"the Tail End" - S B S Insight Tonight

[Salukifan]

Well with all the glitzy glamour websites and facebook pages coming from DD breeders etc

No wonder people buy on impulse...

They buy on impulse because they dont' think the decision through. They just get a dog because they can. I bet your average car purchaser does way more homework than a dog purchaser and yet the dog would generally be around long after the car has been replaced.

[Alyosha]

Plus it's easy to buy farmed pups. You just pay the money and get what you want. In these days of people wanting less and less face to face interaction with others it is a big selling point. Right or wrong, many people don't want a drawn out process and scrutiny placed upon them when buying. Contact can be a quick call, text or email, and delivery. Fits with societies expectations unfortunately.

[Squidgy]

Well with all the glitzy glamour websites and facebook pages coming from DD breeders etc

No wonder people buy on impulse...

They buy on impulse because they dont' think the decision through. They just get a dog because they can. I bet your average car purchaser does way more homework than a dog purchaser and yet the dog would generally be around long after the car has been replaced.

I am just saying that it would not help matters , seeing cute pics shoved in your face, sparkly fonts and all sorts of "hybrid" mumbo jumbo clouding the truth

[Christina]

I have just watched this programme. Same old comments & various views depending on their own agenda or belief of whoever is speaking at the time.

I just cannot comprehend how the huge legal & licensed puppy farm that has over 300 breeding dogs & produces puppies constantly as a business can be allowed while small hobby breeders whose handful of dogs living as loved family is penalised.

What the bloody answer is to all this I have absolutely no idea. Just shoot people

[asal]

I have just watched this programme. Same old comments & various views depending on their own agenda or belief of whoever is speaking at the time.

I just cannot comprehend how the huge legal & licensed puppy farm that has over 300 breeding dogs & produces puppies constantly as a business can be allowed while small hobby breeders whose handful of dogs living as loved family is penalised.

What the bloody answer is to all this I have absolutely no idea. Just shoot people

my suspicion is only the big businesses can supply the requirements that now have to be met

Unless you like the olden days had sufficient outside income to keep them regardless of cost.

in australia a significant number of purebred breeders are retired and their dogs are their hobby but they have been the the prime target for eradication for quite some time now.

if you have more than the one or two 'pets' that are entire once its past 4 to 6 AND breed then you are easy to lable a hoarder now. If you are foolish and keep not only the ones you are breeding from but the retired then you are going to be a 'hoarder' sooner rather than later.

as for the 'experts' on assessing temprement in dogs at shelters i couldnt believe they expected to assess them within 3 days?

ive rehomed dogs that took 7 months to recover from the loss of their previous owner and begin trust and enjoy the company of strangers. whatever happened to patience?

There are many wonderful breeds that 'suspicion of strangers' is part of the breeds description for goodness sake.

only recently I rehomed a young dog who took three weeks to decide her new owners were nice after all.

by the first week they were feeling pretty down that she would not come to them but just followed them, so I went back to see what was the problem. Not sure what was going on in her little head, but soon as she saw me comming she went ballistic with excitement, so much so they couldnt believe it wass the same dog. so i sat and watched the interaction with them and she was manipulating them to give her what she wanted, ie food , exeercise and nice bed but didnt trust them to touch her. so I showed them how she was trained to drop on command then instead of trying to pat her on the head scratch her under the ear and butt of the tail whereupon to their astonishment she rolled over for tummy rubs. I had showed them all this before they took her but had forgotten. and thought her standing back and just looking at them as personal rejection not misunderstading in communication by both parties was the problem.

they cant believe she is the same dog now,she is so happy and joyus to be with them now, people just dont seem to know how to communicate with dogs anymore?

a NORMAL adult dog is not programmed to go racing up to a total stranger and greet them as a long lost friend. only SOME dogs do that and they ARE not the majority, yet although they take longer to gain their trust they will be faitfull all their lives and not dissapper with the first stranger who walks past if the gate is left open.

