Shaking After Eating

[RallyValley]

Ok, before I get jumped on I have talked to a vet about this. I was just seeing if there are any other possible views.

Twice in the last fortnight after Toby has had chicken mince and VAN mix he has started to shake about 20-30 mins after eating and one time threw up. After the first instance I took him to the vet who could not hear anything strange in his gut, no enlarged lymph nodes etc. The second one happened last night, he didn't throw up but was shaking for about half an hour.

These were different batches of meat, my other dog ate the same meat with no adverse reaction. The first time Zora and I were away from home for the evening - the morning Toby had eaten the meat with no issues so we though it might be a stress type thing. He has been on VAN and meat for a few months and gets a mixture of high quality meats picked up from a local source. At the same time I get the meat for myself I get it for 2 friends and my brother and none of their dogs have reacted this either.

The second instance there was no out of the ordinary activities.

Lately Toby has been quite picky with food and has stopped having breakfast (usually kibble), as in, he no longer comes out at breakfast time or if he does he does not eat. This is the same kibble he has been on for a year. He has recently lost some weight and at one point we became concerned as it seemed he suddenly lost a lot of weight and we were struggling to keep condition on him, however we upped his food some and he has gained the condition back and is not loosing TOO much now he is hardly eating.

Toby is also a special mental case and has recently been acting like he was scared of his dinner bowl (so we fed him on a paper plate) and then we fed him outside from his bowl (because he was only scared of it in the garage) and gradually worked it back inside so now he seems to be fine with it again. Since it had only happened the once the vet thought it may have been a mental thing...

Here is Toby at his thinnest in June:

And a recent pic:

[Weasels]

Sorry nothing helpful to add but I just wanted to sent good vibes to dear Toby

[RallyValley]

Thanks Weasels. :) He's still acting his normal self but I would hate to be overlooking something.

[persephone]

My first reaction was pain .

eating sometimes = pain.. so the bowl could be suspect .

kibble may have hurt ..so not keen on kibble

I am thinking quickly ,.and what I come up with is maybe his oesophagus cramps..or his stomach muscle, or the valve in between? Kibble ,hard bits, or big gulps of meat + a cramp would be VERY uncomfortable ..and could explain the shaking ....

[JulesP]

Get his liver checked. My dog was shaking after meals due to toxins in the blood because her liver wasn't working properly. Liver issues would also explain the weight issue, fussiness and throwing up.

[RallyValley]

Pers he does eat very fast so it's possible some goes down the wrong way and he gets cramps that hurts him. I will look into that kibble may hurt him, the strange thing is it's very inconsistent, at times he will refuse a meal (he has done this with meat and with kibble) and others he will eat like he's starving.

JulesP I also thought liver but at over 3 is he a bit old to start showing symptoms now?

[Stitch]

My girl with IBD did exactly the same thing initially. With her pain = shaking legs plus when she feels sick she doesn't want to eat. This is because the gut has become inflamed.

IBD first reared its ugly head when I was feeding my lot with VAN and minced chicken frames. Everyone was OK on it except for her and for quite a while I didn't realise what was happening, so I have always felt guilty that I didn't pick it up sooner but I had never had a dog with IBD before. She would vomit every now and then initially, not all the time and I couldn't pick anything that I was doing differently but it was just that she was gradually getting worse.

In hindsight I would say the easiest way to tell if it is something you can control would be to only feed say Royal Canin Hypoallergenic dry food ie. just buy a small bag from the vet and see if only feeding that makes the problem go away. You should cut out all treats, bones, chicken frames, dairy etc. if you currently feed them and only feed the RC Hypo.

I found with IBD there will be a 'trigger' food, my girl absolutely can't eat beef liver but she is OK with the chicken liver that is in the RC Hypo. food but it is hydrolysed. There are other foods I now know she can't tolerate eg. bone marrow, dairy and oils too as they will set her off. Recently it got so bad she was hospitalised twice and now all she can eat is the RC Hypo. so it is something that can gradually get worse.

Of course it may not be IBD with your boy, it may be one of the miriad of things that dogs can get but it is something to bear in mind. Other things it may be is parasites or a gut infection. Perhaps a course of Flagyl might help but remember the Royal Canin Hypoallergenic, we have found it to be the absolute best for dogs with gut problems.

[wuffles]

I can't help either, however, one of my dogs suddenly developed a fear of, well... eating. He wouldn't eat out of his bowl, or take biscuits from our hand, but would still eat off the ground in a different spot (ie. inside the house). If you put his bowl down with food he'd back away from it looking frightened. He gradually got better over the course of about 3-4 weeks and we haven't had any issues since. We (and the vet) actually concluded in his case that he had most likely been stung by a bee/insect while eating, as the day it started I did notice quite a few bees hanging around.

