Problems With Puppy Teeth

[Guest Labradork]

Hi, I’m new to the Forums and I own a 16 week old Labrador named "Poppy" (photo attached).

Yesterday Poppy was diagnosed with Base Narrow Canines by a vet at my clinic named Tom. He isn’t my usual vet - she is one of the practice owners and she has been away on leave.

Poppy's background:

I bought Poppy from an ANKC registered breeder. Both Poppy's parents are show dogs and have the correct Scissor Bite. When I viewed Poppy and her parents I hadn't heard of Base Narrow Canines and I didn't think to check her teeth. I thought she would be okay because her parents have the correct conformation.

The night I brought Poppy home I had a look at her teeth. She has a tooth shaped indentation in the front/outside of her top gum, between the top canine and incisor, where the lower canine has been making contact. I’m not sure if this is normal. There is no inflammation or infection and it looks like her gum has compensated by growing around her tooth (creating a space for the lower canine to fit into).

I phoned the breeder the next day and she said "Don't worry – it's just her baby teeth; she'll be fine".

At Poppy's next vet appointment I asked another vet (my usual vet was still away) to check her teeth. I was told that it wasn't a problem because "It's only her baby teeth".

Yesterday Poppy had her booster vaccination at the clinic. This time it was with the vet named Tom. He told me that Poppy has Base Narrow Canines. At this point the conversation got side tracked because Tom suggested that I get Poppy’s teeth checked out again in six weeks’ time when I come back to have her desexed. I didn’t feel comfortable saying this to Tom because he was so pushy, …but I’m actually thinking of having Poppy desexed after 18 – 24 months of age.

I’m not sure if I should have Poppy’s puppy tooth pulled out straight away …or wait to see what happens with her adult tooth. I don’t want her adult tooth to grow out in the same position as her puppy tooth (and for her to have bite problems later in life). I would like her to retain all her adult teeth so that she can eat raw bones, etc.

I would be interested to hear from anyone who has had experience with this.

Cheers,

xx

PS I tried to get a photo of her teeth but she wouldn't stop squirming. I will try again tonight when she is a bit more relaxed.

Edited January 27, 2013 by Maeby Fünke

[dancinbcs]

I know of a breeder of another breed, who has just gone through this with two show puppies she kept. The mouths were normal at 8 weeks and when I saw them at 9 weeks the bottom canines were actually inside the top ones, rather than outside, and sticking into the top gum. I had never seen it before. After consulting several vets she decided to wait it out as the consensus was that it is growth stage and most dogs grow out of it and a couple of months later that is what has happened and they are fine.

If you are really worried go and see a canine dental specialist for an opinion. Also find a less pushy vet. Ask the breeder fro recommended vets in your area.

[Guest Labradork]

I know of a breeder of another breed, who has just gone through this with two show puppies she kept. The mouths were normal at 8 weeks and when I saw them at 9 weeks the bottom canines were actually inside the top ones, rather than outside, and sticking into the top gum. I had never seen it before. After consulting several vets she decided to wait it out as the consensus was that it is growth stage and most dogs grow out of it and a couple of months later that is what has happened and they are fine.

If you are really worried go and see a canine dental specialist for an opinion. Also find a less pushy vet. Ask the breeder fro recommended vets in your area.

Thanks, dancinbcs

I'm going to make an appointment with my usual vet (who is lovely and treats me like an equal). She will be back next week. She can refer me to a specialist if necessary. No I definitely won't be seeing the male vet again.

Edited October 21, 2012 by Labradork

[luvsdogs]

My Japanese Spitz puppy had a perfect scissor bite with his milk teeth but he retained quite a few of them & no longer had a scissor bite. I contacted Christine Hawke http://sydneypetdentistry.com.au of SPD & joined her site & read the puppy tooth book. I wasn't given a name on what was wrong but one of his adult lower k9s was growing behind the upper incisor next to the upper k9. I worried over it for a long time & eventually emailed Christine & she rang me & we had quite a long chat. She knew my vet from vet school & was happy for me to make up my own mind on who to see about it. I eventually decided to go with my vet & had the incisor removed when he was desexed, to make room for the k9. He's on a raw meaty bone diet & has no problems eating them.