I cant believe these so called shelter people dont learn this and instead kill any dog that doesnt adore strangers on sight and call anything else unsocalised?

ive rehomed show ring champions who can be handled by complete strangers but sure wouldnt go running to them. they know who they love and it isnt everyone you have to earn their trust and a gentle rump scratch and rub after meeting a new dog instead of thumping it on the head, is the fastest way to become their new best friend yet it astonishes me how so few people know that???? a friend couldnt understand why his dog wouldnt come to him so i watch them interacting. he never once rewarded his dog when he did come.

so when he sat down beside me and slid my hand to his tail and massaged his butt. only a minute but he then followed me everywhere each time sitting beside me for another butt rub, after that all i had to to was call him and he came flying for more.

once i got it thrugh to his owner that reward is worth a zillion words their problem was no more.

it really doesnt take much to become friends with a strange dog or cat but you cant just expect them to like you on sight or off to the kill pen surely

[Squidgy]

I have just watched this programme. Same old comments & various views depending on their own agenda or belief of whoever is speaking at the time.

I just cannot comprehend how the huge legal & licensed puppy farm that has over 300 breeding dogs & produces puppies constantly as a business can be allowed while small hobby breeders whose handful of dogs living as loved family is penalised.

What the bloody answer is to all this I have absolutely no idea. Just shoot people

my suspicion is only the big businesses can supply the requirements that now have to be met

Unless you like the olden days had sufficient outside income to keep them regardless of cost.

in australia a significant number of purebred breeders are retired and their dogs are their hobby but they have been the the prime target for eradication for quite some time now.

if you have more than the one or two 'pets' that are entire once its past 4 to 6 AND breed then you are easy to lable a hoarder now. If you are foolish and keep not only the ones you are breeding from but the retired then you are going to be a 'hoarder' sooner rather than later.

as for the 'experts' on assessing temprement in dogs at shelters i couldnt believe they expected to assess them within 3 days?

ive rehomed dogs that took 7 months to recover from the loss of their previous owner and begin trust and enjoy the company of strangers. whatever happened to patience?

There are many wonderful breeds that 'suspicion of strangers' is part of the breeds description for goodness sake.

only recently I rehomed a young dog who took three weeks to decide her new owners were nice after all.

by the first week they were feeling pretty down that she would not come to them but just followed them, so I went back to see what was the problem. Not sure what was going on in her little head, but soon as she saw me comming she went ballistic with excitement, so much so they couldnt believe it wass the same dog. so i sat and watched the interaction with them and she was manipulating them to give her what she wanted, ie food , exeercise and nice bed but didnt trust them to touch her. so I showed them how she was trained to drop on command then instead of trying to pat her on the head scratch her under the ear and butt of the tail whereupon to their astonishment she rolled over for tummy rubs. I had showed them all this before they took her but had forgotten. and thought her standing back and just looking at them as personal rejection not misunderstading in communication by both parties was the problem.

they cant believe she is the same dog now,she is so happy and joyus to be with them now, people just dont seem to know how to communicate with dogs anymore?

a NORMAL adult dog is not programmed to go racing up to a total stranger and greet them as a long lost friend. only SOME dogs do that and they ARE not the majority, yet although they take longer to gain their trust they will be faitfull all their lives and not dissapper with the first stranger who walks past if the gate is left open.

I cant believe these so called shelter people dont learn this and instead kill any dog that doesnt adore strangers on sight and call anything else unsocalised?

ive rehomed show ring champions who can be handled by complete strangers but sure wouldnt go running to them. they know who they love and it isnt everyone you have to earn their trust and a gentle rump scratch and rub after meeting a new dog instead of thumping it on the head, is the fastest way to become their new best friend yet it astonishes me how so few people know that???? a friend couldnt understand why his dog wouldnt come to him so i watch them interacting. he never once rewarded his dog when he did come.