He is also a bit special, so I think for some dogs it doesn't take much to build that negative association

Good luck finding answers

[noisymina]

It is quite possible for an animal (or human) to develop an allergy or intolerance at any time - even to something eaten all their lives!

IBD as described by Stitch with a "trigger" food may, I think, be related.

I don't see why age would preclude liver problems (or any other). Certainly it reduces the possibility - but does not eliminate it.

Eg Kaisie ate Roo ok for quite a while - then later started chucking it and anything containing it.

I don't think VAN agrees with all dogs. I did get some once - many years ago - and would not use it again. Personal opinion. It may well have changed formula since then - don't know.

[JulesP]

Shunts can be acquired as well as the dog being born with them. There are other liver conditions too. The symptoms can be a bit vague until the disease is quite advanced. It is an easy thing to rule out with a simple blood test. I think a general blood test is a good place to start looking for answers.

[megan_]

I think Jules' dog developed liver issues later in life?

As pers said, he could associate food = pain, bowl = food and therefore show fear towards the bowl.

How long do you soak the VAN for? Is the mince pet mince (which would be mostly bone) or actual chicken mince (100& meat)? VAN contains calcium to replace bone, so they shouldn't get bone and VAN at once. If it has bone in it it just might be too gritty for him if he has a sensitive digestive system? Chicken might also be too fatty, have you tried kangaroo?

[JulesP]

I think Jules' dog developed liver issues later in life?

No she was born with the condition. She was almost one when she nearly died from it.

[RallyValley]

In hindsight I would say the easiest way to tell if it is something you can control would be to only feed say Royal Canin Hypoallergenic dry food ie. just buy a small bag from the vet and see if only feeding that makes the problem go away. You should cut out all treats, bones, chicken frames, dairy etc. if you currently feed them and only feed the RC Hypo.

I found with IBD there will be a 'trigger' food, my girl absolutely can't eat beef liver but she is OK with the chicken liver that is in the RC Hypo. food but it is hydrolysed. There are other foods I now know she can't tolerate eg. bone marrow, dairy and oils too as they will set her off. Recently it got so bad she was hospitalised twice and now all she can eat is the RC Hypo. so it is something that can gradually get worse.

Of course it may not be IBD with your boy, it may be one of the miriad of things that dogs can get but it is something to bear in mind. Other things it may be is parasites or a gut infection. Perhaps a course of Flagyl might help but remember the Royal Canin Hypoallergenic, we have found it to be the absolute best for dogs with gut problems.

Hmmm if it was IBD would Toby have diarrhea and/or vomiting quite often? His stools are fine and he has only vomited twice in the last few months (both in the last fortnight), despite being fed the same diet for several months.. It's not really that often.

I can't help either, however, one of my dogs suddenly developed a fear of, well... eating. He wouldn't eat out of his bowl, or take biscuits from our hand, but would still eat off the ground in a different spot (ie. inside the house). If you put his bowl down with food he'd back away from it looking frightened. He gradually got better over the course of about 3-4 weeks and we haven't had any issues since. We (and the vet) actually concluded in his case that he had most likely been stung by a bee/insect while eating, as the day it started I did notice quite a few bees hanging around.

He is also a bit special, so I think for some dogs it doesn't take much to build that negative association

Good luck finding answers

We suspect that the bowl might have clanged if he knocked it over with his paw by mistake, or something like that, since Toby is frightened of loud noises. He seems to be mostly over it now though...

Shunts can be acquired as well as the dog being born with them. There are other liver conditions too. The symptoms can be a bit vague until the disease is quite advanced. It is an easy thing to rule out with a simple blood test. I think a general blood test is a good place to start looking for answers.

I've been in touch with my vet to let her know about the second episode, waiting to hear back, as she did say bloods were the next step. Liver issues were my first thought too

I think Jules' dog developed liver issues later in life?

As pers said, he could associate food = pain, bowl = food and therefore show fear towards the bowl.

How long do you soak the VAN for? Is the mince pet mince (which would be mostly bone) or actual chicken mince (100& meat)? VAN contains calcium to replace bone, so they shouldn't get bone and VAN at once. If it has bone in it it just might be too gritty for him if he has a sensitive digestive system? Chicken might also be too fatty, have you tried kangaroo?

VAN is soaked overnight (as per instructions). I have tried kangaroo before but he won't touch it.