Fine Tuning The Ibd Diet

[Stitch]

For all those Dolers who followed my previous topic, we went to the Internal Medicine Specialist yesterday.

The SBD's (silent but deadly farts) that my girl currently produces had to be addressed....plus the poos are not as formed as they should be indicating that there is still a gut problem going on albiet no where near as bad as it was.

The next step along the 'treatment road' is 3 days on Panacur....this to ensure she doesn't have a parasite problem.

Then following that a course of Metronidazole (Flagyl)thus eliminating two possible causes for the farts and the loose bowel movements.

Vet maintains that dogs on Hills Z/D are able to have normal firm non-smelly bowel movements so my girl still has a problem.

After we have worked through all the above treatments I will then change her food to Royal Canin Hyperallergenic diet and see if that helps.

I was disappointed to hear that the specialist vet was not at all interested in promoting a natural food diet as I am quite willing to cook for my girl. He did however concede my theory that she may be reacting to the liver in the Z/D and suggested I switch her to Royal Canin Hyperallergenic diet when the treatments are finished.

It really annoys me when vets don't rate a natural diet......perhaps I am being harsh and they are erring on the side of caution but many vets tend to have a very condescending attitude to anything that isn't science based. I am certainly intending to try cooking for her again once we have tried all of the above.....only one thing concerns me......What can you add to meat and cooked veges/pasta to give her all the vitamins and minerals she needs for a complete diet on a long term basis?

Edited September 26, 2012 by Stitch

[megan_]

The thing is that unprocessed food is actually harder to digest, which is why he might be advocating processed food. I have diverticulitis and when it flairs up I need to eat simple, highly processed food (eg white bread). If I have anything healthy (eg raw veg, wholemeal bread, nuts etc) I am in extreme pain. Unprocessed food makes your digestive system work harder, which is part of what makes it healthy.

If she were my dog I'd follow their advice, wait for things to settle down and then speak to the specialist about an alternative. Trying things that are normally healthy might impact her gut more. Also, he might be hesitant to recommend it because home cooking does increase the risk of bacterial infection (eg touching meat then touching veges, not wahsing your hands for 1 min+ after touching meat etc). Fine for a healthy dog but not for one with issues.

[Stitch]

I am talking about a diet of cooked protein source plus cooked veges, rice or pasta not raw unprocessed foods.

I now want to avoid feeding the things that are in the Hills/Royal Canin foods like liver (which I know she can't tolerate normally)to try to improve her digestion. Even though the Hills Z/d (and the Royal Canin) is hydrolised the protein molecules which would be shorter because of this process, are still able to upset her as it seems she just can't digest the liver well and the vet agreed. Also things like soy and beet pulp in normal dogfood produce farts for my healthy dogs so I should imagine are going to be worse for a dog with a gut problem.

These manufacturers are depending on the hydrolisation process to make the food acceptable to dogs with gut etc. problems but that doesn't mean that they are going to be a perfect fit for all dogs that it is fed to. There are always going to be some dogs that have varying degrees of intolerance to it.

We were lucky as the Hills was great to stabilise her, to get her eating again, tolerating food well and putting some weight back on BUT she has hit a point where some fine tuning needs to be done and I think she now needs a more suitable food than the Hills Z/d but as I said we will try the Royal Canin first.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Stitch

[megan_]

Cooked fresh is still unprocessed though, therefore harder to digest. Cooked meat is harder to digest than highly processed meat. Did the specialist mention why he was against it?

[Stitch]

He only said that I would have to introduce one source of protein at a time....which is normal....he didn't have any comments about the digestability of a home prepared diet.

I have found over the years that vets have a preference for commercial dogfood....I on the other hand have found that my dogs usually do way better on food that isn't as highly processed.

[karly101]

There is a big nutrition book that your vet may have on their book shelf (http://www.amazon.com/Small-Animal-Clinical-Nutrition-Michael/dp/0945837054) - it includes some home made diets and fantastic info on nutritional content of different foods that you can include to create a balanced home made diet. Perhaps take a look and make up your diet and then show the specialist - I think they worry that most people aren't going to the effort to create a balanced home made diet as it is far more difficult than the commercial diets.

[Gaz & Kaz]

Stitch,

I can imagain what you are going through. I have been jumping through hoops for a year now. My boy was diagnoised in May with IBD via a scan. He has been on a diet of cooked chicken and rice with vitamins and extras. It is very time consuming and I have always been a avid raw feeder. I too find the vets just want to sell commercial kibble. I have done extensive reaserach and have asked many a vet but have come to the conclusion that if the kibble is going to work, well that is that!!! After purcahing all the ingredients and cooking it it is cheaper to buy the RC Hypoallergenic. I'm currenlty trying to change him over from the cooked chicken and rice receipt to RC Hypo. I do have a problem that it has fish oil in it as he came back with a allergy to Potatoes, Carrots, Fix Mix, Turkey, Brewers Yeast and Wheat. So we are keeping our fingers crossed that it agrees with his system. As I said he was on this cooked chicken and rice diet but he was still having very bad runny and smelly poo's. I got one tested and it came back with heaps of bacteria and now he is on Flagyl and weaning of his Macrolone. It is a long road to recovery or control and I take my hat off to those people that see their beloved pets through this long process. I just hope that you can find a kibble that agrees with your dog's stomach. I can always forward my receipt to you if you wish.

[JulesP]

Just to encourage you - it is really brill when you find a food your sick doggy does well on. I still get a kick out of Amber scoffing her food after a year of her looking like I was trying to kill her at meal times.

Hills was probably second last on my list of premium foods I would feed too. Had never used their products and nearly died when I read the ingredients of L/D. But it works and my dog is alive. The whole thing was a massive mind set lesson for me. The best food for your dog is the one that it does well on. Forget what you think is right, food snobbery etc.

My specialist did give me a home made diet sheet btw but the people on my liver list advised me to use the Hills due to the severity of my dog's condition.

[Stitch]

Thank you all for your encouragement and the recipes.

Early days yet BUT I transferred my girl from Hills Z/d to Royal Canin Hypoallergenic and WOW what a difference.

She has stopped shaking with pain and farting and is now doing nice firm, dry poos! Happy Dance!!!

I can't believe the difference!!!

I always thought that the liver in the Hills was the problem....Royal Canin has chicken liver in it...I am guessing that Hills liver is from a different source.

It is soooo wonderful to see this little girl happy, wanting to play, and now pooing twice daily like normal dogs instead on once a day doing blackish soft poos.

She is obviously feeling soooo much better!!

My criticism of the vets advice was that he was quite happy to keep her on Hills Z/d without trying to see if things could be improved by fine tuning the diet. He was happy to medicate her instead.

He too prescribed a Flagyl type antibiotic but now it looks like I won't have to use it unless she relapses.

I am sooo happy I have put my plans to try the home cooked diet on hold....hopefully these good times will continue.