"the Tail End" - S B S Insight Tonight

[asal]

I'm glad I did not watch the programme.

The RSPCA is now a totally different creature to what it was many years ago when I "adopted" my first dog. I only wish they would do now what they did then for that poor dog - and for myself as a very young, first time owner. She was a badly neglected dog with health issues. These days she would not last five minutes, let alone be rehomed.

Minimax - lighten up. There are worse things in this world.

yes, too true, like the RSPCA for example

one even lost her home, everythig,I understand, their legal fees took it all

the last pages are a serious must read for anyone who thinks they cant lose all but the clothes they are wearing if they fall foul of that mob.

BUT it doesnt change the fact that this is in it. $295,588.99 attract their attention and you could be next still with no ombusman or anyone else yet to run to for appeal who would want to risk being next?

Edited September 26, 2012 by asal

[asal]

well we cant risk that can we

is that fixed enough?

Edited September 26, 2012 by asal

[megan_]

I thought this was a thread about the euthanasia rates of pets, not livestock? Every time that woman's name gets mentioned threads get deleted due to legal issues. It would be a pity to have this entire discussion lost.

[silentchild]

Whoa, reading some of the comments on the Insight SBS facebook page makes me despair for humanity.

There's also a lot of extremists saying registered ethical breeders are no better, since with every purebred pup being produced, another one dies in the pounds, I'm so sick of this stupid argument, seems like since this episode airs a lot of people feel it should be get your dog from a rescue or Nothing At All, I think purebreed breeders have a lot of work to do in enlightening the public on why we breed and the benefits of purebred dogs, and stats on how many dogs from ethical breeders end up in pounds etc. I wish there would have been more focus on differentiating between ethical breeders and backyard breeders on the show, a lot of pound dogs tend to be Oops litters from BYBs or have problems that resulted from "breeders" not doing the appropriate health testing, etc.

Sigh.

[darlingdog]

I think it is a bit of a myth that they fail dogs for showing interest in prey? There are always plenty of dogs with "not good with cats" against their name.

Megan I do breed rescue...pointers...we have had one particular RSPCA shelter failing them on temp test because they were high energy and would chase cats....we know for a fact at least one pointer has been euthed on this assessment even though we could have homed the dog with no problems. EVERY young pointer who goes into care in that facility will likely fail the same test..and we won't be able to save any of them because they will only work with us AFTER a dog has PASSED his temp test. It's extremely frustrating and nice dogs are dying for no good reason. It all depends on the shelter staff...some RSPCA shelters have released dogs to us and they are wonderful shelter staff to work with. So is it a myth...sadly not.

[Alyosha]

Sad thing about the arrogant puppy farmer is that he can still sell his wares and make such impressive profit - selling 40 pups a week and employing 10 people (maybe not full time...), plus running costs?? Either the prices are very impressive or he is selling more than 40.

If nobody bought them he wouldn't breed them and his farm would close.

[Sparassidae]

Do we want the government defining what we can and can't do with our animals?

Yes, we do and they already do. I don't believe there is anyone out there who wants the government to sit back and let a free for all happen in the animal industries.

The question is where should the line be drawn as opposed to whether or not they should be able to interfere.

[minimax]

Do we want the government defining what we can and can't do with our animals?

Yes, we do and they already do. I don't believe there is anyone out there who wants the government to sit back and let a free for all happen in the animal industries.

The question is where should the line be drawn as opposed to whether or not they should be able to interfere.

But they do let a free for all happen in the animal industry

What is the government doing to stop puppy farming/puppy factories, excessive over-breeding or dogs kept in deplorable conditions?

[WreckitWhippet]

There's also a lot of extremists saying registered ethical breeders are no better, since with every purebred pup being produced, another one dies in the pounds, I'm so sick of this stupid argument, Sigh.

PETA at its very best, they managed to market that message well.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Pav Lova

[mita]

Some kudos:

Two Ladies Up the Back. Both described socialisation needs for puppies brilliantly & pointed out that smug 300+ oddle man was not keeping the dogs in a companion dog situation... yet was selling puppies as companion pets.

