I Need To Become "pack Leader".. Help?

[Everlilly]

I have a 10 week old Maltese x Poodle male pup named Teddy.

At home he has a gorgeous temperament, gets a little over-enthusiastic when we play and will occasionally nip my hand instead of the toy but what puppy doesn't (this is also something we're working on, he isn't just allowed to bite)? In general he's good with people, though he takes a bit longer to warm up to men than women (the lady who owned his mum was a single mum and he didn't see many men before he came to me).

We started puppy preschool on Wednesday night and I was shocked to see how different he was to all the other pups. In a group of 4, 3 of the pups got really rambunctious and played together after only a few minutes of growling/sniffing.. but after an hour Teddy was still sitting under my chair, unwilling to go near the other pups during off-leash time and growling if they came too close. He even had a snap at one of the more enthusiastic pups who came bouncing over to say hello. He did however let a more quiet maltese/shitzu pup come over and sniff/hang out.

I was confused because Teddy had a visit with my mother-in-laws 8 year old Bichon and after about 5 minutes of being unsure/sniffing he was running about like a mad hatter, playing and trying to get Momo to play with him, too.

After the class I stayed back and spoke to the trainer who said that Teddy is withdrawn/aggressive with other dogs/people because he doesn't see me as the pack leader and I need to assert my dominance so he can feel more comfortable in new situations and know I will protect him. She said to avoid picking him up for cuddles or interacting with him too much (her exact words were to "remain aloof with him").. I don't really understand this because who gets a puppy just to ignore it all the time? Also, how will he know I'll protect him if I ignore him all the time?

To give you an idea of his lifestyle/my training style, I'll let you know what we've been doing:

- Teddy sleeps in my room but he has his own bed beside mine. He will come up for cuddles/pats while I read before bed but he always gets put back in his own bed for sleep.

- He is already fairly solid in toilet training and has only had 1-2 accidents total, both of which were my fault for not taking him out frequently enough.

- We have been working on training, he will "sit" on my first command and knows to sit before being fed/before I open doors. He also knows "drop it" and "go get it/fetch".

- He eats only puppy food and is fed after the rest of us eat to encourage him not to beg.

- I work 8am-4pm monday-friday and my partner works 2pm-11pm monday-friday so he is home alone an average of 3-4 hours a day. During this time he is put in the laundry with a bed, some toys, his kong and some water.

- I spend about an hour every afternoon when I get home playing fetch with him and in general running around like a crazy person to get him his exercise (since we cant go for walks yet).

- He hasn't had his second pavo vaccination yet (this is actually booked for tomorrow) so he hasn't visited dog parks or anything but he does get a fair bit of outside time in our courtyard and my mother in laws backyard on the weekends when we visit.

Does anyone have any tips on how I can better assert myself as "top dog" without completely ignoring him? Of course if the only way for him to feel safe out and about is for me to ignore him, I'll do it, but it really doesn't make sense to me. Surely there must be another way?

(attached is a picture of him dead to the world in his bed with his monkey toy.)

[Weasels]

Advice? Find another puppy school.

Dogs have personalities, just like people. Some don't like large crowds, even if they play nicely with one or two dogs doesn't mean they want to jump into the melee of an overexcited free-for-all! He sounds like a lovely puppy with a very attentive owner so please don't overturn the great life he has on the advice of one misguided person

Edited September 14, 2012 by Weasels

[megan_]

1. Get a new trainer

2. Take him to s puppy school that isn't just a group of dogs flooding yours. Not all dogs like lots of strange dogs in their face. They need to greet properly etc.3. Practicing something life " nothing in life is free" and "triable of temptation" are good ways to build a good relationship with you dog.

4. Can't emphasize enough: get a new trainer.

[Guest Panzer Attack!]

My dog was like this at puppy school too. I let things escalate (flooded him with socialization, plus he got attacked a few times) so he became dog aggressive but I have it back under control now I know what I'm doing.

TBH it sounds like Teddy is unconfident around loud boisterous pups. A lot of small dogs are like this - it seems like survival instinct to a degree. I'm not a subscriber to pack theory (most of your replies here will be), so I think your best bet is to let him play with safe dogs (like the Bichon) and let him have time out if he's over threshold in class. At obedience, if Scooter starts freaking out or starts displacing, I remove him from the situation. He looks to me for clues a lot more these days and our relationship is blossoming because of it :)

[Guest Panzer Attack!]

Also - he's a BABY. Ignoring a young animal that NEEDS you to give him guidance is a terrible idea! How will he learn?! Every interaction you have with him is training, ESPECIALLY when he's so young, so please make it count!

The biggest issue I see with people and their small dogs is lack of training and humanizing ("oh he's my baby" etc). You sound like you're on the right track :) x

[persephone]

Hi :)

Does Teddy never go anywhere different?

