Pretty Miss Emma Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 I can't comment if that's normal. But something that I was told to think about in that sort of circumstance... what if you want to get him desexed? What happens then? And there may be many reasons you want to desex, but good to discuss with them what would happen in that circumstance (would they say no and then leave you with an entire dog or say they will take the dog back, would they take a samples and have themstored frozen and then you can desex, or would there be something else that would happen?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 That's very good, I never thought of that! I think its a big commitment to make saying I wouldn't have him fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adnil444 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Hi, I've gone from a 3 dog house to a 1 dog house in just under 6 months (my 14 yr old mini schnauzer was pts in Feb due to ill health and my dobexkelpie was pts in June due to cancer - he was 4.5 yrs old). My remaining dog, Rosie (dobexrottweiler) had never been alone before, and I thought she would struggle, but she is doing really well. She would not adjust to another dog easily - she was the last one to enter my house and was 10 months old when I rescued her. She is now 4, and she is a bit reactive to some other dogs and I wouldn't trust another dog with her alone (at this stage anyway). I would hate to be in a situation where I had to manage 2 dogs all the time if they didn't get along. She has play dates with other dogs each week and with just the one I am now concentrating on getting some obedience titles with her (we got our Rally Novice this year, now working on CCD). I actually find 1 easier, cheaper, cleaner etc. I used to vacuum 2-3 times a week - now only once. The food bills are halved, the vet bills halved, the pet insurance has decreased by two thirds. My backyard can now get back to the way it originally was (it is like a moonscape at present). It did take a lot of extra time to do separate walks, training etc - I made sure that I did activities separately so they wouldn't suffer from separation anxiety and they all were fine doing things alone, or the one being left behind. I can now devote more time to her than with the 3. Don't get me wrong, I loved having the 3 - they were a joy together and watching them play and interact was great. I think it would be easier to have multiple smaller dogs - feeding 3 small ones would probably be the equivalent of feeding one large dog, small dogs don't cause the damage to the yard like larger dogs can (the weight of them running, turning etc did awful things to my lawn - lol). I can also ask my mum to mind just one dog, but with multiple it does become harder. My dogs came with me everywhere and have access to the house/yard all day when I'm at work. When I leave Rosie alone, for any length of time, she gets a frozen kong, hidden treats, etc. But she has settled down now that she is 4 and is quite content to sleep either on my bed or sunbake on the back deck. She gets to play with her doggie friends each week and she is walked twice daily. One day I may go back to having another dog, but for the time being I'm really enjoying spending my time with just Rosie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Co owner deals like that can be a bit messy from what I've read on here, maybe start a thread in breeders and ask them what sort of arrangements need to be made to protect all parties? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Ok, breeder wants to use pup as stud if i buy is this a normal occurrence? I don't mind, I just wondered if this was normal? hmm, think long and hard and make sure everything is in writing! Who gets the stud fee, do you still pay full price for the pup if she uses him over one of her own bitches, how many times will she use him, who owns him while all this is happening, when can you get him desexed if you want to etc, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkhe Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Co owner deals like that can be a bit messy from what I've read on here, maybe start a thread in breeders and ask them what sort of arrangements need to be made to protect all parties? I agree - I would never do it. I've read too many stories here and on other forums etc that I'd steer verrrrrry clear It may be less of an issue with a male dog than a female, but still, I would only want full ownership myself :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Itisnt standard. I believe it us called breeders terms? If they want to use him as a stud would they want him to come to them, or would he just go to a vet for collection? I'd never want my dig to leave my care and stsy with someone else for breeding. Whatever you fo make sure the contract is rock solid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Hmm this could get very messy! She said she would reduce the buying price for stud duties but I would own him. It was on out of the blue proposition actually. I'm a bit nervous about it now tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 (edited) Hmm this could get very messy! She said she would reduce the buying price for stud duties but I would own him. It was on out of the blue proposition actually. I'm a bit nervous about it now tbh. but how many stud duties? I have no idea of pom prices but say they are $1000 each and he ends up siring 3 litters of 4, that's $12000, less costs of course, but the breeder could still make a reasonable sum of money out of the dog. And for that all you get is a reduced price? Nope. Buy him outright and if he turns out good enough then negoiate a stud fee if and when the time comes. Edited September 5, 2012 by Rebanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 That makes sense. He was $2000 to buy but $1500 if I gave her stud duties which wouldn't add up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 (edited) That makes sense. He was $2000 to buy but $1500 if I gave her stud duties which wouldn't add up! so if half the pups were show quality and were sold for $2000 that = $12000 plus $1000 each for the pet pups, in total that is $18000 potentially! (going with my pretend 12 pups from previous post) ETA of course it's not just the money but these type of arrangements can end up very messy. You need to be very sure about all of this. And have whatever you agree to in writing. If the breeder is one whose dogs you really, really like then think about it. Breeders are allowed to make money on litters but, from the puppy price it seems the stud fee would normally be a lot more then the $500 reduction that she would give you. Edited September 5, 2012 by Rebanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 I see, definitely not in my best interest at all! I think it has a potential to get messy and I have no idea about breeding, nor do I want to get into breeding so I think its safer to avoid. I'm still making decisions anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Hmm, interesting. I personally wouldn't take a dog on breeders terms, as others have said. Whilst I would never breed a dog (boy or girl) without working with their breeder I want the final decision about