Bilious Vomiting Syndrome In Dogs

[twodoggies2001]

Do you ever feed bones that he can actually digest such as chicken wings, chicken necks or frames. n proportion, how much is meat and how much is vegetable and rice?

I didn't get those chicken wings , etc type as worry will splinter etc.

I do proportion all the recipe with grams and so on

You didn't actually answer my question. Does he get the same amount of vegetables as he does meat, more or does he get less? The bones are good for teeth and I have mini schnauzers and they eat them with no trouble at all. The bones is also a good source of calcium.

[Jumabaar]

Jts best practice for Xrays to be taken before and after extraction- exactly the same as a human dentist does. It means they know exactly where to go in to get the tooth roots and it means they can check to see that no fragment has been left in (because sometimes there are sneaky little bits)

That being said I only know of two general practice vets that routinely do X-rays, although it is quite simple to do. So its up to you if you want to enquire if they will perform them (my dogs all had pre and post extraction radiographs taken).

My dogs have all bounced back from desexing within 36hrs- and with supervision have not required the Elizabethan collar during the day. They didnt care about the collar though as they have all got a treat every time it went on so they actually thought the collar was the best thing in the world!!

The pups that had baby tooth extracted due to them fracturing were eating within a couple of hrs of surgery and were bouncing around like normal by the next morning!! They all still loooooove the vets!!

The drugs that they are given make them less able to focus/remember their time in there, and they get pain relief so there is no negative association.

[ChewieTAG]

Jts best practice for Xrays to be taken before and after extraction- exactly the same as a human dentist does. It means they know exactly where to go in to get the tooth roots and it means they can check to see that no fragment has been left in (because sometimes there are sneaky little bits)

That being said I only know of two general practice vets that routinely do X-rays, although it is quite simple to do. So its up to you if you want to enquire if they will perform them (my dogs all had pre and post extraction radiographs taken).

My dogs have all bounced back from desexing within 36hrs- and with supervision have not required the Elizabethan collar during the day. They didnt care about the collar though as they have all got a treat every time it went on so they actually thought the collar was the best thing in the world!!

The pups that had baby tooth extracted due to them fracturing were eating within a couple of hrs of surgery and were bouncing around like normal by the next morning!! They all still loooooove the vets!!

The drugs that they are given make them less able to focus/remember their time in there, and they get pain relief so there is no negative association.

I am feeling a little bit better after reading this. *calmer* I should stay calm and assertive just like Cesar says...

I will call up the vet and enquire about the x-ray. Do they show you the day itself when it was x-ray or you need to wait couple of hours or days to see the result? My vet didn't suggest about X-ray and stupid me did not thought of it that time I should have.

As for fasting him before going for surgery, I am not sure if it's such a good timing for Snowy to fast from 6pm onwards till when we send him over. It is crucial to fast him for safety of surgery but I think he will throw up the bile again out of hunger. I am thinking of giving him 1 biscuit (bone shaped) at 5am so that to avoid being too hungry. I heard about some owners giving Gaviscon to prevent the acid / bile throw up. I might do that too

I am such a worry - mom!

[persephone]

It is for Snowy's safety to be fasted.

Sometimes dogs throw up ..and if there is food in the stomach when they do , this may then go into the lungs...which is a very bad plan

So, an empty tummy means much less risk of trouble!

Snowy throwing up a bit of stomach acid/bile is nothing drastic ..he is just cleaning out his tummy .... and so I would not suggest giving him anything at all!

[ChewieTAG]

It is for Snowy's safety to be fasted.

Sometimes dogs throw up ..and if there is food in the stomach when they do , this may then go into the lungs...which is a very bad plan

So, an empty tummy means much less risk of trouble!

Snowy throwing up a bit of stomach acid/bile is nothing drastic ..he is just cleaning out his tummy .... and so I would not suggest giving him anything at all!

thanks @persephone

Is it ok to give him that shaped bone biscuit during midnight instead or 11pm, the night that suppose to be fasting? I really want the best for Snowy.. Throwing up the bile may create ulcer as the vet says. I guess throwing up the bile out of hunger is ok on that morning to clear up stomach. Absolutely a no-no during the surgery! I might inform the vet performing the surgery about this hunger bile throw up on that day. Just in case, the vet should have a look out of it . Just because I fast him doesn't mean he won't throw up. He might (like you say) throw up to clean the bile.

