Archerlove Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 There seems to be a lot of media interest in Pet Shops v Breeders in news at the moment. I am interested to know if registered breeders sell ther puppies to pet shops at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 (edited) Yes, in Sydney I believe there is a registered breeder doing this and I'd like to find out who they are. I recently had one of their purebred puppies surrendered to me, sold from a litter in a Chatswood petshop - purchased for $$$. Owner had for a couple of months and then got a job overseas .... Owner knew nothing about the breed either. Edited October 3, 2012 by dogmad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I don't , won't and never will but sadly there are ANKC Registered Breeders who do. Not only do they sell to local pet shops, they also export entire litters overseas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda K Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 under our code of ethics for GCCFV, we are not allowed to sell kittens to pet shops, not that I need this to stop me doing that, it is something I would never contemplate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 under our code of ethics for GCCFV, we are not allowed to sell kittens to pet shops, not that I need this to stop me doing that, it is something I would never contemplate. Yes, its the same here however it still does not stop some doing it anyway. They just sell them to the pet shop without papers & hope no one will find out. Sometimes someone does find out but there is nothing to be done about it. Hard to prove. Some breeders don't care, others think there is nothing wrong with this. The pet shops will always source their animals from somewhere as long as they are allowed to sell them. My babies are always desexed before going to suitable selected pet homes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdie Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 There were some months back 2 litters of the same breed at 2 local pet stores in my area.When i enquired if they did have pedigree papers as stated on their enclosure i was told they were from a registered breeder and they would need to give me their contact details if i wanted to purchase one of the pups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 There seems to be a lot of media interest in Pet Shops v Breeders in news at the moment. I am interested to know if registered breeders sell ther puppies to pet shops at all. Can you point to some articles? I've not seen any, unless you mean pet shops vs puppyfarms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archerlove Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 There seems to be a lot of media interest in Pet Shops v Breeders in news at the moment. I am interested to know if registered breeders sell ther puppies to pet shops at all. Can you point to some articles? I've not seen any, unless you mean pet shops vs puppyfarms? Yes ,what I meant was there is a lot in media, esp Facebook atm about puppies from petshops encouraging and supporting a system which maynot be in best interests of the dogs involved etc. Most people will only buy dogs from breeder or from the pounds but stil I find people who buy from petshops despite suggestions they donot.I have been upset recently to find a dear friend,highly intelligent who actually bought a second petshop pup just because she could not wait on the breeders waiting list.She insists it was from a proper breeder who sold to petshop.She may well be correct but I was under impression registerd breeders didnot sell to petshops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Some registered breeders do sell to pet shops, although the majority of pups sold in pet shops are not from registered breeders. Selling to pet shops demonstrates all too well the ethics of those breeders who do, and I wonder whether it is better to buy a pet shop pup bred by a byb, or bred by an unethical, uncaring registered breeder, who although not flaunting the rules of their CC are in fact flaunting the ethos of the CC and all registered breeders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Registered breeder sell puppies to pet shops in a couple of different ways. One is up front as they are able to do and they supply papers or they sell without saying they are registered. I know a registered breeder who regularly picks up puppies of 4 different breeds that Im aware of and takes them over the border and sell s them to a pet shop and no one ever knows the registered breeder ever had them. There is also a dealer who buys litters of registered puppies and no export certificates from the CC are ever issued as they leave for asian countries and another who buys registered puppies and they apply for an export certificate via the CC and they land in a pet shop over seas. Puppies that dont pass the vet check due to a hernia or heart murmur etc are sold off to a pet shop in the western suburbs of Sydney as the breeder is on their way home with no papers. New people see they are able to sell puppies to pet shops via the Code of ethics for the CC and don't understand the issues. When this was first introduced in NSW there were big one page ads run for months telling breeders they could sell registered puppies to PIAA pet shops and they were encouraged to do so. The export agent who purchases