so when he sat down beside me and slid my hand to his tail and massaged his butt. only a minute but he then followed me everywhere each time sitting beside me for another butt rub, after that all i had to to was call him and he came flying for more.

once i got it thrugh to his owner that reward is worth a zillion words their problem was no more.

it really doesnt take much to become friends with a strange dog or cat but you cant just expect them to like you on sight or off to the kill pen surely

Yup because dogs that have spent years loving their human family are supposed to just forget in 72hours..... we all knew that remember.......grrrr freaking ignorance

its not euthanasia its straight out murder killing for convenience

[OSoSwift]

I also get sick of the crap about if you buy a dog, a shelter dog dies. No it won't because I won't be getting one!!!!

[Sparassidae]

I think impulse buying has very little to do with it.

The fact that it's socially acceptable to re-home your dogs for poor reasons is.

[Christina]

Good point asal. People not only want instant gratification they also want instant love. Expecting it with no time or effort.

I have re homed a few adult cats. 2 were having problems & I did a home visit to both & found a few snags which were soon sorted out & they settled & were happy.

Another was in a new home for 24 hours & the person asked me to collect him as he had hissed at her & she got scared. I had visited this home first & it seemed ideal. This wonderful cat is now with someone else. I have a calender full of photos of him & reports of him being the best cat that I have ever had in my life. These may have all been PTS if they had left from a pound & returned. Its all a business thing & about time, money & convenience really.

[tdierikx]

Pounds and shelters have a finite amount of space - and those who instigate a foster care program or work with rescue have a significantly lower euth rate than those who don't. This is a proven fact...

The numbers of animals rehomed via foster care programs and rescue groups is a statistic that seems to have been missed out on in this debate. Cold hard figures are what will do the convincing - not slogans and buzz words and emotive anecdotes.

T.

[Sheridan]

I also get sick of the crap about if you buy a dog, a shelter dog dies. No it won't because I won't be getting one!!!!

This.

[Whipitgood]

Yes, i started a thread about it at the time but had to delete it because i raised merry hell about it all and posted about it on social media and it got back to the RSCPA CEO who threatened litigation.

I never found out what happened to Izzy, i took her and the pups in for a health check one day, went back to collect them and they refused to let me have them back. I was told it wasnt healthy for Izzy to be with me any longer because she was bonding to me and they wanted to temperament test her away from me ... in a kennel situation ... still feeding 4 week old babies - yep, grand idea!!

Then they expressed concerns about the pups temperaments and wanted to assess them. I kept calling for updates and wanted to know when i could have them back and they never returned my calls. I then find out through a vet friend 2 weeks later that they had euthanased all but one puppy for "neck pain" and temperament issues. They were also concerned about Izzys temperament and im guessing she was euthed too.

Because i caused such an uproar about it and many people who had been following Izzy and her babies also gave the RSPCA grief - I had a meeting with the CEO, nothing was resolved, everything was covered up, he was not transparent about anything which only made them look even more dodgy!

A vet friend of mine was adopting 2 of the puppies, he also created a huge scene about it and also had a meeting with the CEO to blast them. Nothing was resolved there either. It was a long, sad saga and i have video footage of happy healthy Cavalier babies and their mum, playing with my children and behaving perfectly normal, only to be euthanased in a very underhanded, suspicious manner.

It was my first and last dealings with the RSPCA and fostering.

Is that true? Did they seriously temp test 4 week old puppies and bump them off ? Cav pups?

The fact is there are a lot of people making a lot of money out of all areas of "rescue" who have vested interest in pushing one "solution" or another .

At the end of the day the question has to be what is the best solution for the dogs not them, their groups or their bank accounts.

[mita]

Plus it's easy to buy farmed pups. You just pay the money and get what you want. In these days of people wanting less and less face to face interaction with others it is a big selling point. Right or wrong, many people don't want a drawn out process and scrutiny placed upon them when buying. Contact can be a quick call, text or email, and delivery. Fits with societies expectations unfortunately.

