Jess the Lab Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 True. The link would apply to most US Made premium food we discussed in this forum, but may not be for VIP which is made here. But still, when it says 'meat meal', it could legally mean anything including euthanised cats and dogs, dying, diseased or disabled farm animals (like the recent scandal, horse meat!). These are plausible example and nobody can rule that out. If the human consumables could include the recent horse meat scandal, I wonder what happens to dog food....especially it's opently legal to do so when it is declared merely as 'meat meal'. I have been told that it is illegal in in Aust. I have no reason to disbelieve the manufactures of dog foods. Horse meat in beef pie is supposed to be illegal as well :) The 'duck and meat meal' stmt is just dodgy. What's that really mean? Is this the ratio of 1% duck and 99% any meat under the sun. I give the benefit of the doubt that in this post someone know the council who help the company source the meat, but still it doesn't mean anything. 'Meat meal' literally means anything including pork or meat that your dog may be sensitive to. Also by the way, the minerals found in VIP doesn't seem to be chelated minerals. As a result it's likely the minerals will pass through the dog system instead of being absorbed. It may be legal to have horse meat in overseas products. but it is ilegal to put it in, in this country. Europe survived on horse meat during the war. They had nothing else. You may find it in imported products but not in Australian made. My daughter ate Dog in Indonesia and thought it was nice untill she was told what it was!!!!. Heck, I'm a Chinese. We eat dogs and puppies! So I've no issues with horse meat...and now I've a Labrador.....hmmm she looks tempting now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 CHELATED MINERALS Other Names: Bore Chélaté, Calcium Chélaté, Chelated Boron, Chelated Calcium, Chelated Chromium, Chelated Cobalt, Chelated Copper, Chelated Iron, Chelated Magnesium, Chelated Manganese, Chelated Molybdenum, Chelated Potassium, Chelated Selenium, Chelated Tra... See All Names Review this Treatment11 User Reviews. CHELATED MINERALS Overview Information Chelated minerals are minerals that have been combined chemically with amino acids to form “complexes.” You will see products labeled as chelated boron, chelated calcium, chelated chromium, etc. Chelated minerals are used for supporting normal growth, stabilizing bipolar disorder, building strong muscles and bones, and improving immune system function and overall health. Promoters sometimes market chelated minerals as dietary supplements that are superior to other mineral supplements, claiming chelated minerals are used more easily by the body (more bioavailable) than non-chelated minerals. But there is no evidence to support this claim. In fact, there is very little scientific information about chelated minerals. How does it work? Minerals are required for the proper growth and maintenance of the body. There is no evidence to support the claim that chelated minerals can be used by the body better than non-chelated minerals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 True. The link would apply to most US Made premium food we discussed in this forum, but may not be for VIP which is made here. But still, when it says 'meat meal', it could legally mean anything including euthanised cats and dogs, dying, diseased or disabled farm animals (like the recent scandal, horse meat!). These are plausible example and nobody can rule that out. If the human consumables could include the recent horse meat scandal, I wonder what happens to dog food....especially it's opently legal to do so when it is declared merely as 'meat meal'. I have been told that it is illegal in in Aust. I have no reason to disbelieve the manufactures of dog foods. Horse meat in beef pie is supposed to be illegal as well :) The 'duck and meat meal' stmt is just dodgy. What's that really mean? Is this the ratio of 1% duck and 99% any meat under the sun. I give the benefit of the doubt that in this post someone know the council who help the company source the meat, but still it doesn't mean anything. 'Meat meal' literally means anything including pork or meat that your dog may be sensitive to. Also by the way, the minerals found in VIP doesn't seem to be chelated minerals. As a result it's likely the minerals will pass through the dog system instead of being absorbed. It may be legal to have horse meat in overseas products. but it is ilegal to put it in, in this country. Europe survived on horse meat during the war. They had nothing else. You may find it in imported products but not in Australian made. My daughter ate Dog in Indonesia and thought it was nice untill she was told what it was!!!!. Heck, I'm a Chinese. We eat dogs and puppies! So I've no issues with horse meat...and now I've a Labrador.....hmmm she looks tempting