Vurd2BB Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) Hi all I have a 14 month old GSD. I admit i dropped the ball for a while regarding her socialization and sadly when she was a puppy we missed the window as we got her a bit late, but have since started seeing a behaviorist and seeking more information. I recently met a friend who has a GSD as well, first meeting Sara was barking at her, when she wouldn't calm down i would move further away, wait till she was calm and bring her closer, we started walking parallel for a bit, they eventually got to meet and settled down. We had a nice long walk and ended well. The second meeting a couple of days later, i didn't think my dog would do the barking fur raised thing again, she did, but no where near as long, the other dog tried lunging snapping a few times (not initially a bit later after they got closer and not one after the other either) my dog just barked at her for a little bit. My friend let his dog into a fenced off area to run around while my dog remained with me outside, let them sniff here and there (face to face) through the fence then eventually pulled them both together, my dog sniffed the other and we went on a walk. The other GSD did the lunging and snapping thing once or twice and my dog reacted the same way started barking and went low, but she stopped fairly soon after and this was the end of the meet after she settled we took off our own ways. I guess my main questions are, how come she still barked initially when she met her already, and why is she barking when the other dog lunges, the behaviorist says she does have some anxiety. Also when the other dog tried to sniff mine while we were walking, she made a quick turn around to see what was going on and the other dog backed off. Any tips on where to go from here, i will also admit she has not had any socializing recently apart from this, but i will aim to get her out more, and she will be meeting this other dog again, this time there may be a week break i hope this isn't too long. She also gets very worked and excited and pulls like mad when we start getting closer, even at about 25 or so metres! Please help! Cheers Edited October 2, 2012 by Vurd2BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Hi Vurd2BB, You mentioned a behaviourist in your post - are you seeing one? If so, can I ask who? Personally, in a situation like this I'd go to a professional (and not just anyone called a behaviourist, as they are an unregulated industry). If you're near Steve Courtney from K9Pro I'd recommend you see them asap. I say this from experience - I have a reactive dog who was living on a puppy farm pumping out litter after litter. She missed out on her critical socialisation period and is "speshul" as a result. Her reactivity only showed up after about a year of having her - she shut down before that. I didn't address it initially and we've both paid the price for it. It has taken years of work to undo my initial errors. The reason I recommend this rather than "just carry on doing what you're doing" is because her reactivity could be based on many things (excitement, nerves, fear, nervous excitement). The plan of attack will be different depending on what is driving this behaviour. The thing is that dogs learn by conditioning so EVERY opportunity that you give her to react badly REINFORCES that reaction. This is why getting help ASAP is important - every bad experience just makes more bad experiences more likely. As for your questions, some dogs react to dogs they know well. Some dogs just don't like other dogs. Soem dogs don't like specific dogs. She most probably barked when the other dog lunged at her to let the other dog know that she wasn't going to take that lying down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vurd2BB Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 Hi Vurd2BB, You mentioned a behaviourist in your post - are you seeing one? If so, can I ask who? Personally, in a situation like this I'd go to a professional (and not just anyone called a behaviourist, as they are an unregulated industry). If you're near Steve Courtney from K9Pro I'd recommend you see them asap. I say this from experience - I have a reactive dog who was living on a puppy farm pumping out litter after litter. She missed out on her critical socialisation period and is "speshul" as a result. Her reactivity only showed up after about a year of having her - she shut down before that. I didn't address it initially and we've both paid the price for it. It has taken years of work to undo my initial errors. The reason I recommend this rather than "just carry on doing what you're doing" is because her reactivity could be based on many things (excitement, nerves, fear, nervous excitement). The plan of attack will be different depending on what is driving this behaviour. The thing is that dogs learn by conditioning so EVERY opportunity that you give her to react badly REINFORCES that reaction. This is why getting help ASAP is important - every bad experience just makes more bad experiences more likely. As for your questions, some dogs react to dogs they know well. Some dogs just don't like other dogs. Soem dogs don't like specific dogs. She most probably barked when the other dog lunged at her to let the other dog know that she wasn't going to take that lying down. Hi, thanks for the reply I am indeed seeing Steve Courtney, but he didn't seem to phased by her behaviour and said it is actually not that bad with her, just needs desensitizing i guess. He introduced me to the parallel walking method, which worked after a bit in this instance, but this can't always be setup, say for example if a dog shows up on a walk etc. What do you say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Not particularly GSD knowledgeable - but I have seen this behaviour in my own BC and in friends' GSDs. You've been doing the right thing in not forcing the issue, and in staying outside your dog's reactive distance. Parallel on lead walking - distance apart whatever is needed to have the dogs comfortable - is IMHO one of the really great things to do. Owners are walking purposefully, so the dogs have things to do and look at rather than just the other dog, and no pressure is being put on them. My experience is that the more often you can do this, the more comfortable will the dogs become - not necessarily to the BFF stage - but that's not necessary. You just want them not arciing up. When I'm doing this sort of stuff, I don't require my dogs to meet other dogs face to face, or face to tail - just to be calm round controlled dogs. I'd say- keep doing what you're doing - if she gets too excited initially, stay ouitside the 25 metres unand walk parallel with the other dog/person, and as she calms down, you can move in closer. We find walking on lead around sports ovals or areas with a good line of site and plenty of space, is really helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vurd2BB Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 Thank you for the response as well. She seemed to calm down very quickly and we were able to walk side by side for a nice 20 - 40 minute walk with no issues, just the random outburst haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Have you asked Steve about his distraction technique (the kiss, kiss)? This can help prevent the barking if you get in quickly, or can help b ring attention back to you if she's being a pork chop. Another alternative is "Look at That" (LAT). As long as you keep regular contact with him, you can email him updates and questions all the time. I like researching stuff on my own and then asking if it would work in my situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vurd2BB Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 He has told me to start getting more attention on walks, but never mentioned either of those methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 K9: Megan is talking about the Behavioural Interrupter, which you have, sent it to you on the 24/5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vurd2BB Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) Ah, in which case i do! Sorry too much going on and reading way too much, information overload! Apologize for overlooking that Cheers Edited October 2, 2012 by Vurd2BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) My opinion for what its worth - if you have a plan designed by Steve then just work through it and as megan said send him email updates and make the modifications he suggests. If you try and mix and match and get to many peoples input into resolving a problem then it can actually make the situation worse. I have been in a similar position with a behavioral type problem and if you try and lump together to many people's input then it ends up pearshaped and you don't seem to make the progress you make if you stick with just the one person (so long as they are somebody who knows what they are talking about which Steve does). Steve knows his stuff when it comes to resolving behavioral issues so if he has provided you with a plan and a structure to follow then just do as your told and I am sure it will work out successfully for you. If things aren't working let him know and keep him informed. Best of luck. Edited October 2, 2012 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vurd2BB Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) My opinion for what its worth - if you have a plan designed by Steve then just work through it and as megan said send him email updates and make the modifications he suggests. If you try and mix and match and get to many peoples input into resolving a problem then it can actually make the situation worse. Steve knows his stuff when it comes to resolving behavioral issues so if he has provided you with a plan and a structure to follow then just do as your told . Sound advice mate and definitly intend to. Just didn't want to keep pestering him, i tend to be email heavy, but he's been great thus far, despite my irritating emails haha! Steve can vouch for this :p Edited October 2, 2012 by Vurd2BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) you don't know the meaning of email heavy (oops) - trust me I am sure your not the only one and probably in very good company . If your passionate (and driven) to wanting to help your dog out I think its just part of the nature of the territory. Edited October 2, 2012 by ness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vurd2BB Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 you don't know the meaning of email heavy (oops) - trust me I am sure your not the only one and probably in very good company . If your passionate (and driven) to wanting to help your dog out I think its just part of the nature of the territory. Haha, makes me feel slightly better :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Also when the other dog tried to sniff mine while we were walking, she made a quick turn around to see what was going on and the other dog backed off. agree with the others, stick to the plan outlined for your dog but have to comment on the above, If you were walking down the street with someone you had met only once before, would you not be a bit startled if the person (stanger) you were walking with suddenly threw their arm around your shoulders, or gave you a pat on the back side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vurd2BB Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 Also when the other dog tried to sniff mine while we were walking, she made a quick turn around to see what was going on and the other dog backed off. agree with the others, stick to the plan outlined for your dog but have to comment on the above, If you were walking down the street with someone you had met only once before, would you not be a bit startled if the person (stanger) you were walking with suddenly threw their arm around your shoulders, or gave you a pat on the back side? I see what you are saying, i guess when my dog sniffed the other, it didn't react as it is more used to meet and greets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vurd2BB Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) I think you're on the right track but as an owner of a reactive dog working through something similar I recommend you be really careful about which dogs you choose for those walks. Although it's a bit ask of a lot of dogs, you really need to find dogs that won't react to your dog's reactivity in a way that escalates the situation (such as barking and lunging). As Megan said, any opportunity your dog gets to act out like that reinforces the behaviour and being with a dog who will escalate the behaviour increases that risk. I'm in the process of teaching my dog the behavioural interruptor that was mentioned after someone in the reactive dogs thread (in the training section if you want to join us) recommended it (thank you to Steve for making it available on the website) and it's a fantastic way to redirect your dog's focus when you need to. LAT is also really effective and, in conjunction with the work we're doing with a trainer/behaviourist and her own dogs, has made a big difference to my dog's ability to remain under threshold when faced with another dog. Thanks i was previously attempting to train the interrupter, it did not work or i didn't get it properly in my situation, so we have left it for now. Cheers for the suggestion and the training thread Edited October 2, 2012 by Vurd2BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) Vurd2BB, hang in there - you are doing are doing a great job with Sara so far, I saw the email update from the weekend with the pic of her and Jet together and they looked like they were getting on really well. Remember as a new dog owner it takes time to learn the theory and get the handling down too. As far as I'm aware Sara had already developed these behaviours as a young dog, so you have to build some foundation work before you can address her behaviour problems. Dog training is progressive and you're progressing well so far! :) Bec Edited October 2, 2012 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vurd2BB Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 Vurd2BB, hang in there - you are doing are doing a great job with Sara so far, I saw the email update from the weekend with the pic of her and Jet together and they looked like they were getting on really well. Remember as a new dog owner it takes time to learn the theory and get the handling down too. As far as I'm aware Sara had already developed these behaviours as a young dog, so you have to build some foundation work before you can address her behaviour problems. Dog training is progressive and you're progressing well so far! :) Bec Thanks for the input Bec, much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbie_tabbie Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 By getting help and not just ignoring it (if you could lol) you are doing the best thing! I adopted a 4 year old who would have been PTS due to her reactivity. She had been kept in a run/crate all her life so fear reacted to people, dogs, trees, bikes, cars, bags blowing in the wind......! She would bark until she'd bite her tongue and be spitting blood I found the hardest part of training was other people (ie, an older gentleman who wanted to show me how to pin her down and called me stupid when I explained she was terrified and I use positive reinforcement) In three months she went from almost continual barking to a happy, relaxed and friendly dog :) We even adopted another dog and they get on amazingly. Sorry for all the waffle, my point is you are doing the right thing by seeing a professional and to try and ignore Joe Public if anyone tries to interfere! Also for the pulling try a front leading harness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vurd2BB Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 Thanks all for the input, good to know i am in the right direction with the help needed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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