My goal is to make sure it is the last bile of hunger vomit from that day onwards (hopefully none)! Will try to get the feeding time right from today to avoid hunger vomit in future.

Feeding time:

6am and 6pm for the main meal. So two meals a day.

Supper - 1 bone shaped biscuit

Treat ball with kibbles during the day (to last out and not gorge down right away)

[persephone]

having him empty one day will not cause an ulcer .... and when fasted , all dogs have some acid/liquid in their stomachs ..don't panic! :)

*breathe* !!

Ask your vet about giving the 'supper' biscuit ...and follow his/her advice.

:)

[tlc]

My oldest dog has BVS, once I started feeding twice a day it stopped completely, my other 3 get fed once a day and they are fine. Although a couple of times a week they get extra in the form of bone, ( chicken wings, neck or rmb) I think bones are an important part of teeth maintenance.

Why not wait and see how he goes without the collar and if need be you can use one. None of mine needed the collar after deserving and all bounced back quickly.

Try to relax and don't fuss or the dog will pick up on your stress.

Good luck.

[Jumabaar]

Jts best practice for Xrays to be taken before and after extraction- exactly the same as a human dentist does. It means they know exactly where to go in to get the tooth roots and it means they can check to see that no fragment has been left in (because sometimes there are sneaky little bits)

That being said I only know of two general practice vets that routinely do X-rays, although it is quite simple to do. So its up to you if you want to enquire if they will perform them (my dogs all had pre and post extraction radiographs taken).

My dogs have all bounced back from desexing within 36hrs- and with supervision have not required the Elizabethan collar during the day. They didnt care about the collar though as they have all got a treat every time it went on so they actually thought the collar was the best thing in the world!!

The pups that had baby tooth extracted due to them fracturing were eating within a couple of hrs of surgery and were bouncing around like normal by the next morning!! They all still loooooove the vets!!

The drugs that they are given make them less able to focus/remember their time in there, and they get pain relief so there is no negative association.

I am feeling a little bit better after reading this. *calmer* I should stay calm and assertive just like Cesar says...

I will call up the vet and enquire about the x-ray. Do they show you the day itself when it was x-ray or you need to wait couple of hours or days to see the result? My vet didn't suggest about X-ray and stupid me did not thought of it that time I should have.

As for fasting him before going for surgery, I am not sure if it's such a good timing for Snowy to fast from 6pm onwards till when we send him over. It is crucial to fast him for safety of surgery but I think he will throw up the bile again out of hunger. I am thinking of giving him 1 biscuit (bone shaped) at 5am so that to avoid being too hungry. I heard about some owners giving Gaviscon to prevent the acid / bile throw up. I might do that too

I am such a worry - mom!

Xrays will be one once he is anaesthetised and are developed immediately on site. As I said your veterinarian may not do these routinely for dental extractions.

I wouldnt worry about the little vomit of bile in the morning- getting that up will make the surgery even SAFER!! as he will have even less in his tummy at the time of the anaesthetic

[ChewieTAG]

having him empty one day will not cause an ulcer .... and when fasted , all dogs have some acid/liquid in their stomachs ..don't panic! :)

*breathe* !!

Ask your vet about giving the 'supper' biscuit ...and follow his/her advice.

:)

thanks again @persephone !

I will call the vet on Monday just to be sure.

[ChewieTAG]

My oldest dog has BVS, once I started feeding twice a day it stopped completely, my other 3 get fed once a day and they are fine. Although a couple of times a week they get extra in the form of bone, ( chicken wings, neck or rmb) I think bones are an important part of teeth maintenance.

Why not wait and see how he goes without the collar and if need be you can use one. None of mine needed the collar after deserving and all bounced back quickly.

Try to relax and don't fuss or the dog will pick up on your stress.

Good luck.

yes, I don't quite like the collar on him. Surely give him unwanted stress but, will see how the condition goes. If need to use it, will use. Else, I will not use it and monitor him like a hawk! Monitor but no fussing over him! *Mental reminder to myself*

I tend to fuss over him when I get worry about him

[ChewieTAG]

Xrays will be one once he is anaesthetised and are developed immediately on site. As I said your veterinarian may not do these routinely for dental extractions.