Alyosha, an excellent point and one I've heard out of the mouths of people looking to buy dogs.

When I've mention buying via rescue to some people, they've replied, 'No, rescue asks too many questions!' I've commented that's a good thing for both potential owner and dog. A good match prevents the dog being seen not to live up to expectations (which is precisely the major reason for dumping dogs that turned up in a UQ study).

And in relation to adopting from an ethical registered breeder, one adopter said she almost had to pass as much scrutiny as when she adopted a child. But, in this case, the adopter was saying that with full approval. She saw it as reflecting how valued the dogs were to that breeder. And would also reflect the thought, love and care that went into them. She meant it as a compliment to the breeder. But, there'd be lots of self-centred people who'd see such screening as 'too much', especially a purchase can be done elsewhere with minimum contact.

So means of purchase would be another factor which would either increase a dog's chances of being later dumped... or decrease them.

[mita]

Pounds and shelters have a finite amount of space - and those who instigate a foster care program or work with rescue have a significantly lower euth rate than those who don't. This is a proven fact...

The numbers of animals rehomed via foster care programs and rescue groups is a statistic that seems to have been missed out on in this debate. Cold hard figures are what will do the convincing - not slogans and buzz words and emotive anecdotes.

T.

And excellent points, too, TD.

The CEO RSPCA Q'ld publicly gave his own opinion that an ideal animal welfare system should include an extensive, healthy network of foster-care. Makes so much sense that a dog destined for home-life be cared for, in a home-life situation. As well as extending space.

Just BTW, I've had good and helpful experiences with RSPCA Q'ld over the years. re tibbies. More recently, their Behavioral Helpline has helped people I know nip problems in the bud.. And, their cooperative work with some community members has prevented a little tibbie becoming one more nasty statistic. It often takes a number of hands to hold the safety net. In this case registered breeders, caring members of the community and RSPCA Q'ld joined hands to get that outcome. Bless 'em all!

Edited September 27, 2012 by mita

[darlingdog]

Pounds and shelters have a finite amount of space - and those who instigate a foster care program or work with rescue have a significantly lower euth rate than those who don't. This is a proven fact...

The numbers of animals rehomed via foster care programs and rescue groups is a statistic that seems to have been missed out on in this debate. Cold hard figures are what will do the convincing - not slogans and buzz words and emotive anecdotes.

T.

And excellent points, too, TD.

The CEO RSPCA Q'ld publicly gave his own opinion that an ideal animal welfare system should include an extensive, healthy network of foster-care. Makes so much sense that a dog destined for home-life be cared for, in a home-life situation. As well as extending space.

Just BTW, I've had good and helpful experiences with RSPCA Q'ld over the years. re tibbies. More recently, their Behavioral Helpline has helped people I know nip problems in the bud.. And, their cooperative work with some community members has prevented a little tibbie becoming one more nasty statistic. It often takes a number of hands to hold the safety net. In this case registered breeders, caring members of the community and RSPCA Q'ld joined hands to get that outcome. Bless 'em all!

Yes I too would like to say how good the RSPCA Wacol shelter are to deal with in regards to our breed rescue. The rescue co-ordinator there is more than helpful.

[Little Gifts]

Is this really as simple as numbers?

One in four households in Australia owns a dog and yet on the other hand it is increasingly difficult to rent with an animal. The outcome from this would have to be more surrenders and rehomes being necessary. We could also include the fact we have an ageing population and the elderly who move to nursing homes can't take their animals with them. So two ways of addressing this is having educational programs in place educating landlords and encouraging pet bonds and programs in place for surrendering/rehoming dogs who belonged to the elderly (inc networks with hospices, nursing homes and senior citz). In other words get the word out there about alternatives to reduce pts of healthy dogs already used to home environments.