Thank you :) I was the second who questioned him re: socialisation of puppies and my friend was the first who mentioned the keeping of the breeding bitches. I had a lot more I wanted to say that night but unfortunately I was supposed to be there in an 'observational' capacity only. Couldn't keep my mouth shut at the puppy farming b##stard though.

Glad you spoke up. The two of you got huge cheers at our place, and not only for what you said, but how you said it.

Like all the others I've given kudos to, you gave lie to the smear that those with animal welfare concerns are extremist hysterical screamers. No, you & the others came over as articulate, focused and rational. You made the world of animal welfare advocacy proud.

I agree with you... the short time didn't allow so many other issues to be brought up or developed further.

[Staffyluv]

There's also a lot of extremists saying registered ethical breeders are no better, since with every purebred pup being produced, another one dies in the pounds, I'm so sick of this stupid argument, Sigh.

PETA at its very best, they managed to market that message well.

Honestly, does anyone really believe that a pound pup dies because a purebred breeder breeds??

I know there are extremists but generally I think common sense prevails and the average person does not think that if a purebred breeder has a litter that means that pound dogs won't get a home.

If breeding was left to the purebred dog breeders, I doubt we would end up with so many in pounds.

Not breeding pets (compulsory desexing) and the removal of puppy mills would make the world a lot nicer place for mans best friend...

[Salukifan]

There's also a lot of extremists saying registered ethical breeders are no better, since with every purebred pup being produced, another one dies in the pounds, I'm so sick of this stupid argument, Sigh.

PETA at its very best, they managed to market that message well.

Honestly, does anyone really believe that a pound pup dies because a purebred breeder breeds??...

Clearly the answer is an unequivocable YES. And they aren't shy about serving it up to potential purebred puppy buyers either.

[Sheridan]

There's also a lot of extremists saying registered ethical breeders are no better, since with every purebred pup being produced, another one dies in the pounds, I'm so sick of this stupid argument, Sigh.

PETA at its very best, they managed to market that message well.

Honestly, does anyone really believe that a pound pup dies because a purebred breeder breeds??

I know there are extremists but generally I think common sense prevails and the average person does not think that if a purebred breeder has a litter that means that pound dogs won't get a home.

If breeding was left to the purebred dog breeders, I doubt we would end up with so many in pounds.

Not breeding pets (compulsory desexing) and the removal of puppy mills would make the world a lot nicer place for mans best friend...

I think you have a positive view of people's ability to comprehend basic logic.

[mita]

There's also a lot of extremists saying registered ethical breeders are no better, since with every purebred pup being produced, another one dies in the pounds, I'm so sick of this stupid argument, Sigh.

PETA at its very best, they managed to market that message well.

Honestly, does anyone really believe that a pound pup dies because a purebred breeder breeds??

Only someone whose maths knowledge is at a pre-Grade One level. And believe the world is explained by all or nothing.

Dogs turn up in pounds because of known risk factors. There is evidence that dogs from registered purebred breeders have a lower risk factor.

No, that does not mean that all dogs from registered breeders will not finish up dumped. Nor does it mean that all dogs who don't come from registered are at high risk. It means that, statistically, dogs from registered breeders tend to be at lower risk and, therefore, chance of being dumped is less.

In fact, registered breeders who follow a responsible path in breeding/numbers of litters/raising/homing their dogs are actually preventing dumping, because they're lowering risk factors by doing that.

Edited September 26, 2012 by mita

[minimax]

There's also a lot of extremists saying registered ethical breeders are no better, since with every purebred pup being produced, another one dies in the pounds, I'm so sick of this stupid argument, Sigh.

PETA at its very best, they managed to market that message well.

Honestly, does anyone really believe that a pound pup dies because a purebred breeder breeds??...

Clearly the answer is an unequivocable YES. And they aren't shy about serving it up to potential purebred puppy buyers either.

That's like saying everyone someone w*nks, a kitten dies.

[tdierikx]

Whenever our rescue has pure breed dogs/pups for adoption, we get a heck of a lot of people applying for them. A good number of these people applying will come armed with all of the questions they should be asking a registered breeder - health checks, hip scores, etc...

