Recurring Injury In Young Agility Dog

[megan_]

Fergus is a novice agility dog who has always LOVED agility. We both really enjoy the training. However, in the last year, he has injured his back three times. I have been seeing Ray Ferguson about this and he said given its recurring nature it is most probably a chronic (ie ongoing, but not bad) issue. We are now seeing a physio too.

So my question is, if this was your dog, would you continue to do agility with him?

A few points:

* He is not lame AT ALL. The only reason I notice something is that, when his injury plays up, he doesn't jump with as much zeal and doesn't like to tug too much. He doesn't limp at all, displays no stiffness and still hoons around the garden like a maniac. The first time he was hurt he avoided jumps totally. If he doesn't want to jump I don't force it (after being told it was a motivational issue by some trainers, I now know this isn't the case). I don't believe the average pet owner would even know that something is wrong.

* He normally loves agility and is really enthusiastic about it. I love it too. I'm a firm believer that every dog should have a job/sport to do and I must admit I'd be a bit heartbroken to give it up now that I'm finally getting it. I love working with him and I simply don't enjoy obedience as much . That said, I don't want to continue doing something that does him damage.

I asked Ray what he'd do if Fergus was his dog and he said he'd continue with agility, with physio and massage to help him heal. I've also got a fitness peanut to help build strength in his back. If Ray said stop, I'd stop in a heartbeat, have a little cry and get over it.

Edited September 13, 2012 by megan_

[ness]

Tough situation megan. I think you can only be guided by what the "professionals" have to say. I am in a similar situation with my young dog and have been for a while and I think you have to reach the point where you are happy with whatever decision you end up deciding on - whether that is to retire him or not. Its not a decision to be rushed and I haven't reached it with my youngster. I am still hoping she gets back to it but her problems are a little more complicated then your youngsters by the sounds of things.

Its hard when they are young and active otherwise. At this stage in spite of all she has had wrong with her the physio and the ortho specialist both see no reason why I shouldn't get her back to it. The chiro vet is a little more conservative on his outlook over things and has suggested she may not get back to agility. Time will tell. We are taking things a day at a time and having lots of rough spots along the way.

Edited September 4, 2012 by ness

[~*Shell*~]

Does he heal completely between flare ups? Or are you still jumping him etc? Would it help to pull him for a while to strengthen the entire area and build up some really solid core strength and then go back to it and see if the injury happens again?

[dragonwoman]

Fergus is a novice agility dog who has always LOVED agility. We both really enjoy the training. However, in the last year, he has injured his back three times. I have been seeing Ray Ferguson about this and he said given its recurring nature it is most probably a chronic (ie ongoing, but not bad) issue. We are now seeing a physio too.

So my question is, if this was your dog, would you continue to do agility with him?

A few points:

* He is not lame AT ALL. The only reason I notice something is that, when his injury plays up, he doesn't jump with as much zeal and doesn't like to tug too much. He doesn't limp at all, displays no stiffness and still hoons around the garden like a maniac. The first time he was hurt he avoided jumps totally. If he doesn't want to jump I don't force it (after being told it was a motivational issue by some trainers, I now know this isn't the case). I don't believe the average pet owner would even know that something is wrong.

* He normally loves agility and is really enthusiastic about it. I love it too. I'm a firm believer that every dog should have a job/sport to do and I must admit I'd be a bit heartbroken to give it up now that I'm finally getting it. I love working with him and I simply don't enjoy obedience as much . That said, I don't want to continue doing something that does him damage.

I asked Ray what he'd do if Fergus was his dog and he said he'd continue with agility, with physio and massage to help him heal. I've also got a fitness peanut to help build strength in his back. If Ray said stop, I'd stop in a heartbeat, have a little cry and get over it.

Do what Ray says. I have been seeing him with one dog or another for 25 years, including chronic backs and legs. My philosophy is better a short happy life than a long frustrated one and I've made that awful decision twice over the years. Maybe Fergus would enjoy something else, tracking is one option and obedience can be great, the challenge being for the trainer to put some meaning in it for the dog, not that easy to start with but when the dog learns to learn it accelerates!!! Good luck

[megan_]

Thanks. Shell - He does seem to heal between bouts. We have a month off due to the training grounds being unavailable, so we're going to work on strengthening during that time. We've been working on the peanut - has anyone noticed a difference in their dogs after a few weeks?

We do tracking and some obedience anyway. We do fun, positive obedience but both he and I don't enjoy it as much as agility. I know that OB can be fun, I just don't enjoy it as much as agility. I guess I'm being a little selfish here as I recently decided that I wasn't going to get a third dog and if I stop agility with Fergus it means I won't do it for 10+ years (because I plan on having my littlies live long, healthy lives). Agility is my hobby too, if that makes sense.

ness - you're right, I don't actually need to make these decisions now. We can focus on strength and go from there. I guess I feel frustrated as I went to the state trial on Saturday to have a look and one of the trainers said that Fergus could easily do the agility and jumps courses. I feel like we've been stop-start for the whole year *reminds herself that we do this for fun*

[Salukifan]

I'd want to know the reason for the recurring injury first and foremost.

If it's structural, then I'd retire the dog. If a chronic injury, then I'd want to know the whys and wherefores as to how it is occurinig.