Christine's mentor is a pet dentist in Melbourne so maybe you can contact them.

[dancinbcs]

I know of a breeder of another breed, who has just gone through this with two show puppies she kept. The mouths were normal at 8 weeks and when I saw them at 9 weeks the bottom canines were actually inside the top ones, rather than outside, and sticking into the top gum. I had never seen it before. After consulting several vets she decided to wait it out as the consensus was that it is growth stage and most dogs grow out of it and a couple of months later that is what has happened and they are fine.

If you are really worried go and see a canine dental specialist for an opinion. Also find a less pushy vet. Ask the breeder fro recommended vets in your area.

Thanks, dancinbcs

I'm going to make an appointment with my usual vet (who is lovely and treats me like an equal). She will be back next week. No I definitely won't be seeing the male vet again. She can refer me to a specialist if necessary.

I should have mentioned that these things happen when the jaws grow at different rates, just like the front and back legs can. It have seen quite a few puppies around 4 months were the top jaw is suddenly longer than the bottom and then the bottom catches up a month or so later. With Base Narrow, the top jaw has widened first and the bottom jaw will then hopefully follow.

Mouths are one thing that can be difficult to predict, are more of a problem in some breeds than others but any breed or crossbreed can be affected. It is pretty much impossible to guarantee that every puppy with a perfect bite at 8 weeks, will still have one as an adult and many a breeder has run on a show prospect for themselves, only to have the mouth go wrong.

[Guest Labradork]

My Japanese Spitz puppy had a perfect scissor bite with his milk teeth but he retained quite a few of them & no longer had a scissor bite. I contacted Christine Hawke http://sydneypetdentistry.com.au of SPD & joined her site & read the puppy tooth book. I wasn't given a name on what was wrong but one of his adult lower k9s was growing behind the upper incisor next to the upper k9. I worried over it for a long time & eventually emailed Christine & she rang me & we had quite a long chat. She knew my vet from vet school & was happy for me to make up my own mind on who to see about it. I eventually decided to go with my vet & had the incisor removed when he was desexed, to make room for the k9. He's on a raw meaty bone diet & has no problems eating them.

Christine's mentor is a pet dentist in Melbourne so maybe you can contact them.

Great idea, thanks. I will email Christine and see what she says.

[Guest Labradork]

I know of a breeder of another breed, who has just gone through this with two show puppies she kept. The mouths were normal at 8 weeks and when I saw them at 9 weeks the bottom canines were actually inside the top ones, rather than outside, and sticking into the top gum. I had never seen it before. After consulting several vets she decided to wait it out as the consensus was that it is growth stage and most dogs grow out of it and a couple of months later that is what has happened and they are fine.

If you are really worried go and see a canine dental specialist for an opinion. Also find a less pushy vet. Ask the breeder fro recommended vets in your area.

Thanks, dancinbcs

I'm going to make an appointment with my usual vet (who is lovely and treats me like an equal). She will be back next week. No I definitely won't be seeing the male vet again. She can refer me to a specialist if necessary.

I should have mentioned that these things happen when the jaws grow at different rates, just like the front and back legs can. It have seen quite a few puppies around 4 months were the top jaw is suddenly longer than the bottom and then the bottom catches up a month or so later. With Base Narrow, the top jaw has widened first and the bottom jaw will then hopefully follow.

Mouths are one thing that can be difficult to predict, are more of a problem in some breeds than others but any breed or crossbreed can be affected. It is pretty much impossible to guarantee that every puppy with a perfect bite at 8 weeks, will still have one as an adult and many a breeder has run on a show prospect for themselves, only to have the mouth go wrong.

I just had a look online and it seems common for puppies' top/lower jaws to grow at different rates. Hopefully that's all it is. Thanks so much for the replies - very helpful.

ETA:

I have just realised that there has been some confusion between me and the vet named Tom. He said that Poppy's canine teeth were touching her palate. But her teeth aren't touching her palate (the roof of her mouth); they are sitting against the front/outside of her gum.

Edited September 30, 2012 by Labradork

[WreckitWhippet]

I wouldn;t be worried about them at all.