As we are usually not privy to that sort of information, and can't 100% guarantee that no issues will ever arise with the dog they are applying for, we tend to advise those people to seek out a registered (and ethical) breeder that CAN give them all the assurances they are asking for.

Funnily enough - most potential adopters will say to us that a registered breeder charges more for their dogs than those in rescue... so we tell them the initial outlay is worth it if the dog will be sound mentally and physically because it was bred from the best stock and under the best conditions. Most seem to get the idea then...

Not all people in rescue are completely anti registered breeders... *grin*

Shoe on the other foot though... there aren't a lot of registered breeders who think very highly of those of us in rescue either. Many of us are actually quite sane and ethical, and are genuinely in the "game" because we feel we can provide a service that can help homeless adoptable pets find new homes - nothing more, nothing less. We are just as ashamed and mortified by the actions of the activists, bleeding hearts, and radicals as the purebred community is... trust me on that one, OK?

Ummm... as for reporting actions undertaken by inspectors from the RSPCA... would they not fall under ICAC?

T.

[Staffyluv]

There's also a lot of extremists saying registered ethical breeders are no better, since with every purebred pup being produced, another one dies in the pounds, I'm so sick of this stupid argument, Sigh.

PETA at its very best, they managed to market that message well.

Honestly, does anyone really believe that a pound pup dies because a purebred breeder breeds??

Only someone whose maths knowledge is at a pre-Grade One level. And believe the world is explained by all or nothing.

Dogs turn up in pounds because of known risk factors. There is evidence that dogs from purebred breeders have a lower risk factor.

No, that does not mean that all dogs from registered breeders will not finish up dumped. Nor does it mean that all dogs who don't come from registered are at high risk. It means that, statistically, dogs from registered breeders tend to be at lower risk.

In fact, registered breeders who follow a responsible path in breeding/numbers of litters/raising/homing their dogs are actually preventing dumping, because they're lowering risk factors by doing that.

This is how I see it to - maybe I do hold the majority of the human race at a higher level than I should??

I don't think you see anywhere near as many purebred dogs in pounds compared to others (crosses or not so well bred dogs)

[Sparassidae]

Do we want the government defining what we can and can't do with our animals?

Yes, we do and they already do. I don't believe there is anyone out there who wants the government to sit back and let a free for all happen in the animal industries.

The question is where should the line be drawn as opposed to whether or not they should be able to interfere.

But they do let a free for all happen in the animal industry

What is the government doing to stop puppy farming/puppy factories, excessive over-breeding or dogs kept in deplorable conditions?

Guess all the laws around keeping and breeding of wildlife, livestock and the legislated conditions animals must be kept in is in my mind.

The problem is to enforce these laws 100% we need an increase in funding. The problem is no one wants taxes increased and to divert funds from somewhere else means that another area (probably underfunded already) will suffer.

[Sheridan]

That's like saying everyone someone w*nks, a kitten dies.

This is actually true.

Not really.

[minimax]

Do we want the government defining what we can and can't do with our animals?

Yes, we do and they already do. I don't believe there is anyone out there who wants the government to sit back and let a free for all happen in the animal industries.

The question is where should the line be drawn as opposed to whether or not they should be able to interfere.

But they do let a free for all happen in the animal industry

What is the government doing to stop puppy farming/puppy factories, excessive over-breeding or dogs kept in deplorable conditions?

Guess all the laws around keeping and breeding of wildlife, livestock and the legislated conditions animals must be kept in is in my mind.

The problem is to enforce these laws 100% we need an increase in funding. The problem is no one wants taxes increased and to divert funds from somewhere else means that another area (probably underfunded already) will suffer.

We are talking pets here, not livestock. And those legistlated conditions aren't policed, so having a rule you don't monitor makes it really non-existant thus making it a free for all.

Last night they showed a puppy farm that was prosecuted - the fine was $3000. No ban on owning dogs, or anything else.

How is that stopping offenders?

Edited September 26, 2012 by minimax