I Need To Become "pack Leader".. Help?

[mumof4girls]

Goodness me what a ridiculous puppy school trainer.. Rogue was like your guy at puppy school, now at 9 /2 mths he is Mr sociable loves to play with everyone ( bit too sociable sometimes lol ESP at agility formation training ) You will hear things along the way from vets, trainers ,everyday people that you will need to take a step back and digest, take what people say with a grain of salt and if your concerned come here like you have.. Being a first time dog owner you tend to believe everything ,especially from so called professionals, believe me they do not always know what they are talking about which makes it so hard to know what to do ... :-)

Edited September 15, 2012 by mumof4girls

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

True but Susan Garrett trains for dog sports, rather than rehabilitation, so its difficult to compare.

Yes but which methods are more appropriate at puppy school?

And some of the dogs that CM uses his techniques on are just naughty family pets whose bad behaviour has been encouraged by their owners - ie its the owners that need re-training - not the dog, and yet the dog gets punished.

[ChewieTAG]

I have a 10 week old Maltese x Poodle male pup named Teddy.

At home he has a gorgeous temperament, gets a little over-enthusiastic when we play and will occasionally nip my hand instead of the toy but what puppy doesn't (this is also something we're working on, he isn't just allowed to bite)? In general he's good with people, though he takes a bit longer to warm up to men than women (the lady who owned his mum was a single mum and he didn't see many men before he came to me).

We started puppy preschool on Wednesday night and I was shocked to see how different he was to all the other pups. In a group of 4, 3 of the pups got really rambunctious and played together after only a few minutes of growling/sniffing.. but after an hour Teddy was still sitting under my chair, unwilling to go near the other pups during off-leash time and growling if they came too close. He even had a snap at one of the more enthusiastic pups who came bouncing over to say hello. He did however let a more quiet maltese/shitzu pup come over and sniff/hang out.

I was confused because Teddy had a visit with my mother-in-laws 8 year old Bichon and after about 5 minutes of being unsure/sniffing he was running about like a mad hatter, playing and trying to get Momo to play with him, too.

After the class I stayed back and spoke to the trainer who said that Teddy is withdrawn/aggressive with other dogs/people because he doesn't see me as the pack leader and I need to assert my dominance so he can feel more comfortable in new situations and know I will protect him. She said to avoid picking him up for cuddles or interacting with him too much (her exact words were to "remain aloof with him").. I don't really understand this because who gets a puppy just to ignore it all the time? Also, how will he know I'll protect him if I ignore him all the time?

To give you an idea of his lifestyle/my training style, I'll let you know what we've been doing:

- Teddy sleeps in my room but he has his own bed beside mine. He will come up for cuddles/pats while I read before bed but he always gets put back in his own bed for sleep.

- He is already fairly solid in toilet training and has only had 1-2 accidents total, both of which were my fault for not taking him out frequently enough.

- We have been working on training, he will "sit" on my first command and knows to sit before being fed/before I open doors. He also knows "drop it" and "go get it/fetch".

- He eats only puppy food and is fed after the rest of us eat to encourage him not to beg.

- I work 8am-4pm monday-friday and my partner works 2pm-11pm monday-friday so he is home alone an average of 3-4 hours a day. During this time he is put in the laundry with a bed, some toys, his kong and some water.

- I spend about an hour every afternoon when I get home playing fetch with him and in general running around like a crazy person to get him his exercise (since we cant go for walks yet).

- He hasn't had his second pavo vaccination yet (this is actually booked for tomorrow) so he hasn't visited dog parks or anything but he does get a fair bit of outside time in our courtyard and my mother in laws backyard on the weekends when we visit.

Does anyone have any tips on how I can better assert myself as "top dog" without completely ignoring him? Of course if the only way for him to feel safe out and about is for me to ignore him, I'll do it, but it really doesn't make sense to me. Surely there must be another way?

(attached is a picture of him dead to the world in his bed with his monkey toy.)

I think he will be fine. It takes time to build the confidence. Go earlier to the training ground so he can familiarize the place. Normally I would bring Snowy 30 minutes earlier to get use to training ground with many people with dogs. Loud noises, barks, instructors raising voices to train, could be too much for a puppy to handle at first. Snowy warm up to it later on

Take it easy, go early and walk around with your pup

[Canine Academy]

I have been running puppy pre-schools for nearly 3 years and in my experience we generally have 1 or 2 pups that are withdrawn and fearful. This usually improves over the course of 4 weeks. I'm not sure how your puppy pre-school is currently being run but if I identified a pup like yours I encourage them to arrive a few minutes early each week just so they are in the area first rather than arrive last when there are a handful of pups. It's hard to know exactly what’s going on in your current puppy pre-school, but the idea here is to allow all pups the opportunity of socialisation without being bullied or mobbed. All of my classes involve off leash time but this is monitored. A shy or fearful dog like yours should be allowed off lead first, and any pups that are overly boisterous should have limited time off lead and be monitored closely. A useful tool for me as a trainer is the use of a "boring hold", this is where a boisterous dog is held firmly by the front shoulders for about 20 seconds or until they stop fighting the hold then let go again.

I have had great success in the past with my one on one behaviour consultations when leadership techniques are needed. I'm not sure the exact information you were given but to simply ignore your dog is not healthy, and I would not advise this. Was the trainer suggesting ignoring the fearful behaviour? It's a hard thing to do, but by ignoring fearful behaviour (assuming your dog is not in physical danger) is a perfectly healthy way to help your dog. "Praise the good and ignore the bad". After you return from work or after any period of separation I do suggest you ignore your dog until they are calm. By doing this you certainly do improve your leadership status but you also reward calm behaviour. If you give attention to a jumping dog they will learn that behaviour gets them attention, and it will become a very usual and annoying behaviour.