Ignore the vet when it comes to the pups mouth and also desexing.

ETA: If the vet was thinking that the canines were inverted, removing the baby teeth is not going to make any difference to how the adult teeth come through. If it was adult teeth that were inverted and touching the roof of the mouth, then if need be they can be ground down. There's a hell of a lot of dogs out there with inverted canines and other bite issues that live long and happy lives without intervention.

Edited October 3, 2012 by Pav Lova

[Guest Labradork]

I wouldn;t be worried about them at all.

Ignore the vet when it comes to the pups mouth and also desexing.

ETA: If the vet was thinking that the canines were inverted, removing the baby teeth is not going to make any difference to how the adult teeth come through. If it was adult teeth that were inverted and touching the roof of the mouth, then if need be they can be ground down. There's a hell of a lot of dogs out there with inverted canines and other bite issues that live long and happy lives without intervention.

I phoned a specialist who said that obviously he would need to examine Poppy, but he did say that I could wait until she is 8 months old (and her teeth have reached maturity) to have some orthodontic work done to correct her bite.

I like the idea of waiting it out, to see if the bite corrects itself, and if not having orthodontic work done later.

[Guest Labradork]

Here is an update on Poppy's teeth...

I'm so upset and disappointed. She definitely has Base Narrow Canines I was hoping her baby teeth would fall out all by themselves, and her bite would correct itself, but they haven't. The lower adult canines are coming through behind her baby teeth. They aren't coming through right up beside them, like you see in most puppies who retain their baby teeth; they are practically sitting in the bottom of her mouth

I feel so guilty for not making the decision to have her baby teeth removed sooner (she will be five months old next week).

I tried taking another photo but I couldn't hold her mouth open and take the photo at the same time. The tips of her lower adult canines are in the same position as the ones in this photo of another dog (below)...

I'm taking her to the specialist on Thursday.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Labradork

[Jumabaar]

Dont feel bad at all!! These things happen and are the reason there are specialists And someone else will google this thread and get some really valuable information!

Poppy is a lucky pup to have an owner who is getting her treatment.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Jumabaar

[Guest Labradork]

Thanks, Jumabaar. I just want the best for my puppy.

Edited October 30, 2012 by Labradork

[Guest Labradork]

I just came back from the specialist's a little while ago...

The specialist is confident that the puppy tooth will come out all by itself (the other one came out while we were there!).

And even though her adult teeth aren't coming through in the correct position at the moment, they are sitting at the correct angle and they are not inverted. He is confident that the adult canines will move across to the correct position all by themselves.

Yaaayy, I feel sooo much better :)

[Dame Aussie]

Good news :)

[Guest Labradork]

Just a quick update on Poppy's teeth...

The other puppy tooth fell out last week, and the adult canine moved into place all by itself. It only took two days to do this. Amazing!

[Salukifan]

[marina scott]

Do not panic. Get her a rubber ball and teach her to hold it in her mouth... A game but if you do it often enough it can move the teeth just enough

[Guest Labradork]

She has four i-squeaks (a type of rubber ball)... And her favourite thing to do at the moment is lie on her side, with one in her mouth, and squeak away.

Her bite is completely normal now.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Labradork

[MarieEvans]

Good news for Poppy. I never have encountered these kinds of problems with my dogs. I would love to see those in case my dogs would have them in the future and I might get worried like you. Do you have a photo of Poppy's teeth or does she still squirm a lot? :D

[Guest Labradork]

Good news for Poppy. I never have encountered these kinds of problems with my dogs. I would love to see those in case my dogs would have them in the future and I might get worried like you. Do you have a photo of Poppy's teeth or does she still squirm a lot? :D

Sorry, I'm really slack with photos and I don't have any current ones...

If you go back to post #10, there's a photo of another dog whose adult canines are coming through in the same position as Poppy's. The difference is that Poppy's teeth were coming through at the correct angle while the other dog's are not.

Sorry, I didn't think to update this thread: both Poppy's adult canines have moved into the correct position all by themselves. I was so relieved when the first tooth moved over that I forgot all about the second tooth! But yes, they are now all sitting perfectly where they're supposed to be :)

Edited December 17, 2012 by Labradork