I wouldnt worry about the little vomit of bile in the morning- getting that up will make the surgery even SAFER!! as he will have even less in his tummy at the time of the anaesthetic

I see. I will call and ask just to check if they do, do X-ray.

Good point on the bile throwing up. Maybe it should be 100% more safer after the throwing up! Just feel sorry for him to go through it.

But yes, if he throws up, then should be safe I will inform the vet if he didn't throw up that morning just to be in the safe side. Better put that in my reminder!

Thanks!

[persephone]

I will inform the vet if he didn't throw up that morning just to be in the safe side. Better put that in my reminder!

Why bother? if he does NOT throw up...then he is just like the millions of other normal dogs :p

[Red Fox]

I got the recipe from Snowy's breeder and stick with it. It works well for him and good for his skin & coat. I am happy that it is a healthy mix. All human grade food so will need to prepare beforehand. Mixture of pumpkin, sweet potato, carrot, silver beet, chicken liver, rice, celery, raw beef, chicken breast, etc. I wonder if the breeder has already perfected the recipe that works for Snowy.. and his other shih tzu.

Breeder did say that he will throw up if I feed him flax seed

how much of the biscuit you gives him for supper? A hand full or it's a bigger size treat type of biscuit?

Are you adding any supplements and/or feeding bones or dry food?? That diet has next to no calcium in it. Personally I'd be adding some chicken wings and necks or switching him to something like VAN instead, regardless of what the breeder does.

As far as desexing your dog, well you don't have to. There really is no rush and it certainly wont hurt him to stay entire.

Re the vomiting, yes some dogs will eventually grow out of it. Space the meals out over the day, 3-4 smaller meals as opposed to 1-2 larger ones- and that should help.

[ChewieTAG]

Are you adding any supplements and/or feeding bones or dry food?? That diet has next to no calcium in it. Personally I'd be adding some chicken wings and necks or switching him to something like VAN instead, regardless of what the breeder does.

As far as desexing your dog, well you don't have to. There really is no rush and it certainly wont hurt him to stay entire.

Re the vomiting, yes some dogs will eventually grow out of it. Space the meals out over the day, 3-4 smaller meals as opposed to 1-2 larger ones- and that should help.

Oh forgot to mention about the dog milk supplements that I am still giving.

Divetelact and Farax. (1 milk powder scoop for each, daily)

Breeder said that he can stay on both of it as long as I want .. so I am still giving to him. He is 8 months old now.

I guess won't hurt him to stay entire. Maybe it's better for him as well but I want to avoid him learning to mark the territory. That's the only concern. He is starting to sniff around nowadays. I just hope desexing will not turn him much more scaredy cat than he is now.

[Kobi'sDaisy]

Chewak,

My dog has had the same thing with the vomiting since we bought him home. His is caused by too much time in between meals and if he ever skips one on our terms (rather than him being unwell or not wanting to eat) it will happen every time! He is now almost 2 and still hasn't grown out of it.

Mind you it doesn;t happen that often as we still feed him twice a day and don't plan to stop any time! Hope it's better for your pup, its certainly no fun!!

[Red Fox]

Are you adding any supplements and/or feeding bones or dry food?? That diet has next to no calcium in it. Personally I'd be adding some chicken wings and necks or switching him to something like VAN instead, regardless of what the breeder does.

As far as desexing your dog, well you don't have to. There really is no rush and it certainly wont hurt him to stay entire.

Re the vomiting, yes some dogs will eventually grow out of it. Space the meals out over the day, 3-4 smaller meals as opposed to 1-2 larger ones- and that should help.

Oh forgot to mention about the dog milk supplements that I am still giving.

Divetelact and Farax. (1 milk powder scoop for each, daily)

Breeder said that he can stay on both of it as long as I want .. so I am still giving to him. He is 8 months old now.

I guess won't hurt him to stay entire. Maybe it's better for him as well but I want to avoid him learning to mark the territory. That's the only concern. He is starting to sniff around nowadays. I just hope desexing will not turn him much more scaredy cat than he is now.

He's 8 months old? Desexing will make very little difference (behavioural wise). If he was going to start marking his territory he'd be doing it already.

Why on earth would you give an 8 month old puppy Divetelact? It's designed as a milk replacement for baby puppies, not adults.

