minimax Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 (edited) I think everyone is getting a bit pedantic with this "but some must stay in the vial therefor we're not getting a full dose anyway" etc. If you split and you're happy to keep doing so - go for it. You're not going to be arrested for doing it! But you also have no grounds for complain if you dog dies from a tick. Edited October 17, 2012 by minimax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 The important thing to remember is, that if one person is happy with a risk taking bhaviour, then fine. But recommending it as ok for others is a different thing. And the DPI prosecute off label use regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everythings Shiny Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 The important thing to remember is, that if one person is happy with a risk taking bhaviour, then fine. But recommending it as ok for others is a different thing. And the DPI prosecute off label use regularly. And the DPI are cracking down, so I wouldn't be advertising the fact that vets have recommended splitting of vials as they can face big fines etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparassidae Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Why are people keen to reference websites that advise splitting, when it has already been pointed out that splitting may be an offence? Splitting vials is "off label use" which certainly is an offence unless under prescription or permit. It's not that simple, and the DPI has never actually prosecuted it. A law is just text on paper till it's enforced. ---- There will be no research on this - it is chemistry. The two ingredients literally do not mix together - they will always separate. That said, chemistry and physics would also indicate that if you properly shake the tube, and extract portions of the liquid immediately you will draw out a mixture roughly equal to the original proportions. Test it yourself using oil and water, shake it hard, extract some immediately - you'll come out with roughly the same proportions as the overall mix even though oil is completely non-soluble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiesha09 Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 Why are people keen to reference websites that advise splitting, when it has already been pointed out that splitting may be an offence? Splitting vials is "off label use" which certainly is an offence unless under prescription or permit. It's not that simple, and the DPI has never actually prosecuted it. A law is just text on paper till it's enforced. ---- There will be no research on this - it is chemistry. The two ingredients literally do not mix together - they will always separate. That said, chemistry and physics would also indicate that if you properly shake the tube, and extract portions of the liquid immediately you will draw out a mixture roughly equal to the original proportions. Test it yourself using oil and water, shake it hard, extract some immediately - you'll come out with roughly the same proportions as the overall mix even though oil is completely non-soluble. I don't actually use spot ons but does it say to shake before use then? In the past I did use them and can't recall it saying anything like that. Personally I wouldn't split them and would just use the one from the relevant weight range for each dog. I just wouldn't take the risk for the sake of a few dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverStar-Aura Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 The problem isn't only saving "a couple of dollars" kiesha09. I own two dogs, both on Advantix, and one uses the small dog tubes and the other the medium dog and it is VERY costly. When using the correct doseges fortnightly for ticks the costs do add up, however, I wouldn't risk my pets' health for the sake of saving any money. I live in a high tick area and would rather know my dogs are getting the full benefits of the treatment. You can't put a cost on a dog's life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 As promised...here is the answer I received from Bayer.... The active ingredients are distributed throughout the Advantix liquid. There is no instruction on the vials to shake before use. However, the product is registered for use as one (or 2) tube (s) per animal according to their body weight to avoid under or over dosing. We don?t have any information about Frontline. Have a great day. Kind Regards, Michelle Chandler Technical Support Consultant Bayer Animal Health Bayer Australia Ltd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) As promised...here is the answer I received from Bayer.... The active ingredients are distributed throughout the Advantix liquid. There is no instruction on the vials to shake before use. However, the product is registered for use as one (or 2) tube (s) per animal according to their body weight to avoid under or over dosing. We don?t have any information about Frontline. Have a great day. Kind Regards, Michelle Chandler Technical Support Consultant Bayer Animal Health Bayer Australia Ltd Right ... one or two tubes per animal ... not one or two animals per tube. Edited October 19, 2012 by minimax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayla1 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 As promised...here is the answer I received from Bayer.... The active ingredients are distributed throughout the Advantix liquid. There is no instruction on the vials to shake before use. However, the product is registered for use as one (or 2) tube (s) per animal