Pretty Miss Emma Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 These stats on killing will also include the animals that are surrendered ( or brought in as a "stray") with the intent of being euth'd because owners don't want to pay the vet fees (or can't afford) associated with having their animals PTS so instead they surrender/claim stray to avoid that charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyt Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Look what is happening at Geelong Animal Welfare Society Article Here I suspect that the numbers may be somewhat rubbery or may not hold up over time due to the small sample size, nonetheless, it is hard to argue that they are not making significant progress (an remember that they are in Victoria). Too many facilities however have not progressed in line with community expectations. The raw figures may not tell the whole story (although when they are so starkly bad, they are impossible to ignore). What I am irked by is that they are not seeking out best practice methods to maximise the number of rehomable dogs and then saving those dogs. When some facilities are able to operate with kill rates of 12% and some are 39%, something is wrong with the way the latter groups are looking at the problem and how they are responding to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyt Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Before all that, the primary thing that 'kills pound pets' is that they end up there in the first place. Why so many dogs and cats are being killed in pounds isn't the same question as why do so many cats and dogs end up in pounds. We need to look at why they end up there first. Absolutely... AND what happens once they get to the facilities is also important.... AND can be drastically improved on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Yep you make a good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkhe Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Before all that, the primary thing that 'kills pound pets' is that they end up there in the first place. Why so many dogs and cats are being killed in pounds isn't the same question as why do so many cats and dogs end up in pounds. We need to look at why they end up there first. Absolutely... AND what happens once they get to the facilities is also important.... AND can be drastically improved on. :thumbsup: I completely agree. Everybody is making valid points in this discussion, but they're not mutually exclusive. There are a bunch of issues and problems here, and chipping away at one doesn't mean the others must be ignored, or are not important. ALL of these issues need to be addressed. One of them is how shelters operate. The other thing that people haven't mentioned here is foster care - a great way to improve pounds' performance in adopting out adoptable animals is through utilising foster carers. The LDH apparently does this, but as far as I am aware, won't release numbers on how many animals it has in foster care at any time. The number of people who foster for rescues shows that there is willingness in teh community to do this kind of thing - pounds should tap into it more, in my opinion. It's one of the ways the new management at GAWS have improved that establishment's performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aphra Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 This is just not true. We are a really small rescue group, but right now we have a 2 year old Cairn Terrier, an 8 month old Maltese X and a 12 week old Shih Tzu X and a young Schnauzer looking for homes. We have just rehomed a Griffon X puppy. In the past we've have purebred Tibetan Spaniels, Whippets (several), Wire Hired Jack Russell puppies, an Australian Terrier puppy and a mother Papillion X and her wee baby. We've also taken our share of big dogs, working dogs and gorgeous indeterminate crossbreeds. I've seen some really rare breed dogs in pounds as well. Not that people only want little fluffies; people want all sorts of dogs, including high-energy types. Dogs in pounds are pretty much a representation of the population of dogs in the rest of the community. The stats also assume that a dog is a dog is a dog. Part of the problem I suspect is that the dogs that people are looking for don't often end up in pounds. Australian pounds are overflowing with high-energy, high prey drive breeds - these don't suit a lot of homes. It doesn't matter if 1 million people are looking for a low-drive, laid back, small to medium dog if there aren't a lot available in pounds/shelters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Too many facilities however have not progressed in line with community expectations. The raw figures may not tell the whole story (although when they are so starkly bad, they are impossible to ignore). What I am irked by is that they are not seeking out best practice methods to maximise the number of rehomable dogs and then saving those dogs. When some facilities are able to operate with kill rates of 12% and some are 39%, something is wrong with the way the latter groups are looking at the problem and how they are responding to it. That "something wrong" probably has quite a bit to do with resources. What exactly do you think "community expectatons" are with regard to pounds? From what I can gather most folk expect pounds to "deal" with unwanted dogs in a way that keeps the problem out of sight and out of mind. I gather quite a few surrendering owners are stunned that they have to pay for surrender a dog. Probably explains why the "drop off' cages get quite a few tennants. You simply cannot lay the blame for the kill rate solely at the feet of the people left to deal with it. Gather the stats on where killed dogs come from, who breeds them, who buys them, what socialisation they do and don't get and their ages. And yes, their breeds and crossbreeds too. Then address those issues. Starting at the end place seems to be to be no more than improving the number of buckets bailing while the problem continues to flood in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Of course there are small dogs in rescues, and of course not everyone is looking for a small dog (not that I made that claim). But that doesn't make my point invalid - how many people actively go looking for a high drive, powerful dog with no training? There are plenty of these in pounds. The problem isn't that they aren't advertised, the problem is they need experienced (with training, not just "I've owned dogs for 20 years), active owners with time on their hands. Maybe I run in the wrong circles but I don't know many people who fit that criteria. Don't get me wrong, I am all for reducing kill rates and think shelters can do a lot more. However, the demand outweighs supply argument is a weak one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Of course there are small dogs in rescues, and of course not everyone is looking for a small dog (not that I made that claim). But that doesn't make my point invalid - how many people actively go looking for a high drive, powerful dog with no training? There are plenty of these in pounds. The problem isn't that they