now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Interesting point about the minerals though. I am still working through a large bag of TOTW so am not committed to changing over yet - all feedback and opinions are interesting IMO. The minerals in TOTW are all chelated minerals. So it's good. Someone said the VIP 3kg bag is about $14.89. That's very nicely priced! TOTW would be waaaaaaaaaay pricier. Have you considered a plan B? There's a promotion here on Canidae Grain Free. http://www.robbospetbarn.com.au/products/c-362/DOGS/FOOD/SUPER-PREMIUM/CANIDAE/GRAIN-FREE.aspx It works out to be cheaper than TOTW and but still pricier than VIP. My dogs have done the worst on Canidae out of all the products I have fed. And I have pretty much tried every product on the market. The BEST dog food is the one that your dog does best on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagittarian Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Interesting point about the minerals though. I am still working through a large bag of TOTW so am not committed to changing over yet - all feedback and opinions are interesting IMO. The minerals in TOTW are all chelated minerals. So it's good. Someone said the VIP 3kg bag is about $14.89. That's very nicely priced! TOTW would be waaaaaaaaaay pricier. Have you considered a plan B? There's a promotion here on Canidae Grain Free. http://www.robbospetbarn.com.au/products/c-362/DOGS/FOOD/SUPER-PREMIUM/CANIDAE/GRAIN-FREE.aspx It works out to be cheaper than TOTW and but still pricier than VIP. Canidae has too high a protein content for my liking - and TOTW is a bit cheaper :) Canidae protein levels vary from 20% in Platinum, to 40% in Sea. In between there are plenty of varieties of Canidae under 30% - this includes Grain Free Land at 25%. What also has to be considered is how much food needs to be consumed from each brand as that can markedly alter the actual protein levels that are eaten by an individual - eg if brand A is 40% protein and the dog eats 100gm a day, then 40 grams of protein. If brand B is 30% protein but the dog eats 150gm a day, then 45 grams are consumed. Sags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyWal Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Jess123 I feed my greyhounds VIP because they do well on it, it's affordable and easily sourced. After two years of purchasing premium dry foods of all brands and flavours Stan still did awful poos. Since being on this he has firm poos, much less output and looks fantastic, my vet is very impressed. I don't consider myself a bad owner because I don't feed TOTW, I feed what works for us...and Stan's bum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess the Lab Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Canidae protein levels vary from 20% in Platinum, to 40% in Sea. In between there are plenty of varieties of Canidae under 30% - this includes Grain Free Land at 25%. What also has to be considered is how much food needs to be consumed from each brand as that can markedly alter the actual protein levels that are eaten by an individual - eg if brand A is 40% protein and the dog eats 100gm a day, then 40 grams of protein. If brand B is 30% protein but the dog eats 150gm a day, then 45 grams are consumed. Sags Oh, that is strictly my control. It is not dependant on my Lab as she will eat the whole 20kg bag (and die!) whether she is in bad or good appetite. Let me assert something in this entire post. Feeding Advance or VIP to your dog doesn't imply you are a good nor bad owner. In fact I might wanna drop these overly expensive US imports to give this VIP a fair go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Interesting point about the minerals though. I am still working through a large bag of TOTW so am not committed to changing over yet - all feedback and opinions are interesting IMO. The minerals in TOTW are all chelated minerals. So it's good. Someone said the VIP 3kg bag is about $14.89. That's very nicely priced! TOTW would be waaaaaaaaaay pricier. Have you considered a plan B? There's a promotion here on Canidae Grain Free. http://www.robbospetbarn.com.au/products/c-362/DOGS/FOOD/SUPER-PREMIUM/CANIDAE/GRAIN-FREE.aspx It works out to be cheaper than TOTW and but still pricier than VIP. My dogs have done the worst on Canidae out of all the products I have fed. And I have pretty much tried every product on the market. The BEST dog food is the one that your dog does best on. I totally agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosetta Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Interesting point about the minerals though. I am still working through a large bag of TOTW so am not committed to changing over yet - all feedback and opinions are interesting IMO. The minerals in TOTW are all chelated minerals. So it's good. Someone said the VIP 3kg bag is about $14.89. That's very nicely priced! TOTW would be waaaaaaaaaay pricier. Have you considered a plan B? There's a promotion