Horsegal98 Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I am purchasing a rough collie puppy, from a litter that will arrive (god willing!) towards the end of the year. I really click with the breeder and her dogs are lovely BUT She told me that she sells all her dogs regardless of quality, except those going to other registered breeders, on the limited register. I have no intention of breeding and the bitch puppy will be neutered before she leaves the breeder. My issue is that I have really enjoyed competing my terriers in the past, only on a low level as a hobby, and would love my kids to have the same opportunity and compete in junior handler classes etc. Would I have the right to ask politely that if the pup is desexed, could she remain on the full register so that I can enter her in neuter classes? How can I tactfully approach the breeder about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 ask her as you have asked here, she can only say no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 A lot will depend on if there is a bitch good enough to appear in the ring but not too good to be kept for breeding, so ask the breeder now so they have time to consider the request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Regardless of what the breeder says maybe see if an obedience club near you is doing Rally O, as that is probably something else your kids could compete in and it doesnt matter what register they are on Also you cant compete in junior handlers with a dog under 12mths of age- so perhaps ask your breeder if they could transfer her onto the main register after assessing her at 10mths? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyBlue Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Personally, I would be a bit concerned about getting a puppy that was desexed that young and would be asking if she was willing to let you sign a no breed contract or co-ownership. Its my understanding that the breeder can always choose to upgrade the registration to mains later on. Perhaps you should politely discuss your concerns with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Personally, I would be a bit concerned about getting a puppy that was desexed that young and would be asking if she was willing to let you sign a no breed contract or co-ownership. Its my understanding that the breeder can always choose to upgrade the registration to mains later on. Perhaps you should politely discuss your concerns with her. There is no mention of infant desexing. I would imagine it is to be desexed and in a desexing contract to be done at 6 months. But yes, speak to your breeder, tell her your thoughts. The dog can always be transferred once from Limited to Main Register too by the breeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Personally, I would be a bit concerned about getting a puppy that was desexed that young and would be asking if she was willing to let you sign a no breed contract or co-ownership. Its my understanding that the breeder can always choose to upgrade the registration to mains later on. Perhaps you should politely discuss your concerns with her. There is no mention of infant desexing. I would imagine it is to be desexed and in a desexing contract to be done at 6 months. But yes, speak to your breeder, tell her your thoughts. The dog can always be transferred once from Limited to Main Register too by the breeder. The OP states the puppy will be neutered before leaving the breeder. Not something I would want in a breed as big as a Collie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsegal98 Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 Thank you for the comments. I wasn't sure if I was being unreasonable putting this forward. And of course it is somewhat hypothetical-- depends on a bitch that is actually show quality and available being thrown in the litter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Thank you for the comments. I wasn't sure if I was being unreasonable putting this forward. And of course it is somewhat hypothetical-- depends on a bitch that is actually show quality and available being thrown in the litter. I would love it if one of my puppy owners asked about this!! So not in anyway unreasonable :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty Miss Emma Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Have the conversation just as you have mentioned here, like others have said. That is what I did when I got Hamish and he is on Main so that I can have a go at showing and see if I like it (it probably did also help that I got Kenzie from the same breeder 2.5 years earlier on Limit and have kept the breeder fullly informed of all her "achievements" etc!!). As others said the worst that will happen is that they say no, but you never no if you never ask!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 If the pup isn't show quality then i would suggest the breeder will say no. Nuetor class should still be about a quality dog not a pet dog . If you wish to show then i would suggest you need to inform the breeder now so they can advice what the options are. If they already have orders for show potential pups then chances are they will say no that is ofcourse providing there are enough bitches to go around in the first place . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsegal98 Posted September 13, 2012 Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 I've shown horses most of my life, and we tend to encourage everyone with a registered animal to go into classes, especially kids. Shetlands are my breed specialization and though there are ponies that will not win at national or royal level, they get out and about at all the local shows and the owners enjoy doing it even if the ponies are not the most 'typey' and even if they are not getting any blue ribbons...does this just not happen in the dog world anymore? Back in the 90s I met many who competed their dogs for pleasure. Not disputing that animals shown in any clasa, including a neuter class should be of good quality, but as long as there are only minor deviations from the breed standard shouldn't an exhibitor be allowed to get out there with their dog and enjoy themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I've shown horses most of my life, and we tend to encourage everyone with a registered animal to go into classes, especially kids. Shetlands are my breed specialization and though there are ponies that will not win at national or royal level, they get out and about at all the local shows and the owners enjoy doing it even if the ponies are not the most 'typey' and even if they are not getting any blue ribbons...does this just not happen in the dog world anymore? Back in the 90s I met many who competed their dogs for pleasure. Not disputing that animals shown in any clasa, including a neuter class should be of good quality, but as long as there are only minor deviations from the breed standard shouldn't an exhibitor be allowed to get out there with their dog and enjoy themselves? Of course they should be able to enjoy it but many people feel this is a class where anything can be shown & it shouldn't be turned into a pet class for fun. It is judged just like a normal dog show & judges can no award . Someones prefix is attached to that dog & good ethical breeders still like to be proud of what the send in the ring & that should apply to both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I've shown horses most of my life, and we tend to encourage everyone with a registered animal to go into classes, especially kids. Shetlands are my breed specialization and though there are ponies that will not win at national or royal level, they get out and about at all the local shows and the owners enjoy doing it even if the ponies are not the most 'typey' and even if they are not getting any blue ribbons...does this just not happen in the dog world anymore? Back in the 90s I met many who competed their dogs for pleasure. Not disputing that animals shown in any clasa, including a neuter class should be of good quality, but as long as there are only minor deviations from the breed standard shouldn't an exhibitor be allowed to get out there with their dog and enjoy themselves? Most show dogs have minor deviations from the standard as there is no such thing as a perfect dog. To have any chance in the showring, neuter or not the dog must be of show quality though. It is hard enough for anyone new to the dog world to win without starting with a puppy that isn't good enough. No breeder should allow anyone to show a dog they wouldn't show themselves. As the neuter classes become more popular they are attracting entries of retired Champion bitches who have been desexed and are chasing a second title as well as lovely males who would have been shown if they had been entire, so it is definitely not a "pet" class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Personally, I would be a bit concerned about getting a puppy that was desexed that young and would be asking if she was willing to let you sign a no breed contract or co-ownership. Its my understanding that the breeder can always choose to upgrade the registration to mains later on. Perhaps you should politely discuss your concerns with her. There is no mention of infant desexing. I would imagine it is to be desexed and in a desexing contract to be done at 6 months. But yes, speak to your breeder, tell her your thoughts. The dog can always be transferred once from Limited to Main Register too by the breeder. The OP states the puppy will be neutered before leaving the breeder. Not something I would want in a breed as big as a Collie. Sorry, re-read post. Totally agree with you. I wouldn't even do it to a Toy breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsegal98 Posted September 14, 2012 Author Share Posted September 14, 2012 The breeder uses a vet who is skilled in EAD. My sister is a vet and says she doesn't believe EAD does any harm, but I have had those I've desexed in the past desexed at the traditional age of around 6 months. That being said this is my first foray into a large dog breed, so I will review the literature available before commiting to EAD. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 There has been evidence suggesting that dogs which are desexed early do tend to grow taller than entire litter mates. There can also be differences in coat in desexed dogs as well, which is particularly obvious in the coated breeds. Having shown dogs and horses and having bred both, I personally feel that comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges. Showing a dog "just for fun" is very different to showing a horse for the same reason. Whilst it is always possible that a breeder won't mind you showing your dog in the neuter classes, it is equally possible that they would prefer you not do so for various reasons. Definitely follow the advice given to discuss the issue with the breeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJean Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 (edited) The breeder uses a vet who is skilled in EAD. My sister is a vet and says she doesn't believe EAD does any harm, but I have had those I've desexed in the past desexed at the traditional age of around 6 months. That being said this is my first foray into a large dog breed, so I will review the literature available before commiting to EAD. Thank you! I think you need to ask yourself who benefits from Early Age Desexing. Large breed early age desexing is for the breeder's peace of mind that is all. It's a welfare decision made on behalf of what is perceived to be best for the general, not the individual puppy that will belong to you. Hope you can find another puppy/breeder. Edited September 14, 2012 by lilli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 (edited) Some breeders use Early Infant desexing because tehyare concerned about their dog being used for breeding. Correct me anyone if I'm wrong , but this would be of a higher concern with breeds that a currently more popular than a smooth coated collie and likely to be used in a Designer DOg or BYB situation. I don't believe the Smooth Collie is currently in such high demand. Also while not doing any 'harm' it doesn't do much good either, short of ensuring the dog is 100% desexed. I have a popular breed, Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, and although not breeding any large amounts, careful buyer screening and a desexing contract has not let me down as yet. Some breeders like to use tubal ligitaion in bitches and a vasectomy in dogs. Edited September 14, 2012 by LizT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jed Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Before you even consider purchasing a pup which has been desexed as a puppy, I think you should read the literature and studies on early desexing. One of the problems is that the long bones continue to grow, which may change the angles of the hindquarters - resulting in HD, as well as other problems. Sex hormones are also growth hormones, the pup needs those hormones to grow properly. And yes, do put your question to the breeder, but if she continued to wish to desex, I would look elsewhere. Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now