aren't advertised, the problem is they need experienced (with training, not just "I've owned dogs for 20 years), active owners with time on their hands. Maybe I run in the wrong circles but I don't know many people who fit that criteria. Don't get me wrong, I am all for reducing kill rates and think shelters can do a lot more. However, the demand outweighs supply argument is a weak one. There are some avenues for high drive dogs - sporting homes, scent detection roles. Not everyone is looking for a couch potato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Of course. I don't want a couch potato. However, sporting homes are few and most - not all, but most- want a puppy from proven lines. I fully understand the "different people want different dogs" argument. I agree with it. Were talking macro numbers here. My point is that saying that demand outweighs supply argument is weak. I stand by that. Look at the number of huskies I. Rescue. Why are they there? They are a very hard to handle breed and are very cute pups. They need special owners. Sure there are dome great husky owners out there, but are there enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Of course there are small dogs in rescues, and of course not everyone is looking for a small dog (not that I made that claim). But that doesn't make my point invalid - how many people actively go looking for a high drive, powerful dog with no training? There are plenty of these in pounds. The problem isn't that they aren't advertised, the problem is they need experienced (with training, not just "I've owned dogs for 20 years), active owners with time on their hands. Maybe I run in the wrong circles but I don't know many people who fit that criteria. Don't get me wrong, I am all for reducing kill rates and think shelters can do a lot more. However, the demand outweighs supply argument is a weak one. There are some avenues for high drive dogs - sporting homes, scent detection roles. Not everyone is looking for a couch potato Such homes, from where I sit, are a drop in the ocean compared to the number of young high drive working dog mixes or purebreds looking for homes. Most of such homes I know want pups so that they can start them right. There are simply more of such dogs looking for homes than there are suitable homes looking for them. And the responsibility for that lies with the people who breed them and allow them to be bought by folk either ignorant of what raising such a dog entails or who think that they're up for it when the reality is different. Ditto for all the bull breed mixes who've outgrown the cute puppy stage.. They have their devotees but sadly, not enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Arcane Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Too many facilities however have not progressed in line with community expectations. The raw figures may not tell the whole story (although when they are so starkly bad, they are impossible to ignore). What I am irked by is that they are not seeking out best practice methods to maximise the number of rehomable dogs and then saving those dogs. When some facilities are able to operate with kill rates of 12% and some are 39%, something is wrong with the way the latter groups are looking at the problem and how they are responding to it. That "something wrong" probably has quite a bit to do with resources. What exactly do you think "community expectatons" are with regard to pounds? From what I can gather most folk expect pounds to "deal" with unwanted dogs in a way that keeps the problem out of sight and out of mind. I gather quite a few surrendering owners are stunned that they have to pay for surrender a dog. Probably explains why the "drop off' cages get quite a few tennants. You simply cannot lay the blame for the kill rate solely at the feet of the people left to deal with it. Gather the stats on where killed dogs come from, who breeds them, who buys them, what socialisation they do and don't get and their ages. And yes, their breeds and crossbreeds too. Then address those issues. Starting at the end place seems to be to be no more than improving the number of buckets bailing while the problem continues to flood in. bolded...exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westiemum Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 8:30pm tonight, SBS Insight will be asking: "Why are we killing so many dogs and cats?" This program, in my mind, will be revolutionary, in shifting the blame from 'the irresponsible public', onto shelters who are killing animals for trivial reasons while failing to market animals available for adoption in their care. I don't believe any program of this nature has aired in Australia before. For the SBS website's details: http://www.sbs.com.au/insight/episode/overview/501/The-Tail-End Rescued With Love's blog post regarding the program: http://www.rescuedwithlove.org/apps/blog/show/18985705-you-re-the-voice#.UFp8itE5S4Y.twitter News article on the Daily Liberal regarding the program: http://www.dailyliberal.com.au/story/355634/poor-animal-kill-statistics-aired-on-tv/?cs=112 Herald Sun article mentioning this upcoming program: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/shelter-animals-killed-for-convenience/story-fncynkc6-1226480386569 Michelle Williamson from Pet Rescue is on this programme apparently. Its also made page 13, Tory Shepherds column in the The Advertiser in Adelaide too - and its a good article - sticks very closely to the general DOL line! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsegal98 Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 tfs, will tune in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 It's on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 So, who from here is on the show tonight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy's mum Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 The stats also assume that a dog is a dog is a dog. Part of the problem I suspect is that the dogs that people are looking for don't often end up in pounds. Australian pounds are overflowing with high-energy, high prey drive breeds - these don't suit a lot of homes. It doesn't matter if 1 million people are looking for a low-drive, laid back, small to medium dog if there aren't a lot available in pounds/shelters. I was at the RSPCA last week. Mostly bull breeds/crosses, kelpies, BC, not many small dogs. No Greys - unusual. A couple of mini-dachsies looking very sad, a couple of shihtzus (litter brothers). Sad times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andisa Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 So far the RSPCA is not smelling like roses.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadWoofter Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) I missed the first 15 mins - is there representation from 'private' rescue rather than LDH or RSPCA? ETA spelling Edited September 25, 2012 by MadWoofter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazar Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 at that footage................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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