here on Canidae Grain Free. http://www.robbospetbarn.com.au/products/c-362/DOGS/FOOD/SUPER-PREMIUM/CANIDAE/GRAIN-FREE.aspx It works out to be cheaper than TOTW and but still pricier than VIP. Canidae has too high a protein content for my liking - and TOTW is a bit cheaper :) Canidae protein levels vary from 20% in Platinum, to 40% in Sea. In between there are plenty of varieties of Canidae under 30% - this includes Grain Free Land at 25%. What also has to be considered is how much food needs to be consumed from each brand as that can markedly alter the actual protein levels that are eaten by an individual - eg if brand A is 40% protein and the dog eats 100gm a day, then 40 grams of protein. If brand B is 30% protein but the dog eats 150gm a day, then 45 grams are consumed. Sags Yes I know. I was interested in a seafood grain free variety though and, from memory, the TOTW was lower in protein than the Canidae. I went for a bit lower in protein as I "add" something extra on top :) Good point about the amount that is fed being significant though. The reasons I am looking for something else is availability and kibble size - the TOTW is a bit large for small mouths IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 I gotta say I am very impressed with the VIP grain free range....including their cooked rolls. I have been trialling various dryfoods on my lot for over 6 months now trying to sort out what dry they do best on. I have tried various dogs on grain free incredibly expensive brands and also about 5 other premium brands. The only one that gave small poos, firm consistancy, as well as highly palatable for my lot was Hollistic Select. I feed BARF of an evening and I still think it is the best however....the VIP grain free dog roll was accepted readily, did not upset anyones gut and did not produce runny or soft poos, so I will be keeping one in the fridge for emergencies. I have a very choosey pup at the moment who would not eat much dryfood at all BUT she LOVES the VIP Puppy grainfree dry food. I will be trialling my lot on the VIP Adult grainfree soon and I got to say I am looking forward to saving some money. Thing that always bugged me was that some of the 'premium' high priced dry dogfoods in Australia are actually just average dogfood in their country of manufacture ie. USA. I love the idea of finally having a decent dry dogfood manufacturer in Australia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess the Lab Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Thing that always bugged me was that some of the 'premium' high priced dry dogfoods in Australia are actually just average dogfood in their country of manufacture ie. USA. I love the idea of finally having a decent dry dogfood manufacturer in Australia. Well said. And hence why some of those Science Diet, Royal Cain, Eukanabe all have low star rating but yet the price paid here in Aust is like for a royal treatment. Same with clothes such as Guess, Ralph Lauren, GAP, etc are all cheap everyday clothes in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 (edited) Thing that always bugged me was that some of the 'premium' high priced dry dogfoods in Australia are actually just average dogfood in their country of manufacture ie. USA. I love the idea of finally having a decent dry dogfood manufacturer in Australia. Well said. And hence why some of those Science Diet, Royal Cain, Eukanabe all have low star rating but yet the price paid here in Aust is like for a royal treatment. Same with clothes such as Guess, Ralph Lauren, GAP, etc are all cheap everyday clothes in the US. Jess thats right. The recent Parliamentary Inquiry into Adobe, Apple and Microsoft pricing also proves your point. And dog food doesn't seem to be any different. My guys are doing very well on VIP grain free as an occasional food (I feed raw/barf usually). Its good to be able to buy a reasonably priced Australian product Edited March 26, 2013 by westiemum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stitch Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Unfortunately the temptation is there for Australian dogfood manufacturing companies to increase their prices to match their competition because the price of premium dogfood in Australia is so abnormally high. I find it strange that there is not a great deal of different between the prices of the various 'premium' dogfoods at retailers. Sort of like buying petrol at the various petrol stations even down to the discount days!! LOL Hopefully because VIP is in the supermarket it won't become just one of the mob of high priced (mediocre quality) dry dogfoods available here. You would have to think that we could produce a reasonably priced high quality grain free dry dogfood here that wouldn't cost the earth. IMO the price of so called premium dry dogfoods in Australia is absolutely ridiculous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess the Lab Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Unfortunately