according to their body weight to avoid under or over dosing. We don?t have any information about Frontline. Have a great day. Kind Regards, Michelle Chandler Technical Support Consultant Bayer Animal Health Bayer Australia Ltd Good to know. Even though I don't use it, I know plenty of people that do split doses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 As promised...here is the answer I received from Bayer.... The active ingredients are distributed throughout the Advantix liquid. There is no instruction on the vials to shake before use. However, the product is registered for use as one (or 2) tube (s) per animal according to their body weight to avoid under or over dosing. We don?t have any information about Frontline. Have a great day. Kind Regards, Michelle Chandler Technical Support Consultant Bayer Animal Health Bayer Australia Ltd So it is reasonably evenly distributed. I understand they of course have it registered to be used a certain way and that is what they will tell you to do because that is how it is registered. To me however it tells me the ingredients are not ingredients that will not mix at all and are repellent of one another, therefore if the dose is split the ingredients shouel be split reasonably uniformly. OF course using the product off label is not recommended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 The ingredients are mixed so thoroughly, that as she says, they don't even give instructions to shake it :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/viewtop/inforce/act+182+1989+FIRST+0+N Stock Medicines Act 1989 No 182 39 Use of registered stock medicine contrary to use instructions (1) A person must not use a registered stock medicine in a manner that is contrary to the use instructions. Maximum penalty: 200 penalty units or, for an offence by a corporation, 400 penalty units. (2) It is a defence to a prosecution for an offence against subsection (1) if the defendant establishes that the defendant was authorised by section 39A or 39B to use the registered stock medicine in the manner concerned. (3) It is a defence to a prosecution for an offence against subsection (1) that: (a) there were instructions for the use of the stock medicine on the label attached to the package of the stock medicine at the time of the commission of the offence, and (b) the person, at that time, did not know, and did not have reasonable grounds for suspecting, that those instructions were not (either wholly or partially) the use instructions. (4) It is not a defence to a prosecution for an offence against subsection (1) that the defendant failed to read the use instructions for the stock medicine concerned. It may seem petty to some, and that's fine. But again, advising others to do things that may constitute an offence is a different story. DPI do prosecute off label use of agvet chemicals. edit for link Edited October 19, 2012 by Alyosha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 And as another thought - don't forget that this site is privately owned and managed and people shouldn't be using it to potentially recommend illegal activity. Again, may sound like hysterics, until people start throwing lawsuits... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) You think this is the first time this has ever been discussed on DOL? Go to google and search "splitting advantix" then go to the "more results from DOL forums" whereby there is a 10 pages of the same thing being discussed. Maybe this is the lucky round to win a lawsuit after about 5 years of discussion Edited October 19, 2012 by donatella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparassidae Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 DPI do prosecute off label use of agvet chemicals. edit for link I can't find a single case where someone has been charged for splitting flea/tick treatments. I may be looking in the wrong place though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 DPI do prosecute off label use of agvet chemicals. edit for link I can't find a single case where someone has been charged for splitting flea/tick treatments. I may be looking in the wrong place though? Me neither. But if they do decide to go after me for splitting Advantix, then with the money I have saved, I will be able to pay the fine. I really think they have better things to do, like prosecuting livestock producers for the inappropriate use of livestock chemicals. And who knows, maybe vets already have the authority from Bayer to advise on the use of Advantix as they in their wisdom see fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everythings Shiny Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Its the people recommending that drugs be used incorrectly that are liable. Thats who the DPI can sue/fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bella's Mum Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) I have been splitting Advantix for some time now.....at the suggestion of my Vet at the time. He did say that Bayer would not approve this action but in his opinion there was no issue with it at all. To date, I have not had any issues. I should also add that it is his opinion that it is better for his clients to protect their pets with this coverage than for them to not buy any due to the cost of buying multiple packs. I am not sure if it was a regular practice of his or not. EDIT If it is not appropriate for this comment to be posted here...ADMIN, please delete Edited October 25, 2012 by Bella's Mum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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