Coroner Calls For Laws On Breeding Restricted Breeds

[Dame Aussie]

In my opinion, the sun orbits around the earth, which is flat, and all opinions are valid.

Ironic that Steamboat is screeching about valid opinions while directing people that opinions are not on topic. If people stop responding then Steamboat can shout about it all he/she likes in the vacuum which will be the only existence on this forum for him/her.

Agree.

Edited to add, on a Footy forum I'm a member of, they have an "ignore" function, where you put members who's crap you don't want to read on, it's fantastic, would be good if DOL had it.

DOL has ignore, go to your settings and click on manage ignored users...then just search for the user you want to ignore. I use it quite often :)

[steamboat]

In my opinion, the sun orbits around the earth, which is flat, and all opinions are valid.

Ironic that Steamboat is screeching about valid opinions while directing people that opinions are not on topic. If people stop responding then Steamboat can shout about it all he/she likes in the vacuum which will be the only existence on this forum for him/her.

Agree.

Edited to add, on a Footy forum I'm a member of, they have an "ignore" function, where you put members who's crap you don't want to read on, it's fantastic, would be good if DOL had it.

They have.

Please avail yourself of it.

[mantis]

In my opinion, the sun orbits around the earth, which is flat, and all opinions are valid.

Ironic that Steamboat is screeching about valid opinions while directing people that opinions are not on topic. If people stop responding then Steamboat can shout about it all he/she likes in the vacuum which will be the only existence on this forum for him/her.

Agree.

Edited to add, on a Footy forum I'm a member of, they have an "ignore" function, where you put members who's crap you don't want to read on, it's fantastic, would be good if DOL had it.

DOL has ignore, go to your settings and click on manage ignored users...then just search for the user you want to ignore. I use it quite often :)

Done, thank you so much, my blood pressure has lowered already.

[Aidan3]

Sigh.

For the record and those who may not be able to follow: No where have I "stated" or even sugested that ANKC,state bodies or their members support BSL.

Anyone who can walk and chew gum at the same time could see you were talking about certain DOLers and not the ANKC.

[Dame Aussie]

In my opinion, the sun orbits around the earth, which is flat, and all opinions are valid.

Ironic that Steamboat is screeching about valid opinions while directing people that opinions are not on topic. If people stop responding then Steamboat can shout about it all he/she likes in the vacuum which will be the only existence on this forum for him/her.

Agree.

Edited to add, on a Footy forum I'm a member of, they have an "ignore" function, where you put members who's crap you don't want to read on, it's fantastic, would be good if DOL had it.

DOL has ignore, go to your settings and click on manage ignored users...then just search for the user you want to ignore. I use it quite often :)

Done, thank you so much, my blood pressure has lowered already.

You're very welcome :D

[Guest Labradork]

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Edited October 26, 2012 by Labradork

[m-sass]

What we need to accept and understand from a public viewpoint is that the majority of the serious attacks and the death of Ahen are the same type of dogs over and over again. On this news page alone, 3 serious attacks, 3 dogs of the same "type". It's not so much what these dogs are as such, it's what they are not, they are not GSD's, they are not Rottweilers, they are not Belgian Malinois, they are not Standard Poodles, Greyhounds or Great Danes, they are 95% of the time a crossbreed Bull something reflective of the "type" already BSL listed. A type or "style" of dog that continues to feature in serious attacks at the proportion that these Bull whatever breeds do, will naturally raise public concern wanting this type/style of dog ejected from the community.

The arguement that all dogs have teeth and all dogs regardless of breed can be dangerous in the wrong hands is all bulldust as everyone knows, this model of thought process concludes that if the Ahen killer was a Labrador as registered by council, the Lab would have done the same thing which is absolute rubbish. The arguements put forward by anti BSL crusaders are too stupid to be taken seriously in the public view. No government is going to release restrictions upon breeds or types of dogs considered a danger to the community whether that is right or wrong whilst the same type/styles of dogs continue to feature in serious attacks and the sooner we accept this and move on the better IMHO.

[Dame Aussie]

No, actually why am I bothering :laugh: never mind.

Edited October 26, 2012 by Aussie3

[WreckitWhippet]

What we need to accept and understand from a public viewpoint is that the majority of the serious attacks and the death of Ahen are the same type of dogs over and over again. On this news page alone, 3 serious attacks, 3 dogs of the same "type". It's not so much what these dogs are as such, it's what they are not, they are not GSD's, they are not Rottweilers, they are not Belgian Malinois, they are not Standard Poodles, Greyhounds or Great Danes, they are 95% of the time a crossbreed Bull something reflective of the "type" already BSL listed. A type or "style" of dog that continues to feature in serious attacks at the proportion that these Bull whatever breeds do, will naturally raise public concern wanting this type/style of dog ejected from the community.

