What To Feed Now?

[JulesP]

and it is definitely a very rare allergy.

A quick google shows that it is not a rare allergy.

[Guest Augustine The Boxer]

Stitch feel free to contact me if you would like a good elimination diet that won't starve your dog of valuable nutrients (eg. chicken and rice diet).

JulesP it depends on one's definition of rare. If anyone is interested here is a good read about flaxseed allergy in humans. It explains that although the flaxseed protein is safe for consumption, it is a mistake of the immune system that identifies it as dangerous.

My link

[JulesP]

Augustine The Boxer do you hold any formal qualifications in nutrition or animal science?

[Guest Augustine The Boxer]

No.

How come?

[JulesP]

No.

How come?

Just curious.

[JulesP]

That's the thing...it may not be an allergic reaction to flaxseed oil, however she only had it 3 times on her evening meal before this last episode started, so it has to be suspected.

I will make a booking with the internal medicine specialist vet next week and see what he has to say about her ongoing diet. At least it may give me a direction to head in. Perhaps he has an elimination diet I can follow and maybe he can give me a list of foods to avoid. Poor girl, she doesn't understand why she can't have the nice real food like she did before, and not even a 'going to bed' biscuit!!!

So hard to suggest things because she had such a violent reaction. I wouldn't want to be responsible for causing a relapse.

Are you feeding the Hills kibble? If you are then you can make 'biscuits'. Crush the kibble and then add some liquid (eggs if they are ok). Make into biscuit shapes and then cook in a fry pan.

I buy 'homemade' vego type biscuits from various markets and haven't had a problem with them, that is assuming flour isn't a problem.

[AussieDog]

That's the thing...it may not be an allergic reaction to flaxseed oil, however she only had it 3 times on her evening meal before this last episode started, so it has to be suspected.

I will make a booking with the internal medicine specialist vet next week and see what he has to say about her ongoing diet. At least it may give me a direction to head in. Perhaps he has an elimination diet I can follow and maybe he can give me a list of foods to avoid. Poor girl, she doesn't understand why she can't have the nice real food like she did before, and not even a 'going to bed' biscuit!!!

Are you feeding the Hills kibble? If you are then you can make 'biscuits'. Crush the kibble and then add some liquid (eggs if they are ok). Make into biscuit shapes and then cook in a fry pan.

Great tip. I'm going to give it a go.

[Sagittarian]

That's the thing...it may not be an allergic reaction to flaxseed oil, however she only had it 3 times on her evening meal before this last episode started, so it has to be suspected.

I will make a booking with the internal medicine specialist vet next week and see what he has to say about her ongoing diet. At least it may give me a direction to head in. Perhaps he has an elimination diet I can follow and maybe he can give me a list of foods to avoid. Poor girl, she doesn't understand why she can't have the nice real food like she did before, and not even a 'going to bed' biscuit!!!

Are you feeding the Hills kibble? If you are then you can make 'biscuits'. Crush the kibble and then add some liquid (eggs if they are ok). Make into biscuit shapes and then cook in a fry pan.

Great tip. I'm going to give it a go.

That is a great tip. Will steal it for some of my customers if that's okay, Jules?

[Stitch]

She went home from hospital with the Hills Z/D Hyperallergenic diet in the cans.

After the first 7 days I changed her over to the Hills Z/D dry kibble which Hills say is exactly the same as the cans but of course doesn't have water as its first ingredient which is OK now as she is drinking normally.

She has tolerated this well except for the farting and the slightly soft poos. The farts have to be experienced to be believed!!!

I am currently just giving her 2 pieces of the kibble as a going to bed biscuit.

Thanks JulesP for the good idea about the biscuits. I don't know if she has an egg allergy but just guessing I doubt it.

I will give it a go!

[Erny]

Would there be much left as far as nutrients go after all the baking? IMO and to my knowledge, cooked/processed food makes the system work harder to digest and wouldn't that be exactly what we'd want to avoid for a dog whose stomach is already on the stressed side?

Stitch - I had stretches where I had to feed Mandela the Z/D. He didn't much take to the kibble, so cans were what he was fed (I think he knew they were the more expensive option :roll eyes: lol). By comparison to the really sloppy, tar-like poop which is what he expelled when he ate the raw roo, the Z/D poop was markedly improved but like you, also had times where it was a bit on the softish side. Note that the Z/D contains corn starch. Go figure. I know the response to that is that the corn starch is moleculised, but funnily enough, Mandela's food intolerance test results indicated that this body had been exposed to corn in the last 6 months. The ONLY corn he's been exposed to is that of the Z/D, so moleculised or not, Mandela's body was obviously recognising it. This would potentially answer as to why, after a period of time of feeding it, he would go "off" the Z/D as well. Mandela's poop was also a bit on the smelly side (admittedly not as bad as when on the roo mince in the absence of Augustine's SF) and he still would fart (although again perhaps not quite as much). Now? Snnnnniiiiiiiifffffffffffffffffffffff. Mmmmmhhmmmmm :D. Clean air :D.

[megan_]

Processed food is normally more easy to digest

[JulesP]

Would there be much left as far as nutrients go after all the baking? IMO and to my knowledge, cooked/processed food makes the system work harder to digest and wouldn't that be exactly what we'd want to avoid for a dog whose stomach is already on the stressed side?