The next numbers issue is related to the fact we have high pet ownership in this country which has to be feeding the breeding for profit industry (puppy farmers and byb's - I have a great deal of respect for good breeders). If pounds and large organisations are maintaining or not reducing their kill rates that has to equate to either the same number of pups or more being bred each year. So don't we need to reduce the number of pups being born each and every year too if this figure is ever to reduce? Less puppies this year become less adults with behavioural issues next year that end up in pounds. Less unwanted litters of puppies this year also mean less puppies ending up in poor condition in pounds and shelters. Obviously compulsory desexing in some council areas is not addressing the overall problem so we simply have to look at the bulk breeders and limit those (if we can't stop them altogether). Less being born has to equal less being unwanted and killed at some point in the continuum.

Why can't the RSPCA get real about 'animal cruelty' and do more with their education programs? If they can make a weekly national tv show surely they could add some important messages in there or do special topic educational programs too? Network with rescue groups already running programs that help the elderly rehome their dogs or do some control group work following the life of a puppy farm puppy or even show some realistic stats comparisons about what you get for your money for a dog from rescue, a bulk breeder or a registered breeder. It seems like they don't want to offend anybody but the animals they are supposed to be protecting.

[asal]

its far from as simple as that, for example i rehomed a girl whose owner had died with another pensioner, unfortunately although she was beginning to bond with him he felt he wanted her already leaping into his lap so returned the perfectly healthy sound girl to me and puppy sat a cute little pom pet shop puppy over the weekend, instant affection and bond and a man who had to go without food to pay for that $1,000 pet shop puppy, who incidently told him was going cheap????????? because it had patella in both legs preferred to pay money he could not afford rather than put even a few more days gaining the trust of an adorable AND FREE adult.

so how do you change that mindset?

when i saw him a year later he wass sorry he had not let her have more time with him, is cute pom had cost him a fortune but hindsight is somewhat late for many people.

there is too little patience anymore and certainly not much knowledge about animals, they are not programable toys never have been and never will be they are all individuals and all puppies teethe and according to the breed and their strength destroy stuff. many breeds end up in the pounds about that stage through no fault of their own but lack of patience on the part of their owners. too much instand gratification these days

[WoofnHoof]

I think impulse buying has very little to do with it.

The fact that it's socially acceptable to re-home your dogs for poor reasons is.

I agree with this, breed research and owner education is key but also the social factors need to be addressed, plenty of people think its fine to get rid of the dog if they move or go on holiday and they generally aren't pulled up for it.

[mita]

there is too little patience anymore and certainly not much knowledge about animals, they are not programable toys never have been and never will be they are all individuals and all puppies teethe and according to the breed and their strength destroy stuff. many breeds end up in the pounds about that stage through no fault of their own but lack of patience on the part of their owners. too much instand gratification these days

Good point, asal. Many people think that 'good' behaviour and the 'perfect' pet dog should just happen. They have no idea that behaviour comes with training...and, as you say, also knowledge of breed characteristics.

The main reason given for surrendering/dumping, in a study by UQ, was that the dog didn't meet the owner's expectations. And those expectations were likely what you've suggested. Should be pre-programmed to become 'good'!

To be fair, many people respond well when given support in understanding and training their dog. And have a big 'Ah ha!' moment.

Like with our first Sheltie who had Separation Anxiety... except I didn't know that condition... I just thought we had a psycho dog who'd rip the sunroom cushions to pieces when left alone.

But, when a behaviourist vet explained to me what was involved....and how it could be fixed, I had a big 'Ah ha!' moment. And the vet was right... with consistency & time doing the fairly simple things directed, the Sheltie became fine.

That UQ study had a suggestion that maybe a 'remedial behaviour service' could be provided by pounds/shelters to owners who wanted to dump/surrender, so that fixable problems could be fixed. They said costs could be looked at because, that could prove cheaper than the cost of taking those dogs in.

But, of course, that approach would still require an owner who's willing to put in the time and effort of training. And there'd still be some (many?) people who aren't.. or can't.

Edited September 27, 2012 by mita

[❤LovesPoodles❤]

My link

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