However, in my opinion you don't compete with dogs that are unsound or likely to become unsound repeatedly. They often pay for it with years of pain down the track. You have other options to compete him in.

And no, I'm not talking theoretically here. I retired my last agility dog the day he was diagnosed with a spinal issue. I could have kept competing him but he'd have paid for it over time.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[megan_]

HW - we've had X-rays (and ray is the expert in this in Victoria as he does all the Penn hip scoring) and he has found nothing structurally wrong. It us a muscle issue.

He is kept very lean but is a cross breed and to my completely untrained eye he isn't properly proportioned - he has the deep MS. Chest with skinny mini poodle legs. That said, ray hasn't said he is structurally unsound.

[Kavik]

What about something like nosework (scent detection)? I think there may be someone trying to bring it in as a sport from what I can gather on the grapevine. Scentwork is all motivational, heaps of fun and certainly challenging! And would not be as demanding physically as agility.

Or there is Rally.

[ness]

Megan I totally share your frustration - Kenz hasn't seen an agility course in nearly 2 years now and has had the last 4 months almost completely out of action recovering from ortho surgery.

[pipsqueak]

Is flyball perhaps an option, or not with the twisting turns? Only suggesting it as I believe that the jump heights might be a lot lower than agility??? Know nothing really about agility or flyball, but just throwing the idea out there.

[Salukifan]

Is flyball perhaps an option, or not with the twisting turns? Only suggesting it as I believe that the jump heights might be a lot lower than agility??? Know nothing really about agility or flyball, but just throwing the idea out there.

I can't think of a harder sport on a dog physically than flyball.

[Salukifan]

HW - we've had X-rays (and ray is the expert in this in Victoria as he does all the Penn hip scoring) and he has found nothing structurally wrong. It us a muscle issue.

He is kept very lean but is a cross breed and to my completely untrained eye he isn't properly proportioned - he has the deep MS. Chest with skinny mini poodle legs. That said, ray hasn't said he is structurally unsound.

Can you post a stacked and a jumping shot?????

[canine fun sports]

What area of his back is sore?

How much tugging do you do with him?

Cheers,

Edited September 4, 2012 by canine fun sports

[megan_]

HW - I'll try to take some shots. I'm on my own so it might be "interesting"

CFS - no tugging at the moment. He doesn't like to tug when he's sore. It is the lower back. We don't normally tug excessively as I like to keep it as a high value reward. Maybe once every few days, if that.

[canine fun sports]

CFS - no tugging at the moment. He doesn't like to tug when he's sore. It is the lower back. We don't normally tug excessively as I like to keep it as a high value reward. Maybe once every few days, if that.

Tugging incorrectly can cause neck and lower back soreness. Just keep that in mind. Even if you do not do it often, it may be related. Obviously, if he does not like to tug when he is sore, it uses those muscles that are sore!

Also look at his jumping style - does he push off with his hind quarter and turn in the air to land, or is he throwing himself upward with his forequarters, and jarring himself on landing.

Some people think that the decent on the scramble is also jarring to the back, especially if going into a 2on2off position.

Weaving style can contribute to back soreness, too.

Just a few things to consider that might be contributing.

I would be looking to ways to strengthen his back, and increase the flexibility in his back. Do you have a good canine physiotherapist where you are?

Cheers,

[megan_]

CFS - we have an appt with a physio next Thursday - she's meant to be very good and specialises in dogs.

His jump style has always been pretty natural - he seems to push off his hind legs and land smoothly. We don't do weavers or contacts that often (contacts once a week, weavers 1 - 2 times a week for a few minutes tops). He was keeping his head a bit high during the weaves so we're now working on that (not until his back is better though).

[canine fun sports]

CFS - we have an appt with a physio next Thursday - she's meant to be very good and specialises in dogs.

His jump style has always been pretty natural - he seems to push off his hind legs and land smoothly. We don't do weavers or contacts that often (contacts once a week, weavers 1 - 2 times a week for a few minutes tops). He was keeping his head a bit high during the weaves so we're now working on that (not until his back is better though).

I do not know anything about the fitness of your dog, and I have not seen the dog working. So I feel I am stabbing in the dark. The one thing that jumps out out me here, though is if he is not as muscularaly fit as he should be, doing these exercises only once a week, may be the problem. Let's see what the physio says.

Cheers,

[megan_]

He does a lot of other exercise though, including lots of free play. He doesn't respond well to lots of drills. We used to train every day but after he got his first injury we scaled things back. But you have a point re: maybe not doing it enough.

[JulesP]

Personally I wouldn't continue to do an activity that was causing a recurring injury in my dog.

[megan_]

Personally I wouldn't continue to do an activity that was causing a recurring injury in my dog.

I don't know that it is agility that is causing the issue though - he could hurt himself zooming around?

I've decided to rest him re: jumps, work on strengthening his hind quarters (we need to do this regardless of agility, he is an active dog so needs to be able to move freely) and see what the physio said.

I worked from home today and we had a pre-booked private agility lesson set up during my lunch break. We went along and did no jumps, just focused on me building my handling skills and start stays with some targetting for 2o2o. I then trained Lucy in some jump sequences. When he saw the agility set-up he pulled like a steam train, he was so happy to be there (and he isn't the type of working dog that would be happy to work even if they were lame).