Stitch - I had stretches where I had to feed Mandela the Z/D. He didn't much take to the kibble, so cans were what he was fed (I think he knew they were the more expensive option :roll eyes: lol). By comparison to the really sloppy, tar-like poop which is what he expelled when he ate the raw roo, the Z/D poop was markedly improved but like you, also had times where it was a bit on the softish side. Note that the Z/D contains corn starch. Go figure. I know the response to that is that the corn starch is moleculised, but funnily enough, Mandela's food intolerance test results indicated that this body had been exposed to corn in the last 6 months. The ONLY corn he's been exposed to is that of the Z/D, so moleculised or not, Mandela's body was obviously recognising it. This would potentially answer as to why, after a period of time of feeding it, he would go "off" the Z/D as well. Mandela's poop was also a bit on the smelly side (admittedly not as bad as when on the roo mince in the absence of Augustine's SF) and he still would fart (although again perhaps not quite as much). Now? Snnnnniiiiiiiifffffffffffffffffffffff. Mmmmmhhmmmmm :D. Clean air :D.

The biscuits aren't for nutrients. They are so the sick doggy gets to have a bed time biscuit.

As Megan said processed food is heaps easier on the gut. You just don't want to feed processed foods that the patient is allergic to.

[Stitch]

Erny, I note from your other posts that you had the food allergy tests done. When I mentioned this to the vet he said that skin allergy tests can be done and are fairly reliable BUT the food allergy testing is not. He said that clinical tests that were done were 50% right if you followed the test results and 50% if you didn't.....don't know that I have explained that well???......anyway his point was that food allergy testing, I think the only one being the one in USA, were definitely NOT worth the money....but I know when I have an animal that I am caring for that is in real trouble, I would be resorting to that too. At least you have some direction to go in!!!

And the other side of the coin is that I am sure that in the preparation of the Hills diets....which normally have alot of corn in them....they would have a % acceptability rating on the corn process for the Z/D if you get what I am saying. They probably couldn't completely get rid of whatever it is in it that Mandela reacts to but in most dogs it is acceptable so they put it in because of its other benefits.

Intereting that Mandela couldn't tolerate kangaroo. I have only offered it to my lot when it was sold to me as low fat, it was the prepared Dr.B BARF and it was not well received....they viewed it with suspicion but eventually ate it. It is a very strong meat and there are lots of other meats that they like a whole lot better. I don't think I tried it on my old girl but probably wouldn't now because of that previous experience.

Erny, did you ever try Mandela on the I/D? I am wondering if that is our next step?

ETA: BTW Erny, I know my girl reacts to liver and Z/D protein is from liver. I am wondering if it is the same as your experience with the corn. ie. the liver is still present even though it is moleculised?

Edited September 18, 2012 by Stitch

[AussieDog]

I'm pretty sure Roo started this whole process. We started vomiting blood the day after i introduced roo meat. My vet told me even though it was human grade (from woolies) that it can sometimes be full of red dye and yes it is a "strong" meat.

[JulesP]

L/D is pretty much vego. It has a tiny bit of fat in it. It does contain soy though which some dogs may be allergic to.

[Stitch]

Yes JulesP there is the soy factor which I avoid in normal dry food but there is also liver which is normally a proven

problem for us.

And yes AussieDog, kangaroo is a strong, gamey meat. I feed rabbit BARF to my other dogs which is always acceptable...poos are small and don't smell much and the dogs love it!

[JulesP]

Yes JulesP there is the soy factor which I avoid in normal dry food but there is also liver which is normally a proven

problem for us.

L/D doesn't have liver in it. That is why I suggested it. It has chicken liver flavor.

[Stitch]

I was talking about the Z/D not the L/D.

What is the next stage down from Z/D is that the L/D?

[JulesP]

I was talking about the Z/D not the L/D.

What is the next stage down from Z/D is that the L/D?

No L/D is for dogs with liver problems. It is what I feed my dog which is why I knew that it was meat free. If the dog can eat soy it does give you a novel food source.

[Erny]

Erny, I note from your other posts that you had the food allergy tests done. When I mentioned this to the vet he said that skin allergy tests can be done and are fairly reliable BUT the food allergy testing is not. He said that clinical tests that were done were 50% right if you followed the test results and 50% if you didn't.....don't know that I have explained that well???......anyway his point was that food allergy testing, I think the only one being the one in USA, were definitely NOT worth the money....but I know when I have an animal that I am caring for that is in real trouble, I would be resorting to that too. At least you have some direction to go in!!!

The Food Intolerance testing is different to allergy tests. The food intolerance tests show up even if an allergy to the food has not built up. Email Dr Jean Dodds - she will more than happily explain it to you and much better than I can.

The tests are very new and I would guess that time is needed for them to prove their worth. I was at the point of "where else can I turn other than drugs?" and so for me, yes, the results help to steer me in directions to at least try to avoid the ones we know of that are likely to cause a problem.

Erny, did you ever try Mandela on the I/D? I am wondering if that is our next step?

Z/D was even back then a "last resort" - one that I'd tried to avoid. I'm glad it was available to me though, as back then and some times since I have been desperate to improve Mandela's stools and it generally worked at least for that to a reasonable degree. The Augustine food has done that and better, though, with (as I mentioned above) no smelly poop and no farting. I didn't consider I/D (and it wasn't suggested by any Vet to me, either) but for the time being it seems, I don't need to whilst the Augustine SuperFood is working as well as it is.

ETA: BTW Erny, I know my girl reacts to liver and Z/D protein is from liver. I am wondering if it is the same as your experience with the corn. ie. the liver is still present even though it is moleculised?

Good point - that would be a guess.