Di-Vetelact is a palatable and nutritious low lactose milk based feed that is used as an “Infant Formula” for orphaned animals and as a supplement for older animals

http://www.sharpelabs.com.au/

Farex is a cereal, not a dog food. There is really no nutritional value in it.

I don't intend to be rude as I think you're doing your best with the info the breeder gave you, but what you're feeding is not IMO a balanced diet.

[twodoggies2001]

I got the recipe from Snowy's breeder and stick with it. It works well for him and good for his skin & coat. I am happy that it is a healthy mix. All human grade food so will need to prepare beforehand. Mixture of pumpkin, sweet potato, carrot, silver beet, chicken liver, rice, celery, raw beef, chicken breast, etc. I wonder if the breeder has already perfected the recipe that works for Snowy.. and his other shih tzu.

Breeder did say that he will throw up if I feed him flax seed

how much of the biscuit you gives him for supper? A hand full or it's a bigger size treat type of biscuit?

Are you adding any supplements and/or feeding bones or dry food?? That diet has next to no calcium in it. Personally I'd be adding some chicken wings and necks or switching him to something like VAN instead, regardless of what the breeder does.

As far as desexing your dog, well you don't have to. There really is no rush and it certainly wont hurt him to stay entire.

Re the vomiting, yes some dogs will eventually grow out of it. Space the meals out over the day, 3-4 smaller meals as opposed to 1-2 larger ones- and that should help.

That's my thought too. Back in threads 18 and 21 I also mentioned the chicken because I thought the diet lacked calcium. My vet suggested the best source of calcium is through bones and when my pup was not long home, even though he was eating chicken necks for one of his meals, she suggested backing them up with s calcium powder until he could handle the wings and frames. I wonder if the breeder is giving the right advice and just how much experience he/she has had with puppy feeding. I could be wrong there. I do feed vegetables too, but this makes up only a small proportion of the feed as is the liver which can be too rich if given too freely.

[ChewieTAG]

I do thank everyone for the concern of Snowy's diet. Appreciate the opinion and thoughts..

I was given a ratio of Vege 1 : 1 Meat + rice and chicken liver in the mix. (I will not give the liver when I think the stool is getting a little firmer than usual)

The mixture of veges has all the minerals and vitamins contained, and as far as I know they do have calcium in it. Breeder informed that both the vege and meat should balance the phosphorus and calcium contain in it. Well, he has 40 years experience in his family of shih tzu breeding and showing shih tzu... I guess he should be right.

I do plan in weaning Snowy off the farax and Di-Vetelact but just after his surgery when everything settled down.

Breeder said that it is dangerous for a shih tzu to have the bones as they have really short nose and tied airways. He advised to occasionally treat Snowy with cheese, which I did. I've done research that cottage cheese is easier to digest by dogs. Low fat and less salt cottage cheese it is.. And give Snowy something else to chew on.

If calcium is lacking, I will op for grinding eggshell to a powder to add on to Snowy's food. However, too much may also be dangerous.

I also give Advance Puppy kibbles.

I do believe it is a balance diet.

In other note, I am stressing over the fact that the surgery day is nearing! Although Snowy has no idea what is about to happen!

[persephone]

Low fat and less salt cottage cheese it is.. And give Snowy something else to chew on.

cottage cheese is really not classed as 'something to chew'

If you are interested in learning more about what foods contain the nutrients needed ...and read about other's experience in feeding all sorts of diets .. CLICK HERE :)

Snowy is lucky having such a concerned owner... but just remember , worrying does neither of you a favour ....

[Red Fox]

Meat contains phosphorus, bones contain calcium. This is why dogs should be fed meat on edible/digestible (non weight bearing) bones. Veggies do contain some vitamins and minerals, including calcium, but no-where near enough to balance the diet. Dogs also digest vegetables differently to humans. You need to pulverise them raw to break down the cellulose wall for the dog to get any value out of them. And even then it's minimal.

Rice will provide carbohydrates, but again doesn't have much nutritional value beyond a filler.

Egg shell is not dangerous, but there are better options available.

The Advance Puppy dry food is good.

If you don't want to feed bones then I'd suggest you look into VAN http://www.vetsallnatural.com.au/

Basically you soak the mix overnight then add your choice of raw meat. Provides a balanced diet and saves all the stuffing around. You can get a free sample here if it interests you: http://www.vetsallnatural.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=71&Itemid=85

Don't stress over the surgery, your dog will be just fine.