the temptation is there for Australian dogfood manufacturing companies to increase their prices to match their competition because the price of premium dogfood in Australia is so abnormally high. I find it strange that there is not a great deal of different between the prices of the various 'premium' dogfoods at retailers. Sort of like buying petrol at the various petrol stations even down to the discount days!! LOL Hopefully because VIP is in the supermarket it won't become just one of the mob of high priced (mediocre quality) dry dogfoods available here. You would have to think that we could produce a reasonably priced high quality grain free dry dogfood here that wouldn't cost the earth. IMO the price of so called premium dry dogfoods in Australia is absolutely ridiculous! Aust/NZ is extremely un-populated as compared to North America. The market is so big over there and hence developing a dog food that target a mass segment is more economical than us here. Therefore, our local premium price will always be higher in order to recover the profits from less people....unless we target to export our premium food to China! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Australia does export dog food to Asia. That is how one of the Australian brands came about. The price of it has gone up heaps now though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 I gotta say I am very impressed with the VIP grain free range....including their cooked rolls. I have been trialling various dryfoods on my lot for over 6 months now trying to sort out what dry they do best on. I have tried various dogs on grain free incredibly expensive brands and also about 5 other premium brands. The only one that gave small poos, firm consistancy, as well as highly palatable for my lot was Hollistic Select. I feed BARF of an evening and I still think it is the best however....the VIP grain free dog roll was accepted readily, did not upset anyones gut and did not produce runny or soft poos, so I will be keeping one in the fridge for emergencies. I have a very choosey pup at the moment who would not eat much dryfood at all BUT she LOVES the VIP Puppy grainfree dry food. I will be trialling my lot on the VIP Adult grainfree soon and I got to say I am looking forward to saving some money. Thing that always bugged me was that some of the 'premium' high priced dry dogfoods in Australia are actually just average dogfood in their country of manufacture ie. USA. I love the idea of finally having a decent dry dogfood manufacturer in Australia. Stitch Hi, You are entirely correct. When these first "Premium" foods arrived in Aust. they were thought to be the top of the range foods now available to us. But many soon found out on trips to the states that many of these brands were nothing more than supermarket brands in the states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 (edited) Unfortunately the temptation is there for Australian dogfood manufacturing companies to increase their prices to match their competition because the price of premium dogfood in Australia is so abnormally high. I find it strange that there is not a great deal of different between the prices of the various 'premium' dogfoods at retailers. Sort of like buying petrol at the various petrol stations even down to the discount days!! LOL Hopefully because VIP is in the supermarket it won't become just one of the mob of high priced (mediocre quality) dry dogfoods available here. You would have to think that we could produce a reasonably priced high quality grain free dry dogfood here that wouldn't cost the earth. IMO the price of so called premium dry dogfoods in Australia is absolutely ridiculous! Agreed Stitch. I started asking here as I couldnt justify premium dry food prices - and I have an extra mouth to feed here at the moment with a Hawesbury foster. So was very pleased to find this reasonably priced grain fee food agrees with my guys and is easily avaiable. And if VIP do increase the price they'll lose their market share (which must be increasing), good will and market differentiation - as I suspect that most people will swap back to the other high priced foods if there isn't an advantage to buying the VIP. Edited March 27, 2013 by westiemum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted March 27, 2013 Share Posted March 27, 2013 Seeing as they are selling it in the supermarket they are going to have to keep it competitive with the other ranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esky the husky Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Which supermarkets is it at? Had a look for it the other day and no luck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted March 29, 2013 Share Posted March 29, 2013 Which supermarkets is it at? Had a look for it the other day and no luck? I buy it from Woolworths/Safeway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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