it was 5 weeks old at the time though. fortunately it survived. even if it grew as big as a cat , as the breeder explained, IT was a TEACUP when he sold it....

Edited October 13, 2012 by asal

[Rebanne]

Still very interested if different states have better/cheaper vet care/registration fees etc. My friend bought from a 'super' breeder in VIC for $500 about 2 years ago (i think) maybe I'm behind in the times, and things are getting more expensive.

What's a super breeder?

Different prices for different states cause not all breeds are available in all states. Then you have to factor in transport costs. I'd expect to pay around $1000 for a good, well reared, from health tested parents, puppy of reasonably popular breeds. Get into the rarer breeds or the ones that need c-sections etc you can start to look at more expense.

[asal]

what your best bet is, learn what problems are in the breed so you at least know what you dont want in a pup.

word of mouth is the best , if you see a dog you really like, ask the owner, where did you get it.

Ive ended up with some of the best dogs that way.

once I was riding past a property, saw an amazing dog, asked was he registered and did they stand him at stud and not only ended up owning the dog, but discovering his dad was my all time favourite of his breed.

[Kavik]

One of my breeds ranges from $500 - $900 and the other from $1500 - $2500. I am looking for something rather more specific though than just a nice pet, and am doing lots of research into which breeders may have the temperament traits I am after, which in the breed I am mostly researching is not likely to correlate to price.

Vet prices vary depending on location, more expensive areas tend to have higher vet fees.

[Llante]

Still very interested if different states have better/cheaper vet care/registration fees etc. My friend bought from a 'super' breeder in VIC for $500 about 2 years ago (i think) maybe I'm behind in the times, and things are getting more expensive.

What's a super breeder?

Different prices for different states cause not all breeds are available in all states. Then you have to factor in transport costs. I'd expect to pay around $1000 for a good, well reared, from health tested parents, puppy of reasonably popular breeds. Get into the rarer breeds or the ones that need c-sections etc you can start to look at more expense.

Sorry she called it a 'super' breeder because they were supposed to be high show quality dogs. I should find the name of the breeder.

This is all starting to make a lot more sense. And I am thankful for the real world aspect of it all. So from what I read, excluding possible c-section and stud fees, the cost of a pup usually includes several DNA testing, vet checks for parents and pups, quality nutrition for all, and (most of the time) guarentees on the pups health an wellbeing for x amount of time? So therefore, a pup worth around $500 may not have had the amount of testing, vet checks done? Whilst a pup worth $1500+ may have all the health checks etc done with extra for special colours/show qualities.

So in a semi-conclusion, I should be searching in a mid range between the two and question the breeder about specific tests and nutrition the parents and pups have had, then make a decision from there.

Am I on the right path?

[asal]

Thank you for your replies. I know this forum is specific for purebreds and I have found a miriad of information for my PB Golden Retriever when I rescued him. When I did though, I never really cared about his background, I understand his hip scores will not be fantastic as I am pretty sure he was a petstore dog IE puppymill dog, but we love him regardless and couldn't not take him in.

So going from a "i don't care what you are, we will love you anyway" to a "you have to be of highest pedigree" feels a bit strange. But again, I am new to this, and trying to do my research. I worry about what will happen to those poor dogs who will end up in pounds or PTS because they didn't meet the high standards. Is there a middle ground?

Also before I posted I read the Sick Puppy link and can understand where you are coming from. Maybe adopting an older puppy/dog is less work than a sick puppy. I can understand with infants how quickly they get unwell. Ok, so things are making a bit more sense. It's a strange relationship breeders seem to have with families. Never seen anything like it before.

know what you mean, some are incredibly nice, some give u the impression, pass the money thanks.goodbye.

others you feel so intimadated because you might not be good enough to be trusted with a pup. yet all three could hve awesome dogs.

n equally all three could have transformers. you really do need to do your own homework and not just rely on how nice or not the people are, or seem.

I still laugh at the two international judges who told me to keep x pup as he was the best prospect to run on. he turned out to be the worst off type pup at maturity in the litter. the one i adored that none of them liked at 8 weeks , turned out to be a stunner. so there is also great variation in a single litter and the variations at that age are very tiny but change and morph amazingly as they grow too.

although to a pet person I expect what I see as big diferences they would be saying something "but all chinese(doberman's,rottie's,cavalier's,chihuahua's beagle')s look the same"

but over the decades, somthing ive always noticed, a pet home buyer almost with out exception zeros in on the puppy i think is the best in the litter.

judges i wonder are soo looking at the details they forget to look at the overall picture. when really that is what we want, the overall balanced pup.

any takers on that thought?

[Rebanne]

Still very interested if different states have better/cheaper vet care/registration fees etc. My friend bought from a 'super' breeder in VIC for $500 about 2 years ago (i think) maybe I'm behind in the times, and things are getting more expensive.

What's a super breeder?

Different prices for different states cause not all breeds are available in all states. Then you have to factor in transport costs. I'd expect to pay around $1000 for a good, well reared, from health tested parents, puppy of reasonably popular breeds. Get into the rarer breeds or the ones that need c-sections etc you can start to look at more expense.