litter lots of puppies for an overseas pet shop often placed ads in the Journal. The propoganda that has become gospel distributed for some time now has an impact on some of this. I witnessed a very well respected registered breeder negotiate with a dealer to take all of the puppies in her litter other than the one she wanted to keep knowing they would end up in a pet shop chain with a poor reputation. She took $50 each for them - her puppies would sell for $1000 plus if she sold them herself - so I asked why. Answer because she couldnt advertise them because someone would see the ad and everyone knows what they say about breeders who advertise. Then of course there is the fear of having your reputation affected if something goes wrong, some genetic issue turns up or the dog ends up in rescue and the pressure of having to be responsible for the dog its whole life. If we are to do anything about the breeders selling puppies to pet shops regardless of whether they are registered or not we have to look at the reward the breeder gets apart from money when they do this - because every single one of them could get much more for their puppies if they personally sold them without going to a pet shop. Clearly its not just about the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruin Maniac Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 As an outsider and onlooker, I would have thought that no breeder who cares about the future of their puppies would sell to a pet shop. A pet shop clerk will sell a dog to anyone that looks like they might spend the money on it. Nevermind their living situation, history with animals and lifestyle. This, as you all would know, can be the equivalent of or even literally a death sentence for the puppies that are sold. No dog lover would risk that. I've occasionally stopped to watch puppies in pet shops (because, while pet shops and puppy mills disgust me, puppies are pretty difficult not to "coo" over) and been approached by clerks who explain that the dogs are "purebred with papers" and came from "a good breeder who just doesn't have time to sell the litter". This is a commonly spun tale a certain chain which recently had a huge parvo outbreak. A good breeder should have planned well in advance of a litter, and in the case of unexpected circumstances should also have contacts in the dog world who could help them find suitable homes for their puppies. I just cannot see a breeder with any self-respect and love for their dogs surrendering the puppies they breed to an unknown fate. It doesn't make any sense. So while I imagine registered breeders do sell to pet shops, that breeder probably shouldn't be registered. The qualification means nothing if they aren't responsible or ethical. So the debate, in my opinion, is pointless. I know that when my research is done and I start applying for dogs, I am going to have to leap through hoops for breeders or fosters. I'm probably going to be rejected by some, others may give me a chance along with a hell of a lot of homework to do (ongoing contact, proof of care, etc.). I am nervous about it, but a good rescue or breeder wants what's best for their dogs and so do I. Personally, I think no potential dog owner who has done any real research into dog owning would consider a pet shop dog either. They are just a disaster all 'round :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brookestar Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 There are good and bad breeders with everything. But any who sell to pet shops are not good. I find it pathetic that any pet shops can be seen to be as suitable. It should be illegal to sell dogs in pet shops. Personally I refuse to go to any pet shop that sells dogs. Dogs do not belong in those tiny cages. And try toilet training a puppy that has been raised to toilet where it sleeps. At an absolute minimum the law should require all dogs sold from pet shops to be desexed first. It is required for those from shelters, who do do some basic checks, ask questions, give advice about different breeds, individual dogs, etc. No such minimum requirements occur in pet shops. I certainly know of a breeder selling to a pet shop, but they do so, as they would never allow anyone to see the parents, or how they are being kept. They just churned them out each and every cycle, but only registered every second one to get some extra money from them. The pet shop was paying big bucks for them and selling them off at an even higher inflated price. The council and RSPCA knew, but the way the dogs were kept was just meeting the minimum standards, so nothing could be done, other than giving advice and recommendations, which they could not care less about. They reported them to the kennel club but nothing was done. I once saw a pet shop sell a group of overseas students a bordie collie puppy. The girls had been quite responsible, saying they needed one that would not need much exercise and would not grow any larger, as they were living in a small flat. They were reassured that this breed is really small, requires very little exercise and would be ideal for a small flat!!!!! The lengths that pet shops will go to are beyond me. And of course they keep backyard breeders in business. They take on dogs are riddled with worms and fleas, and barely alive, give them treatments, feed them up and then sell them at massively inflated prices. The BYB keep doing