The arguement that all dogs have teeth and all dogs regardless of breed can be dangerous in the wrong hands is all bulldust as everyone knows, this model of thought process concludes that if the Ahen killer was a Labrador as registered by council, the Lab would have done the same thing which is absolute rubbish. The arguements put forward by anti BSL crusaders are too stupid to be taken seriously in the public view. No government is going to release restrictions upon breeds or types of dogs considered a danger to the community whether that is right or wrong whilst the same type/styles of dogs continue to feature in serious attacks and the sooner we accept this and move on the better IMHO.

Absolutely, BSL is here to stay for the foreseable future.

So why not at least try and have some amendments put in place, especially in Victoria that allow suspect dogs to be temperament tested and at least give some of the "nice" family pets an option other than life in a cage or seizure and certain death.

Asking for amendments to legislation, doesn't mean that you agree with it but there's more than one way to skin a cat .

[m-sass]

What we need to accept and understand from a public viewpoint is that the majority of the serious attacks and the death of Ahen are the same type of dogs over and over again. On this news page alone, 3 serious attacks, 3 dogs of the same "type". It's not so much what these dogs are as such, it's what they are not, they are not GSD's, they are not Rottweilers, they are not Belgian Malinois, they are not Standard Poodles, Greyhounds or Great Danes, they are 95% of the time a crossbreed Bull something reflective of the "type" already BSL listed. A type or "style" of dog that continues to feature in serious attacks at the proportion that these Bull whatever breeds do, will naturally raise public concern wanting this type/style of dog ejected from the community.

The arguement that all dogs have teeth and all dogs regardless of breed can be dangerous in the wrong hands is all bulldust as everyone knows, this model of thought process concludes that if the Ahen killer was a Labrador as registered by council, the Lab would have done the same thing which is absolute rubbish. The arguements put forward by anti BSL crusaders are too stupid to be taken seriously in the public view. No government is going to release restrictions upon breeds or types of dogs considered a danger to the community whether that is right or wrong whilst the same type/styles of dogs continue to feature in serious attacks and the sooner we accept this and move on the better IMHO.

Absolutely, BSL is here to stay for the foreseable future.

So why not at least try and have some amendments put in place, especially in Victoria that allow suspect dogs to be temperament tested and at least give some of the "nice" family pets an option other than life in a cage or seizure and certain death.

Asking for amendments to legislation, doesn't mean that you agree with it but there's more than one way to skin a cat .

Yes, they need to give a bit to get a bit back. Instead of fighting all the way with the government, they could admit that "some" dogs that fit the standard do present a danger to the community and commend the government for taking a pro-active stance on that, THEN present that not "all" dogs fitting the standard are a risk to public safety and propose that suspect dogs be given the rights of passing a temperament test on the condition that if it doesn't pass it's euthanised without appeal and if it does pass the test, it's awarded a certificate of exemption to live life as a non-restricted breed.

[Aidan3]

Simple reason, m-sass. Communities which have very strict, long-standing BSL do not have a reduction in dog-related injuries or fatalities. If the concern is public safety (as you are arguing) then the more effective solutions should be implemented.

Whether we should give a little to get a little back is a fair consideration, and you and Pav Lova have made that argument quite reasonably. I tend to agree, even though I don't agree that BSL improves safety outcomes. If the current trend amongst irresponsible dog owners is bull breeds, then placing temperament based restrictions on those breeds is a compromise worth consideration. Not without it's problems, but better than the current situation in Vic.

[BlackJaq]

Maybe the circumstances in which dogs are kept should also be subject to evaluation. In the Ayen Chol case there was direct access from the backyard into the garage and no door. The only thing between the backyard and the street was the garage door so unless the dog was kept chained it had access to the street each time the garage door opened and a vehicle entered or left. Not ideal in my opinion and neither is chaining a dog permanently....

[Aphra]

The fact that the dog apparently hadn't got out before and had ulcerated pressure sores suggest that it was tethered doesn't it? I've had 68 kilo dogs who didn't ever have pressure sores of any kind, but of course, they didn't spend their lives sleeping on concrete either.

Maybe the circumstances in which dogs are kept should also be subject to evaluation. In the Ayen Chol case there was direct access from the backyard into the garage and no door. The only thing between the backyard and the street was the garage door so unless the dog was kept chained it had access to the street each time the garage door opened and a vehicle entered or left. Not ideal in my opinion and neither is chaining a dog permanently....

[Aphra]

I found this yesterday while looking for another quote.

“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.” Harlan Ellison

In my opinion, the sun orbits around the earth, which is flat, and all opinions are valid.

[Zhou Xuanyao]

No, there shall be no give, just take. BSL in any guise is out, nothing else will do.

[BlackJaq]

The fact that the dog apparently hadn't got out before and had ulcerated pressure sores suggest that it was tethered doesn't it? I've had 68 kilo dogs who didn't ever have pressure sores of any kind, but of course, they didn't spend their lives sleeping on concrete either.

Maybe the circumstances in which dogs are kept should also be subject to evaluation. In the Ayen Chol case there was direct access from the backyard into the garage and no door. The only thing between the backyard and the street was the garage door so unless the dog was kept chained it had access to the street each time the garage door opened and a vehicle entered or left. Not ideal in my opinion and neither is chaining a dog permanently....

Yea, that is what I was getting at but the coroner did not mention that the dog was kept chained (either because they did not think it was important, or because they didn't notice any evidence thereof or because they did not want to mention anything that might undermine their reasoning of the breed being the one and only reason that this dog did what it did) so I refrained from drawing this conclusion publicly.

Either way the ulcerations of the dog were completely ignored and dismissed and so were the circumstances the dog was kept in. Disgusting.

Edited October 26, 2012 by BlackJaq

[mantis]

Simple reason, m-sass. Communities which have very strict, long-standing BSL do not have a reduction in dog-related injuries or fatalities. If the concern is public safety (as you are arguing) then the more effective solutions should be implemented.

Whether we should give a little to get a little back is a fair consideration, and you and Pav Lova have made that argument quite reasonably. I tend to agree, even though I don't agree that BSL improves safety outcomes. If the current trend amongst irresponsible dog owners is bull breeds, then placing temperament based restrictions on those breeds is a compromise worth consideration. Not without it's problems, but better than the current situation in Vic.

Agree, when I lived in Perth, the local ranger came & temperament tested my boy, who passed with flying colours. So luckily he didn't put a D/D or restricted dog on his registration, so I didn't have to keep him in a cage, or muzzle him. I give a big to ranger Graham.

[Sheridan]

Simple reason, m-sass. Communities which have very strict, long-standing BSL do not have a reduction in dog-related injuries or fatalities. If the concern is public safety (as you are arguing) then the more effective solutions should be implemented.

Whether we should give a little to get a little back is a fair consideration, and you and Pav Lova have made that argument quite reasonably. I tend to agree, even though I don't agree that BSL improves safety outcomes. If the current trend amongst irresponsible dog owners is bull breeds, then placing temperament based restrictions on those breeds is a compromise worth consideration. Not without it's problems, but better than the current situation in Vic.

And notably the ACT, which does not have BSL does not have an increase of dog attacks, which per capita you would expect were BSL effective.

[m-sass]

'Aidan2' timestamp='1351231771' post='6000009']

Simple reason, m-sass. Communities which have very strict, long-standing BSL do not have a reduction in dog-related injuries or fatalities. If the concern is public safety (as you are arguing) then the more effective solutions should be implemented.

The general public question the situation for example if the people in control of the dog who killed Ayen Cohl was a Labrador and not the dog they had, would little Ayen still be alive......I would be confident to say yes she would be still alive and a Labrador would not have killed her in the same circumstances??. BSL doesn't work although had Ayen's killer been scooped up by BSL legislation prior to the attack and the dog replaced with a Labrador, BSL would have worked in this case to have saved Ayen's life more than likely.

[Salukifan]

'Aidan2' timestamp='1351231771' post='6000009']

Simple reason, m-sass. Communities which have very strict, long-standing BSL do not have a reduction in dog-related injuries or fatalities. If the concern is public safety (as you are arguing) then the more effective solutions should be implemented.

The general public question the situation for example if the people in control of the dog who killed Ayen Cohl was a Labrador and not the dog they had, would little Ayen still be alive......I would be confident to say yes she would be still alive and a Labrador would not have killed her in the same circumstances??. BSL doesn't work although had Ayen's killer been scooped up by BSL legislation prior to the attack and the dog replaced with a Labrador, BSL would have worked in this case to have saved Ayen's life more than likely.

If you think that a Labrador has never killed a child then I'm afraid you are incorrect.

If you think that a Labrador isn't powerful enough if motivated to inflict serious damage then again you are incorrect.

And this is PRECISELY the danger that BSL creates - complacency that some dog breeds are "safe" in the same manner that others are "dangerous".