Sorry she called it a 'super' breeder because they were supposed to be high show quality dogs. I should find the name of the breeder.

This is all starting to make a lot more sense. And I am thankful for the real world aspect of it all. So from what I read, excluding possible c-section and stud fees, the cost of a pup usually includes several DNA testing, vet checks for parents and pups, quality nutrition for all, and (most of the time) guarentees on the pups health an wellbeing for x amount of time? So therefore, a pup worth around $500 may not have had the amount of testing, vet checks done? Whilst a pup worth $1500+ may have all the health checks etc done with extra for special colours/show qualities.

So in a semi-conclusion, I should be searching in a mid range between the two and question the breeder about specific tests and nutrition the parents and pups have had, then make a decision from there.

Am I on the right path?

ok, not all breeds have several different DNA tests available. My breed has one.I don't know what beagles should be tested for, if in fact there are tests. You need to do some more research on the breed, read breeders websites, see if there is a state club for beagles. Google for overseas kennels. See what, if any health issues are talked about, find out if there are any tests available for these possible health issues. If there is a health issue but no test what are the breeders doing to combat the issue.

Be aware that there are a lot of problems that can occur that have no testing for and these issues occur right across the full spectrum of dogs including crossbreeds. My breed can suffer from bloat but so can every other largish deep chested breed. Hip and elbow dysplaysia is very rare in my breed but it's not to say it can't happen.

[cowanbree]

When I am looking for a puppy price is one of the last things I consider. Of far more importance is what health testing has the breeder done, what sort of temperaments do they produce and how are their puppies raised. The purchase price is a one off cost while the other criteria's will affect the puppy throughout its life.

For a breed such as a beagle I would expect to pay anywhere between 800-1,200 for a well bred, well socialised puppy from a reputable breeder

[mr.mister]

Good info here from experienced people.

Apologies for comparing living creatures to objects, but I find that this is a pretty good analogy:

Say you're looking for a new car. Obviously, there's tonnes of choices around - private seller, used car dealer, dealership etc. You come across two cars you like. One is from a dealership that offers a roadworthy certificate, full service history, warranty, RACV check and includes registration. The other car, although the same make, is at a shady used car dealership. Although it looks to be in okay condition, there's no warranty, no service history, no roadworthy and is unregistered. However, it's considerably cheaper than the first car you looked at.

Which would you choose? For me, it would be the first car all the way.

As for differing prices in different states, I don't know anything about that. I do know that there is a heavy concentration of 'breeders' of a certain breed in QLD who produce 'rare' different coloured puppies at inflated prices, but that's not related to Beagles in any way.

[Llante]

Good info here from experienced people.

Apologies for comparing living creatures to objects, but I find that this is a pretty good analogy:

Say you're looking for a new car. Obviously, there's tonnes of choices around - private seller, used car dealer, dealership etc. You come across two cars you like. One is from a dealership that offers a roadworthy certificate, full service history, warranty, RACV check and includes registration. The other car, although the same make, is at a shady used car dealership. Although it looks to be in okay condition, there's no warranty, no service history, no roadworthy and is unregistered. However, it's considerably cheaper than the first car you looked at.

Which would you choose? For me, it would be the first car all the way.

As for differing prices in different states, I don't know anything about that. I do know that there is a heavy concentration of 'breeders' of a certain breed in QLD who produce 'rare' different coloured puppies at inflated prices, but that's not related to Beagles in any way.

Oh wow, this is a great analogy! See my husband is all about the finances, i'm all about the love. To me, it doesn't matter as long as we bond together, my husband, not so much. He's the mathamatical angel on my shoulder telling me to be sensible about my decisions. I think we balance eachother out to an extent, or I would've adopted more than we could've been able to care for.

I appreciate all this information. Although I did a lot of research, I must've been looking for the wrong things. Well, I narrowed down breeds, so now to narrow down on the breeder.

Is it presumptious to contact a breeder regardless of litters available or due? To check them out and find a breeder we like? I assume that if no litters were due that would make for a long wait time though. I was hoping for Feb/March. (Well to be honest if we had the money i'd have one yesterday!)

[dancinbcs]

DNA tests available for Beagle breeding stock are:

Pyruvate Kinase Deficiency

Enzyme deficiency (anaemia)

Primary Open Angle Glaucoma

Both with an autosomal recessive mode of inheritance so at least one parent has to be clear/normal for each condition.

The parents should also have annual specialist eye examinations as they can get a variety of other eye conditions that there is no DNA test for. I have no idea if they hip score Beagles or not. If you google health problems in Beagles you will find lists of possible but reasonably rare health issues. Every breeder should know about them and be able to tell you if there has been any cases in the near relatives. Breeders need to be aware of what may be lurking and be prepared to discuss this with buyers.

In most breeds there should be no difference in price for colour but in Beagles I believe they do charge more for the tri colour ones and less for the less popular lemon/white.