Do you carry him around the block..or down the street?

Does he enjoy car rides/sitting in the car at shops etc?

has he been out & about with his leash/collar on ? or does he have a harness? harnesses can tend to make some dogs feel restricted and anxious ....

Part of the reason he may just have sat under your chair , just from the little you've posted , is that he has never been anywhere strange ..or in the company of so many other dogs ...His breeder possibly kept them very quiet, too ..so anything strange will take getting used to.

You do not really need to ignore him... or chastise him... but then again.. don't pick him up/cuddle him all the time either, and make sure he has boundaries and rules/routine :)

Interact during training/playing..praise him lots ..but only when he does something to earn it - not just because he's gorgeous, has teddy bear feet , or big brown eyes :p .

remember your touch, soft words and kisses are his REWARD.. so, let HIM decide when he gets rewarded - ie: when he is doing x, y, z.... :) he will learn VERY quickly!!!

How is he on leash around home? This is an ideal time to get the communication happening ... walks around the yard, on leash ,several short training sessions a day ..car rides ..

Maybe have a read here ...

LINK

[persephone]

Advice? Find another puppy school.

Dogs have personalities, just like people. Some don't like large crowds, even if they play nicely with one or two dogs doesn't mean they want to jump into the melee of an overexcited free-for-all! He sounds like a lovely puppy with a very attentive owner so please don't overturn the great life he has on the advice of one misguided person

x1 !!!!

Edited September 14, 2012 by persephone

[**Super_Dogs**]

I train a puppy class and there are usually 1 or 2 pups every class that stay very close mum/dad.

Like people dogs have their own personality. Some puppies want to run and play with other puppies, while others like to watch. The aim of socilalisation is so your puppy/dog can nicely greet others dogs and people.

So long as there is is improvement each week don't panic.

I agree with others.....maybe find a new puppy school.

[ann21]

I would also recommend finding another puppy school. I don't know what the prevalent view is but I don't believe in dominance training methods. Best practice is positive reinforcement I've heard...try to get a trainer who is delta accredited.

Also it sounds like your pup was acting fearful aggressive in that situation? I'm no professional though would be good to hear what other people think.

Edited to reiterate I don't mean to imply your pup is fearful aggressive, just that he might not be confident in a sitatuion with many strange noisy pups and gives warning signals (e.g. Growling) to show how he is feeling.

Edited September 14, 2012 by ann21

[flame ryder]

If that was his very first time at puppy school I wouldn't be too worried. Some of the others may have been before. Try going back a few times and see if he improves.

Don't take too much notice of that trainer....doesn't sound like she has a clue. Just do your own thing and enjoy time with your puppy. You seem to be right on track with everything you are doing

[dancinbcs]

I would be finding a new puppy school that doesn't allow boisterous puppies to scare the quieter ones. Personally I prefer schools that do not let the puppies offlead at all but teach them to interact calmly on lead. It sounds like you are doing everything right and maybe just need to take him to more places to get him used to different sights and sounds. It is not normal for all dogs to want to play with every strange dog they meet and they should never be forced to do this so whatever you do, don't go to an offlead dog park. Try to maybe set up play dates with a few other calm trustworthy dogs he can get to know and other than that train him to ignore other dogs because a trained dog should focus on the owner not every dog he sees on a walk.

[Christina]

For his age your puppy is doing really well with everything & has learned a lot. He knows you are the boss. He is obeying you

& obviously trying to please. The toy breeds although intelligent are so silly as babies compared with the working breeds. He sounds great to me & you are doing a good job.

He doesn't have to like going in a room with 3 strange pups & being instant friends for the first time. They are living beings, not clones. There is no need to be aloof to be boss.

Don't go back there. Some people have strange ideas & you will find your confidence is knocked. All kinds of things work for training dogs.

There were actually trained & socialised dogs before puppy schools existed :laugh:

Carry on as you are & believe in yourself. Teddy is very cute.

[Nekhbet]

After the class I stayed back and spoke to the trainer who said that Teddy is withdrawn/aggressive with other dogs/people because he doesn't see me as the pack leader and I need to assert my dominance so he can feel more comfortable in new situations and know I will protect him. She said to avoid picking him up for cuddles or interacting with him too much (her exact words were to "remain aloof with him").. I don't really understand this because who gets a puppy just to ignore it all the time? Also, how will he know I'll protect him if I ignore him all the time?

What a load of rubbish. It's a baby in a new environment and it was all too much for him. There is nothing wrong with pups just sitting back watching until they get the confidence to go join them.

Too many supposed trainers these days - watch a few Cesar Milan DVDs and suddenly you're a behaviorist

[Salukifan]

After the class I stayed back and spoke to the trainer who said that Teddy is withdrawn/aggressive with other dogs/people because he doesn't see me as the pack leader and I need to assert my dominance so he can feel more comfortable in new situations and know I will protect him

Bullshit.

Your pup was overwhelmed. He reacted entirely appropriately to being put in a fearful situation. If he displays that degree of discomfort, remove him or remove the pup that's overwhelming him.

The trainer should know better than to rattle off Cesar Milan style crap to owners of 10 week old pups.

What Teddy needs is to feel safe and secure (agree there) but not to be placed in situations where he is overwhelmed. Keep him with the smaller/quieter pups until he grows in confidence and my guess is that he'll be having fun in no time. He may never be the most outgoing pup in the room but frankly, does it matter?

Seriously, people who sprout this kind of rubbish shouldn't be allowed to run puppy schools. :

Edited September 14, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[Nekhbet]

Seriously, people who sprout this kind of rubbish shouldn't be allowed to run puppy schools

Honey, they start dog training businesses and advertise they're qualified to deal with aggression and dominance.

http://www.youtube.com/user/DogWhispererKev?feature=watch

[Weasels]

Seriously, people who sprout this kind of rubbish shouldn't be allowed to run puppy schools

Honey, they start dog training businesses and advertise they're qualified to deal with aggression and dominance.

http://www.youtube.com/user/DogWhispererKev?feature=watch

[persephone]

Seriously, people who sprout this kind of rubbish shouldn't be allowed to run puppy schools

Honey, they start dog training businesses and advertise they're qualified to deal with aggression and dominance.

http://www.youtube.c...v?feature=watch

Uh- huh.

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Isn't it interesting - the dogs that CM has "rehab'd", are always trying to get away from him, they're looking away from him and doing all sorts of dog calming signals...

And Susan Garrett's dogs are all doing exactly what she asked of them and waiting patiently with extreme attention on her for any sign of the fun thing they're going to do next together.

I did puppy school, there was one dog that sat under the chair, and it was allowed to. I think it eventually came out and joined in but there was no pressure for it to do so. There was a mix of on lead and free play. And no puppy tried to beat any of the others up. We were told how to deal with it at the start though - ie grab hind legs of your puppy while other owner grabs their puppy and pull them out backwards. Avoid the front end. I have found in practice - this is quite difficult to do - ie puppy doesn't wait for you to grab it.

Edited September 15, 2012 by Mrs Rusty Bucket

[aussielover]

Isn't it interesting - the dogs that CM has "rehab'd", are always trying to get away from him, they're looking away from him and doing all sorts of dog calming signals...

And Susan Garrett's dogs are all doing exactly what she asked of them and waiting patiently with extreme attention on her for any sign of the fun thing they're going to do next together.

True but Susan Garrett trains for dog sports, rather than rehabilitation, so its difficult to compare.

I think there would be very few agility competitors these days that use dominance type methods or CM methods to train their agility dog.

I do find it irritating and sad that some puppy school teachers seem to be very misinformed and pass this onto their clients

To the OP: I would also recommend finding another puppy school.

Preferably one that keep the pups on lead most of the time and has a smaller number of puppies (up to 5).

Good puppy schools also try to keep similar size pups in the same group, although obviously this can be difficult.

There are always outgoing and shy puppies in every class. Generally by the second or third class, most puppies come out of their shell, if they haven't been too stressed.

[Pretty Miss Emma]

At the puppy school Hamish attended there was one puppy who often sat under the chair at play time. The first week she just sat under and snapped at other puppies who tried to play with her, but they all took the message and played with other puppies. The second week she got put down on the floor first and had a good 10 minutes or so to explore the place with no other puppies on the floor - she became more confident and wandered between feet and through the open area in the middle to look at toys and even came up to sniff Hamish while I was holding him; then Hamish was allowed on the floor so that she wasn't overwhelmed by lots of puppies at once, she was fine with this although they just sniffed and then Hamish went to find his kelpie puppy friend!!! After that more puppies were allowed on the floor (and there was a max of 5 in the class). Each week she was allowed on the floor first and then other puppies were added to play time. By the end of our classes she was more than happy to interact with the other puppies on her terms and in a friendly way. She hadn't been anywhere other than home though before coming to the puppy school.

Like everyone else said, what your puppy is doing sounds pretty normal for a bit of a shy puppy. And if your not comfortable with what the trainer is asking of you then I would be tempted to find somewhere else. If you do decide to stay there just make sure that you don't let them do anything you are not comfortable with (particularlyif they do something horrific like try to force your puppy in to the middle of play - don't scoff one of my friends almost had this happen at a puppy school she went to until she picked up her puppy, who was confident but just sitting watching for a bit, and told the trainer where to go!! She still stayed at the class just so pup got to be around other puppies, but the trainer didn't get her to "do things" after that!!!).