Coroner Calls For Laws On Breeding Restricted Breeds

[huck house]

Even if many anti BSL are 'rednecks' ..What about considering the opinions of the RSPCA, AVA , and many other experts on the matter? Why should the public be manipulated into believing they are 'safe' when their government created legislation it hat is not based on reason and facts ?

[steamboat]

Even if many anti BSL are 'rednecks' ..What about considering the opinions of the RSPCA, AVA , and many other experts on the matter? Why should the public be manipulated into believing they are 'safe' when their government created legislation it hat is not based on reason and facts ?

Regardless of your views on the BSL?

That is not the topic.

The topic is the coroner of the Chol inquest recommendations.

One of which she recommends owners, not councils, be liable to provide evidence of their breed/s ancestory when dogs are declared to be of the restricted "type'" by an authorised council officer.

[Sheridan]

I have to ask the question: why did Steamboat join DOL? It certainly wasn't to talk about his/her own dog for which I can find two posts. The vast majority of posts Steamboat has made are in this thread and the RSPCA thread. Why? Because troll.

Moosmum, stop feeding the troll.

Edited October 25, 2012 by Sheridan

[Zhou Xuanyao]

If council reckons it to be a restricted breed however, it is of consequence, and as bull breed owners we demand that compelling evidence is produced to support the claim, 'reasonable enough best guess' is unacceptable.

Given that primarily only Bull breeds and crosses are potentially effected by BSL, if you buy a papered one instead of a BYB, you don't have to worry about what the council reckons do you??

That's right m-sass.

Most of those who don't have papered bull breed however also don't have to worry about what the council reckons because most people on the ground would sooner transfer to ditch digging than make idiots of themselves bothering people on the grounds that they might own 'Pitbulls'. For those of us that are unlucky however, I advise they demand that the onus of proof is on the council and drain every cent of their resources possible.

[Zhou Xuanyao]

Aidan has already explained how, to uphold the integrity of our legal system and part of the modicum of logic that our society is based on, the onus of proof must be on the accuser.

[steamboat]

I have to ask the question: why did Steamboat join DOL? It certainly wasn't to talk about his/her own dog for which I can find two posts. The vast majority of posts Steamboat has made are in this thread and the RSPCA thread. Why? Because troll.

Moosmum, stop feeding the troll.

On the contrary, the vast majority of posts made by me are in response to questions put & the clumsy & irrational attempts to discredit my answers.

Do you support moosmum ridiculous statement that the ANKC, their state bodies & members support the BSL & therefore agree withe ''slaughter'' (her words, not mine) of innocent dogs?

Can you show where I have ever voiced the opinion only ANKC registered pure breeds be allowed to live?

Disgusting misinformation proffered by a disgusting & irrational poster..

[steamboat]

Aidan has already explained how, to uphold the integrity of our legal system and part of the modicum of logic that our society is based on, the onus of proof must be on the accuser.

Again.

That is now.

& yet again,

That is not the topic.

Have you read the coroners proposal?

If so, have you given it any impartial & rational consideration?

Assuming you have & don't agree with the proposal. That is your opinion.

I agree with the proposal. That is my opinion.

How would you react if I told you your opinion was not valid because it didn't agree with mine, & my like minded group attacked every post you submitted to try & discredit you?

Incidentally,

Imagine you were prosecuted for keeping a restricted breed contrary to the law & three certified, accredited experts testified for the prosecution in the affirmative to a court.

You would be required to discredit their evidence to escape the consequences.

You would need to prove your dog was not of the restricted ''type'' or at the very least establish reasonable doubt.

A declaration & subsequent silence would not be considered proof of innocence.

Lawyers aren't about justice.

Lawyers are about winning.

[Jed]

Cosmolo' timestamp='1351130783' post='5998327']

But i'd also like to see councils go after the people breeding the dogs in the first place. Working at the tail end is not ideal.

Breeding dogs shouldn't be the given rights for just anyone in a free for all environment, breeding dogs IMHO needs to be controlled sooner rather than later and the breeders of crap dogs need to be held questionable as to what they are producing.

If council reckons it to be a restricted breed however, it is of consequence, and as bull breed owners we demand that compelling evidence is produced to support the claim, 'reasonable enough best guess' is unacceptable.

Given that primarily only Bull breeds and crosses are potentially effected by BSL, if you buy a papered one instead of a BYB, you don't have to worry about what the council reckons do you??

I told you the pup had no pitbull blood

Tell the ranger that and it will all good then??

You have missed the whole point of my post. I give up. While people with your mindset have input, BSL will only increase.

The point was that the dog was not a pitbull or pitbull relation, it had done nothing wrong, and yet, it would be taken away and killed. As has happened many thousands of times already.

You obviously can't see a problem with dogs being carted off the bumped off at some government whim.

m-sass

the breeders of crap dogs need to be held questionable as to what they are producing.

And what, in your opinion, is a "crap dog?"

Edited October 26, 2012 by Jed

[Zhou Xuanyao]

Yes, yes, congratulations, and good luck to you.

On the hypothetical proposed in the last paragraph, most of that sounds true enough, so what? My comments, and Aidan's, don't deny that it's the case, only that it's our preference that it wasn't for the reasons stated.

[steamboat]

Yes, yes, congratulations, and good luck to you.

On the hypothetical proposed in the last paragraph, most of that sounds true enough, so what? My comments, and Aidan's, don't deny that it's the case, only that it's our preference that it wasn't for the reasons stated.

Which is your opinion.

All opinions are valid.

[Zhou Xuanyao]

Well it depends on how you define validity steamboat. The last bit is a subjective preference, but I think it's objectively true that the present approach undermines the foundation upon which most of our legal system is based. Not going to dwell on that point any further, it's been said quite enough.

[Aidan3]

In my opinion, the sun orbits around the earth, which is flat, and all opinions are valid.

[steamboat]

In my opinion, the sun orbits around the earth, which is flat, and all opinions are valid.

One out of three ain't bad.

You are improving.

[Sheridan]

In my opinion, the sun orbits around the earth, which is flat, and all opinions are valid.

Ironic that Steamboat is screeching about valid opinions while directing people that opinions are not on topic. If people stop responding then Steamboat can shout about it all he/she likes in the vacuum which will be the only existence on this forum for him/her.

[steamboat]

Well it depends on how you define validity steamboat. The last bit is a subjective preference, but I think it's objectively true that the present approach undermines the foundation upon which most of our legal system is based. Not going to dwell on that point any further, it's been said quite enough.

There again, we have yet another opinion.

[steamboat]

In my opinion, the sun orbits around the earth, which is flat, and all opinions are valid.

Ironic that Steamboat is screeching about valid opinions while directing people that opinions are not on topic. If people stop responding then Steamboat can shout about it all he/she likes in the vacuum which will be the only existence on this forum for him/her.

Actually,

I agreed with the sentiment & then pointed out that, howevr, it wasn't the topic.

But don't let the truth get in your way, you haven't so far so I expect it wont happen in the future.

[moosmum]

Sigh.

For the record and those who may not be able to follow: No where have I "stated" or even sugested that ANKC,state bodies or their members support BSL.

[Sheridan]

Sigh.

For the record and those who may not be able to follow: No where have I "stated" or even sugested that ANKC,state bodies or their members support BSL.

Ignore, ignore, ignore. Seriously, DOL becomes a much better place when such people just disappear from threads.

[mantis]

In my opinion, the sun orbits around the earth, which is flat, and all opinions are valid.

Ironic that Steamboat is screeching about valid opinions while directing people that opinions are not on topic. If people stop responding then Steamboat can shout about it all he/she likes in the vacuum which will be the only existence on this forum for him/her.

Agree.

Edited to add, on a Footy forum I'm a member of, they have an "ignore" function, where you put members who's crap you don't want to read on, it's fantastic, would be good if DOL had it.

Edited October 26, 2012 by mantis

[steamboat]

What Megan said.

It is completely irrelevant to the legislation how i keep, train and contain my dogs. They can still do exactly what Megan has described- regardless of how responsible i am. How on earth can i and people like me be responsible for our own destiny in this situation!

What's wrong with a bit of creative management........we are talking box tickers here......what would you need to produce for a ranger to leave happily without your dog on a seizure mission

In my experience (which is more than you would think), a switched on and Hitleresque lawyer!!

m-sass

The point is: If you take a punt buying Bully crossbreed pups or dogs with Pitbull appearance and lets face it, rarely do you see two dogs declared as Pitbull's look the same, it's a breed that has quite a wide range of accepted features, colours, size etc, you could always have faced a problem with dogs like this long before the tightening of laws and crossbreed targeting and the policing of, nothing has changed other than you used to be able to get away with Pitbull featured dogs more easily and lies were more easily accepted as to the dogs determined breed. With that said, no one is forced to buy a Bully crossbreed pup, they could have bought a papered Staffy or Amstaff if they like that style of dog and remained safe and off the radar?

And do you think it is fair, reasonable and equitable that someone should acquire a cute puppy which is the product of two crossbred dogs - neither of which have any pitbull - and when it grows up, it is tan with light eyes, it never does anything wrong, and it is sitting on the lawn one day, minding its own business when the ACO comes and grabs it, and the council will not let the owners see it again, or have the body returned after they have knocked it off?

Can you tell me why that dog should die?

It's not a pitbull. It has never done anything wrong. It should be killed, why?

Someone who only thinks purebred dogs should continue to live, is not, imho, a true dog lover.

Mantis, of course you are correct.

Its even worse when they actively promote and support B.S.L to that end.Thats more than just not caring,or prefering Pedigrees.Thats hate.

Extremism.

I also think they are who they say.Different styles.Even scarier.

I keep trying to find a way to say it with out offending any one.I can't but that attitude is fostered here on Dol.(and else where )There has to be a better way to bring change than labeling anyone who breeds out side of the KCs as irresponsible.Mostly it may be so, but its not a given.Its taught to be a given.These guys believe it whole heartedly enough to cheer on a slaughter.

If the KCs could find a way to include non pedigree dogs, (Appendix registries? Novelty show events? Something?)They could be gaining new members who learn about goals and purpose. The Kcs would gain a big voice.And be given some thing new to to measure themselves against,even if only in novelty events.

Otherwise,there are new registries popping up that cater only for D.D and commercial farms who are just as extreme,or more, towards the KCS. They will take up the slack and the KCs will suffer for that.

If I get booted for these views,so be it.

Who said that?