If you need a hand on how to improve your leadership skills just let me know, I have a completely hands off method

Matt Melville

Owner of Canine Academy, Sydney

Dog Training and behaviour academy

[Weasels]

Here's a nice article and video about the science behind "reinforcing fear" - TLDR: don't worry about it. Feel free to quietly comfort a fearful dog :)

http://fearfuldogs.com/myth-of-reinforcing-fear/

[Smartypaws]

Here's a nice article and video about the science behind "reinforcing fear" - TLDR: don't worry about it. Feel free to quietly comfort a fearful dog :)

http://fearfuldogs.com/myth-of-reinforcing-fear/

+1 for that advice.....

[Jumabaar]

Here's a nice article and video about the science behind "reinforcing fear" - TLDR: don't worry about it. Feel free to quietly comfort a fearful dog :)

http://fearfuldogs.com/myth-of-reinforcing-fear/

Yup my dogs all get support when they are scared.

Much better for them to look at me for support than have them make up their own minds about coping mechanisms!!

As an aside I tend to redirect behaviour I dont like into behaviour I do like. Some behaviours I dislike are inherently rewarding for the dog, so I give them an opportunity to do something equally rewarding- its just that the reward comes from me :) particularly at this age when they are a sponge and not yet adolescents testing the boundaries

ie snapping at the annoying dog rewards them by the dog backing off- instead I body block the annoying dog and ask mine to sit and give me attention.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Jumabaar

[Everlilly]

So many responses, thank you so much everyone for your input!

I apologize for the slow updates but I havent had internet all week so imagine my pleasure when we got home tonight and it was finally connected (yay Optus for finally getting your sh!t together!)

To give 1 massive update, here we go!

I decided I was not going to ignore Teddy because I thought it was too cruel (which, as I read these posts, I'm glad to see a lot of people agree with). I did, however, try to be a bit more hands on with his socialising and letting him see lots of new things in a comfortable and safe way. In the space of a week he met probably about 20 people (within the comfort of our home/yard) one or two at a time, with them coming to the house and pretty much ignoring him until he got curious and came over for a sniff and a pat! It worked a dream and now he'll growl a little at the door but he immediately runs up to visitors when the door opens.. :D Such a small thing but it feels like a huge victory. We also went lots of places in the car, and while he had to be carried around once we reached our destination as he isn't vaccinated yet, he seemed a lot more relaxed toward the start of this week than he was last week.

I also decided I'd give the trainer/puppy school one more try (as I paid the whole course up front and Teddy had seemed to really come out of his shell) and I'm really glad I did. I arrived early this time to give him some time to sniff around before the other dogs got there, and had time to chat with the trainer. I think we had a bit of a miscommunication or I misunderstood when she was explaining to me last week, either that or she completely changed her mind between then and now. She was still fairly adamant about the "pack leader" thing but she also seemed a lot more .. human? I guess? With regards to Teddy being a puppy and needing to be treated differently because he is just a bit shy and takes a little longer to get involved.

Needless to say, class tonight was one BILLION times better. Teddy had a sniff of each pup as they arrived and by the time the dogs were all there he was comfortable sitting next to my chair instead of under it. During off leash time he sniffed at each of the other puppy owners, and even played a little with the quieter maltese/shitzu (with some warning growls at the more loud/energetic pups). During on leash time he was relaxed enough to be able to focus on me while we were learning how to walk on the leash correctly! It's almost a complete 180, I am so, so pleased with how far he has come.

Anyway, I just wanted to say thank you to everyone for all their feedback and advice.. I'm glad to know my instincts were right about this. It's so nice to have a resource like this forum where I can see multiple opinions and make my own informed decisions.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I'm not into all the alpha dog and dominance stuff much.

But I do believe that one must be reasonably consistent (at least 4 times out of 5) about stopping puppy from engaging in or continuing in behaviour you find unacceptable - like barking at nothing in particular or to get attention, biting, and ripping the couch to pieces etc.

That doesn't mean you have to punish him when he's naughty, but just physically interupt him (with a noise or by getting hold of him) and giving him something else more acceptable to do. Distract and re-direct.

I think that's what most trainers mean by "pack leader". It's your home and your rules, so make sure puppy knows what appropriate behaviour is.

[Tassie]

Well done Everlilly - sounds like you and Teddy are doing really well now. Keep up the socialisation/taking him as many places as you can and introducing him to as many people as you can - one trainer recommends you try for 100 things/people in 100 days - seems like you're well on the way :) .

Pups appreciate us being calm and consistent. To them it doesn't matter what the rules are, but they need to be given the chance (in a humane and kind way) to learn the rules - and to be told when they are right, and re-directed if they're not. And as with kids, don't forget to catch them being good. :laugh:

[mumof4girls]

Rogue spent the first 3 sessions snuggled up under my chin like a koala bear lol.. The teacher at your class would prob say he was super shy lol lol far from it now :-)

[Kajtek]

Great job Everlilly and Teddy

I'm not into all the alpha dog and dominance stuff much.

Totally agree with the above. My 3 dogs are obedient because they want to be and confident because it makes us all happy.

I've over-praised and over-bribed them to be like this :laugh: