creek817 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) Hi all, I'm not sure if I've ever posted an intro on here or not, as I've only been lurking! Anyway, I'm Stef, I live in NSW near Port Macquarie. I have a beautiful RSPCA rescue named Dobby, who is half corgi, and I think half kelpie, but not sure. He will be 2 just before Christmas. I adopted him just before last Christmas. We are doing our first Obedience and Rally-O trial at the end of October, and will be starting Agility training in a few weeks hopefully. He's amazing =D Anyway, I have started doing research for my next dog, for a variety of reasons. I want a second dog, for myself, and for Dobby. He LOVES every other dog he meets, and I have enough time that I would love a second dog to train and compete in Agility with. I am thinking it will be about two years from now when I am ready for a puppy. The point of this is, I feed a Prey Model Raw diet, and I am anti-vaccinations, chemicals, etc. I am REALLY hoping to find a natural rearing, raw feeding breeder that does not vaccinate. Oh, and I want a Border Collie. Colour doesn't concern me at all, I just want my puppy to have the absolute best chance at having a long, healthy life. I am willing to wait to find the right breeder and the right puppy, but I figure it's not going to happen on its own, so I need to start looking, and I am not having any luck searching, so I thought I would post on here and see if anyone knows of any breeders that fit what I'm looking for. Thanks in advance! -Stef Edited September 17, 2012 by creek817 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) . Edited September 17, 2012 by Jumabaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) Is it even legal to sell unvaccinated pups? Not much chance of a long happy life for a pup with parvo Edit - from the Australian Veterinary Association re. parvo: The death rate in young non-vaccinated puppies can be greater than 80 per cent. Edited September 17, 2012 by Weasels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevafollo Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I doubt you will find a responsible registered breeder who does not vaccinate! The raw feeding you COULD find, maybe, but if I were you I would buy the puppy that suits you 100% temp wise from the best breeder you can find then slowly change his or her feeding over and not vaccinate if you wish from that point on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenGirl85 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I can understand if you choose not to vaccinate, but those early ones are vital to the health of a pup! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 perhaps go to some agility trials and see which BCs you like and their lines? I think you'll be hard pressed finding a breeder that does not vaccinate at all, or a breeder that will sell you a puppy that you will not vaccinate at all. It is pretty well accepted that at least the first puppy course of vaccinations (usually at 6-8 weeks, 10-12 weeks, 14-16 weeks)are essential for protection against serious and very contagious diseases such as parvovirus, hepatitis and distemper. I am not sure why you would want to take the risk of your puppy contracting a potentially deadly disease which is largely preventable? Your puppy may not have a long healthy life if it contracts parvovirus or distmper. After the course of puppy vaccines, many people choose not to vaccinate further, or do titre testing to see if their dog requires re-vaccination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 For the best chance at a long healthy life, all pups should be vaccinated. The decision to stop vaccinating every year after the pup is fully grown is up for debate, but to not vaccinate at all is to take a huge risk. And it is illegal in some areas, so check your local council laws. Don't your obedience clubs require proof of vaccination to compete? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Jean Dodds doesn't even advocate not vaccinating at all. Perhaps you should read up on her schedule. It seems the safest of the limited vaccines IMO. Early serious illness can cause lifetime immune problems (this is documented in humans) as well as stunted growth in dogs. Not sure why you would deliberately choose to put your new pup at such a risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Just noticed the vaccine part- my pups all had their initial 2 puppy vaccinations and then been titre tested and not needed them. You may find a breeder happy to hold off vaccinating your pup till 10 weeks and then be able to titre test to see if they need any more. Not vaccinating at all is irresponsible and if you find someone who does that then odds are you will also have a dog with temperament and physical faults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Can you please expand on why you are anti-vaccination? *before this thread goes the way of many others* My own preference is to vaccinate - but that's probably because I have seen (first hand) dogs and pups suffer and die from the diseases that vaccinations help to prevent. That said, I'm definitely NOT into vaccinating my dogs every year, but they do get all of their puppy shots and then at least the first adult booster shot. My dogs only get C3 vaccinations. May I ask what you use to prevent fleas and ticks? Seeing as you are located near Port Macquarie, those would also be a concern, surely? T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Also remember to check that the breeder you chose has done appropriate genetic testing on the parents and have hip scored them. This is what happens if they dont http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/238882-sick-border-collie-pup/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creek817 Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 I really don't want to get into a debate about vaccinations - I will say that I do not want to introduce any toxins into my dog, and I will not be vaccinating Dobby again (he was done before I adopted him, so I had no choice beforehand). If that keeps us from trialing, then I will do agility at home, and we will enjoy ourselves. Same goes for a new puppy. I believe that vaccines do FAR more harm than good, and that I have the resources to look after any issues naturally and holistically. I understand and appreciate that many people do not agree with this, but I really am not looking to get into an argument about it. As far as the person who asked what I do for fleas and ticks - We have ZERO flea problems, and I believe that is 100% due to Dobby's raw diet. Neighbours dogs have lots of fleas, and not a single one on my dog. As for ticks, I spray him with a 50/50 Apple Cider Vinegar/Water mix anytime I know he will be in areas that are likely to have ticks (mostly when we go do things with our cattle), and I check him multiple times a day for ticks. I found a couple on myself yesterday, but not a one on my boy. Again, I contribute that to the raw diet, and the spray. If nobody has anything to add that will help me in my search, then I would appreciate it if they did not add anything. I have made my decisions after MANY MANY hours of careful research, and I am extremely confident that I am doing what is best for my dog, and any future dogs I will have. I much prefer to avoid drama and confrontation, I would just like a bit of help. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I'm sure you'll be able to find a BYB who doesn't vaccinate. Of course, the reason they won't vaccinate will be because they're ignorant or won't give a toss about the health of the puppies. Either way, if you go for this option, best of luck in getting your border collie past puppyhood. If they don't care to vaccinate, they're also unlikely to care about genetics or careful breeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) I doubt you will find a responsible registered breeder who does not vaccinate! I think you'll be hard pressed finding a breeder that does not vaccinate at all, or a breeder that will sell you a puppy that you will not vaccinate at all. The vaccination thing is very relevant to finding a pup for tho, for the reasons above. Pretty much the only breeders that don't vaccinate do so because they don't want to spend any extra money that will cut into their profits But those breeders also won't spend any time matching the parents, doing genetic testing, socialising their pup, feeding a good diet etc. These things are far more damaging than some attenuated virus to stimulate a natural immune response. Edit - snap Sheridan Edited September 17, 2012 by Weasels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I really don't want to get into a debate about vaccinations - I will say that I do not want to introduce any toxins into my dog, and I will not be vaccinating Dobby again (he was done before I adopted him, so I had no choice beforehand). If that keeps us from trialing, then I will do agility at home, and we will enjoy ourselves. Same goes for a new puppy. I believe that vaccines do FAR more harm than good, and that I have the resources to look after any issues naturally and holistically. I understand and appreciate that many people do not agree with this, but I really am not looking to get into an argument about it. As far as the person who asked what I do for fleas and ticks - We have ZERO flea problems, and I believe that is 100% due to Dobby's raw diet. Neighbours dogs have lots of fleas, and not a single one on my dog. As for ticks, I spray him with a 50/50 Apple Cider Vinegar/Water mix anytime I know he will be in areas that are likely to have ticks (mostly when we go do things with our cattle), and I check him multiple times a day for ticks. I found a couple on myself yesterday, but not a one on my boy. Again, I contribute that to the raw diet, and the spray. If nobody has anything to add that will help me in my search, then I would appreciate it if they did not add anything. I have made my decisions after MANY MANY hours of careful research, and I am extremely confident that I am doing what is best for my dog, and any future dogs I will have. I much prefer to avoid drama and confrontation, I would just like a bit of help. Thank you. Then you've come to the wrong place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 You will be very hard pressed to find a responsible breeder that will sell a puppy to you if you are not going to vaccinate or treat responsibly for ticks & worms IMO. I suppose you don't believe in desexing either. You wont be able to join any dog clubs or attend dog trials unless your dog is up to date with vaccinations either. You will end up getting a 2nd grade pup from a BYB & could end up biting off more than you can chew as far as a healthy, sound pup goes. I am not a breeder, but as a lover of border collies, if I were, then I would run a mile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 It really doesn't matter what your feelings are about vaccinations, bottom line is that a registered, ethical breeder must vaccinate their pups before sale. In some states it is a goverment law requiring vaccinations ( and microchipping ), other states it is a requirement of the controlling body. Hence you will find it very hard to find a pup from an ethical registered breeder that is not vaccinated ( and microchipped and treated for worms etc ). Good luck with your search. Please make sure the parents of your pup have had the required health tests so it does have a chance of a long healthy life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I really don't want to get into a debate about vaccinations - I will say that I do not want to introduce any toxins into my dog, and I will not be vaccinating Dobby again (he was done before I adopted him, so I had no choice beforehand). If that keeps us from trialing, then I will do agility at home, and we will enjoy ourselves. Same goes for a new puppy. I believe that vaccines do FAR more harm than good, and that I have the resources to look after any issues naturally and holistically. I understand and appreciate that many people do not agree with this, but I really am not looking to get into an argument about it. As far as the person who asked what I do for fleas and ticks - We have ZERO flea problems, and I believe that is 100% due to Dobby's raw diet. Neighbours dogs have lots of fleas, and not a single one on my dog. As for ticks, I spray him with a 50/50 Apple Cider Vinegar/Water mix anytime I know he will be in areas that are likely to have ticks (mostly when we go do things with our cattle), and I check him multiple times a day for ticks. I found a couple on myself yesterday, but not a one on my boy. Again, I contribute that to the raw diet, and the spray. If nobody has anything to add that will help me in my search, then I would appreciate it if they did not add anything. I have made my decisions after MANY MANY hours of careful research, and I am extremely confident that I am doing what is best for my dog, and any future dogs I will have. I much prefer to avoid drama and confrontation, I would just like a bit of help. Thank you. That is extremely insulting to those of us who have done months or years of research into dog health. You have been given the best advice possible, if you want to avoid drama and confrontation, don't argue, and please do keep your unvaccinated dogs at home. Do you think that anyone likes putting chemicals on their dogs? We do it because fleas, ticks and parvovirus are all very serious threats to our dogs' health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creek817 Posted September 17, 2012 Author Share Posted September 17, 2012 I actually do believe in desexing, when necessary. (I have never had a dog that I haven't desexed). Obviously, I am not going to get any help on this forum. You all seem to be incredibly closed minded and brainwashed by the vets that tell you you need all of these things to keep your dogs healthy. Say whatever you like in response to this, I won't be coming back. Thank you all for your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 (edited) . Edited September 17, 2012 by Weasels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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