it, as they can and even if they are not paid, but most are given about $50 per dog, they still have no reason to desex the dogs or keep them apart at certain times, as they have a cheap and free way of getting rid of them and no expenses involved. Shelters would not take so kindly to such actions. I do however know people who have bought dogs from pet shops saying but at least I know they are going to a good home this way, what would happen to them if I didn't take them. And while it may be a valid point it only keeps them in business and that defeats the whole purpose. There are thousands of dogs desperate for new homes in shelters if they want to rescue them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asal Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 (edited) As usual too many assumptions over not only the ethics of whoever bred the pup at the pet shop or that the actual breeder even knows their pup has ended up there. Steve has some really good reasons, I know ive had the thought myself since all real witch hunt hate is now so obvious. and it takes nothing to get you black listed either. my name went down the gurgler some time ago when one of the ultra loud mouthed ethicals found a puppy in a pet shop at mittagong complete with registration papers. by the time I found out it was sold, but by checking my records and the registered name was its pet name as well, learned that its buyer had been unable to keep it due to some sort of family breakup and instead of calling me, another famly member took it to the pet shop. my reputation became mud with that creature and thus began the sequence of events that eventually led to stringys ordeal. (to then discover the real power 'so few here belive they have' our government has given this charity) Hey a found a photo of string I didnt realise I still have Snowy is a white/chocolate, hence the chocolate nose. Stringy is blue fawn, Dancer is gold and white. . Edited October 6, 2012 by asal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruin Maniac Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Of course there is a difference between a dog who has been sold buy a buyer, unbeknownst to the breeder, to a pet shop and a breeder who actively offers litters to pet shops. I registered on this forum when I heard the story of Leo the poodle. I felt extremely sorry for the poor breeder from whom he was originally purchased, because his buyer thoughtlessly gave him away to someone who ended up being a puppy farmer. Her ordeal was almost as horrible as Leo's. I would want to know the circumstances behind the arrival of a registered puppy in a pet store before I judge, but if they were sold directly and purposefully by the breeder? I can't think of any excuses for it. If there are stories from the opposite side of the fence that can offer legitimate reasons for a registered breeder to supply pet shops, I'd be happy to read about them. I'm not blind to the perspectives of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asal Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Of course there is a difference between a dog who has been sold buy a buyer, unbeknownst to the breeder, to a pet shop and a breeder who actively offers litters to pet shops. I registered on this forum when I heard the story of Leo the poodle. I felt extremely sorry for the poor breeder from whom he was originally purchased, because his buyer thoughtlessly gave him away to someone who ended up being a puppy farmer. Her ordeal was almost as horrible as Leo's. I would want to know the circumstances behind the arrival of a registered puppy in a pet store before I judge, but if they were sold directly and purposefully by the breeder? I can't think of any excuses for it. If there are stories from the opposite side of the fence that can offer legitimate reasons for a registered breeder to supply pet shops, I'd be happy to read about them. I'm not blind to the perspectives of others. trouble is an unfortunately large percentage of people tend to be judge jury and executioner with no interest in the how or why. apparently if you are 'ethical' such things dont happen. soo if it does then case closed. I noticed how fast someone got the chop when someone decided the op was not a registered breeder, even though the op said both were registered? although where registered wasnt said. someone just today said their dogs are only registered in the working breeds not the KC and they havent been delete yet so im not sure if the rules are you can only be a member if its an AKC breeder. which the working kelpies and borders are not, weird isnt it, the real working dogs cant be shown, they have to be bench dogs n dont need to be able to do the job they were originaly evolved for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Be glad you're not in the USA on this one. The AKC not only allows pet shop sales, they facilitate them. See, eg http://www.thedogpress.com/ClubNews/AKC/PRIME-Pet-Shop-1001.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Ruin Maniac As an outsider and onlooker, I would have thought that no breeder who cares about the future of their puppies would sell to a pet shop They wouldn't!! Never. Remember, because the governing body says members can do something doesn't mean they must do it. Just sayin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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