breeding to be mine. Not about the money but about the welfare of my dog and its puppies. However much I trust my dogs' breeders my dogs are now MY family. Also agree with Rebanne, if the pup turns out breeding quality you can still stud him and still work with his breeder if you both want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsaremyworld Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Sorry I disagree. I know many breeders who sell dogs for reduced prices for the promise of returned stud fees. Its a way for the breeder to keep hold of her bloodlines, when she may not be in a position to keep another dog at her home. First as someone else has said, you need to work out if you want an ENTIRE male dog. Potentially for the rest of his life. My advice - get a contract stating how many stud's she is asking for. It is NOT normal for a breeder to ask for never ending stud's from a dog. Nor is it fair. The money factor has been pointed out before. We have one show dog here that we bought on breeder's terms (fully owned by us) - we got a $300 reduction for 2 matings. The breeder we bought him off, forgot she had this deal with us though, and rang us, asking to use him for payment of a fee! I also own two of my show dogs in co-owned names. With a dog we owned previously, we did have some problems, but that was to do with things to do with breeding. (he didn't think any dog was good enough to be put to our bitch) But the breeder I co-own with now is FANTASTIC. She has become really one of my best friends, and is a great mentor. Our contract is in writing, so both of us know where we stand. If you do go ahead with it, make sure you get everything in writing, and you understand exactly what she is asking of the dog in the future. That way you can decide whether you are ok with it or not. Seeing she obviously wants the bloodlines of the dog for mating in the future I completely understand the reason she wants you to co-own. If she doesn't have her name on the papers she has no legal power over the dog. I wouldn't rule it out. Maybe after the agreed number of stud's you could write into the contract that she will sign the dog 100% over into your name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 (edited) But if, in this specific case, Donatella was to take this puppy for reduced price with the condition of a certain number of stud duties, wouldn't that mean she is committing to showing this pup (either herself or the breeder doing it)? Which she may or may not want to do. Also what happens if he doesn't turn out show quality? ETA - genuine questions, I'm new to this and trying to understand. Edited September 5, 2012 by Simply Grand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mashlee08 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Sorry I haven't read the entire thread, but does she want to stud a dog without showing him? Would she pay for all health tests and stuff as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 But if, in this specific case, Donatella was to take this puppy for reduced price with the condition of a certain number of stud duties, wouldn't that mean she is committing to showing this pup (either herself or the breeder doing it)? Which she may or may not want to do. Also what happens if he doesn't turn out show quality? ETA - genuine questions, I'm new to this and trying to understand. This is why you have a very detailed contract. Not all breeding dogs are shown but a lot of people would say that ishighly desirable. As for what happens if he does't turn out the way the breeder wants or they choose not to use him again that needs to be in writing. Also what happens if he gets injured or even dies before stud duties are done? It all needs to be written down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Crazy Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 (edited) I would just pay the extra & own him out right. Save any hassels that may occur IMHO. Maybe you might be best to wait till another puppy comes along that you like if you can't come to an agreement that suits with this boy. I waited over 12 months for my 2nd dog, a little girl & had 4 'false alarms' if you will. For one reason or another the arrangements fell through. I just didn't want any puppy though, I had my eye on certain blood lines & I required a little girl so it narrows down you selection some what. I am now owning 2 dogs together for the first time. Have always had just one. I am loving it. Yes it is more work but to see them play together everyday makes it all so worth it. My baby girl is a lot of dog, very complex, I wasn't anticipating that. Hence when I say 'extra work'. They are all very different characters. Lucky my boy is a very lay back lad as they compliment each other perfectly. What I have also loved is that my first dog has really blossomed since getting Stella. Another thing I wasn't anticipating. I really think you have to go with your gut instinct on this call. Sounds like you have really want & could handle 2. Then go for it :) & enjoy. Edited September 5, 2012 by BC Crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Panzer Attack! Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 I'd be careful. Scooter was sold to me (outright) as an entire male show quality dog. He had to be desexed at 6 months, but his breeder is BRILLIANT and was (and is) so supportive. I kept him, but I'd always planned to if he didn't work out. So no entire dog for me for a while! I never wanted to co-own a dog, so many ways things can go wrong! I actually prefer one dog to two. Three is a PITA. HOWEVER - if I had 3 dogs like Tucker things would be different! My dogs tolerate each other but they definitely don't ~love~ each other. Renting is easier with one. Vet bills are $$$ no matter how small your dogs are. Poots is incredibly energetic and drivey, and very different to how I expected a toy dog would be to live with. Many years were shed over him over the first six months! He's also been attacked at dog club, which has made him reactive to other dogs. I'm prepared to work on him for as long as it takes... I guess what I'm asking is are you totally dedicated and prepared for whatever may happen? I def couldn't handle two of him LOL. Two are amazing if they love each other. Having the same breed can be a huge bonus, Pootie and my old foster Pap (now lives with my Munmy) WORSHIPPED each other, and he absolutely loves going to Murve's and hanging out with her guys (and the Whippets, he loooves Whippets). Just trying to give you a more balanced view. Multiple dogs isn't all sunshine and roses. Actually had a lady at work yesterday who was rehousing one of her Poms, they didn't like each other (the dogs) and he was too high energy and smart for her to have time for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 I'm supposed to go and see them all on Sunday but i'm not sure its a good idea now, I'd better make my mind up before then as to whether or not I will go ahead because there is no such thing as going to look at a cute puppy and saying no (in my eyes...). I've never lived with an entire male and i'm not sure what they're like. I'm presuming more humping and pissing and I need to factor Lucy into that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts