pare Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Hi, We have a 5 month old female Bernese Mountain Dog. When we are at work, we leave her in her pen which is approximately 2m x 5m. We do this because we also have a 40 kg male German Shepherd, and we didn't want to leave her with him unsupervised while she was so young. Now that she's getting bigger (about 23kgs)we're wondering whether we can leave her out with him while unsupervised. They are great with each other, but they do play quite a bit. I wouldn't call their play "rough", but there are the occasional bumps, and sometimes he'll put his paw over her shoulder, especially when they play tug of war (I guess he does this for leverage?). They tend to play in the morning, then sleep during the day, then play again in the afternoon. We have left her in her pen just in case unsupervised play does structural damage to her joints. He's never been aggressive to her or any other dog, so I'm not worried at all about that (though I guess you can't entirely dismiss the possibility). We feel sorry for her because she is in a small pen all day. What do you think? Should we leave her outside? Are her joints strong enough? Or should we err on the side of caution and leave her in her pen until she's older? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsaremyworld Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 That's a hard one! I would probably err on the side of caution for a while. We have much smaller dogs, but even so, the pups are kept seperated except when supervised for play and socialisation with the older dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mixeduppup Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Wait until she's a bit older and a bit bigger as Berners get quite large and she's at a really crucial growth stage and damage from play could end in pain and surgery. Not worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 23kgs is pretty big. I would 'risk it' and leave them together. I have a dog half that weight with another dog 50kgs plus all day. They don't play together at all though. So I guess the rough playing could be a concern for you..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Maybe keep them separated for a little while longer at least for the older dogs peace. Puppies can be very annoying :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 I wouldn't My 45-50kg dogs would never be left with a puppy 5 months old, whatever weight it was. Not unsupervised anyway. Dogs copy and you want to make sure they are getting the right example. Play is a concern when you are not around. They don't see the difference in sizes at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 I would wait until about 7 months when the risk to growing joints is less. 4-7 months is the most critical time for joints to be inhured, resulting in OCD and ED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph M Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Perhaps if the penning is an issue for you, and you're about done with that you could look at some kind of fence or temporary splitting of the backyard or something? An outdoor pen (though understandably would have to be pretty massive! haha) I don't know what I'd do, personally, just an idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 I'd leave her out. If they were to play at fencing running, the sudden stops and tunrs can also cause damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pare Posted September 3, 2012 Author Share Posted September 3, 2012 thanks for the replies everyone. it seems like the consensus is leave her in the pen for a while longer. this is what i was leaning towards, although the wife feels sorry for her so wants to leave her out with the shepherd. her pen is big enough so she can walk around a little and have her poop and pee area far away enough from her doghouse and bed. she's a happy bouncy pup, so she doesn't seem to be psychologically affected by it (we're probably the ones who are!) so, i think the plan for now is to keep her in there. she'll be getting desexed at 6 months anyway, which means she'll need to be in there for about 2 weeks anyway. then maybe wait til she's around 7 or 8 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Can you alternate the dogs & give them a day each in the pen instead of one in there every day ? I would not leave them together yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Dogs do most of their exercising and activity in the mornings and evenings (dawn and dusk) so if your dogs are provided with opportunity to play and socialise and to be active at these times, then putting your Berner pup in the pen during the day is IMO preferable for at least a while longer. Give her a bone to chew or stuffed kong and make going in there pleasant by giving her a treat when you put her in there. All my dogs love going in their runs and run to stand in them and wait for their treats :) . Large breeds like your Berner grow for a long time and have soft growth plates. At this age it is easy for an injury to occur (and a small chip can lead to issues such as OCD), so supervising play for a bit longer is a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fit for a King Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 pare - slightly off topic - did your breeder decide on desexing at 6mo? I personally wouldnl;t with such a large breed....puppies I place out must wait until after 12mo before they are desexed to allow optimal growing time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassie Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 Agree with keeping pup confined for a while longer. Supervised play only at this age, especially with a much larger stronger dog. I too would be waiting til 12-18 months to desex her if you're able to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pare Posted September 4, 2012 Author Share Posted September 4, 2012 i should probably confirm with the breeder what age she recommends desexing. I can't remember whether she said just before or just after her first heat. the desexing at 6 months was recommended by our vet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 (edited) i should probably confirm with the breeder what age she recommends desexing. I can't remember whether she said just before or just after her first heat. the desexing at 6 months was recommended by our vet. Desexing is usually recommended at 6 months so as to ensure it is done BEFORE the first heat. This is a way of protecting the bitch against mammary cancer. If it is done AFTER the first heat the risk of mammary cancer is increased. With larger breeds the first heat is often later than 6 months but six months is a generalisation. Speak to the breeder, sometimes we have to weigh out one thing against another, in larger breeds sometimes the growth rate is of concern and later desexing is recommended, that said, desexing her at 6-7 months won't have any huge detrimental affect on her well being. Many studies have been done, but much of it is anecdotal. Edited September 4, 2012 by LizT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Lolapalooza* Posted September 4, 2012 Share Posted September 4, 2012 I have a dog who was separated from the bigger one but one day when my husband was home they were playing together and he was on the roof and big dog rolled onto 5mo puppy and broke a bonein his knee......best to be safe than sorry and keep her separated until at least 10 months. I drill this into mypuppy people if they have a bigger dog too (I have berners) I would also advocate desexing around 12 months. It should say in your contract what the breeder recommends re what they wish for timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 With Great Dane puppies we don't leave them in with adults until they're about a year old. It very much depends on the dynamics of the dogs. If the dogs are goign to rough play then that is a risk for a large growing breed puppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeopener Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Hi, We have a 5 month old female Bernese Mountain Dog. When we are at work, we leave her in her pen which is approximately 2m x 5m. We do this because we also have a 40 kg male German Shepherd, and we didn't want to leave her with him unsupervised while she was so young. Now that she's getting bigger (about 23kgs)we're wondering whether we can leave her out with him while unsupervised. They are great with each other, but they do play quite a bit. I wouldn't call their play "rough", but there are the occasional bumps, and sometimes he'll put his paw over her shoulder, especially when they play tug of war (I guess he does this for leverage?). They tend to play in the morning, then sleep during the day, then play again in the afternoon. We have left her in her pen just in case unsupervised play does structural damage to her joints. He's never been aggressive to her or any other dog, so I'm not worried at all about that (though I guess you can't entirely dismiss the possibility). We feel sorry for her because she is in a small pen all day. What do you think? Should we leave her outside? Are her joints strong enough? Or should we err on the side of caution and leave her in her pen until she's older? Thanks in advance. I won't leave large & giant breeds alone with a play mate of any size untill around a year old or more unless in a small enough area I know they wont be wrestling & jumping over each other just to aviod any stuctural damage to growing joints & to protect thier young ligiments. I tend to leave that age group with an older quite non player if they need unsupervised company & other than that they can play together when I am home but have safe day run areas they can be kept if not. Maybe extend her amount of room by making her an outdoor day run with a shaded area etc where she can interact through the mesh with your other dog while your out also. I also prefer to not allow my youngsters to much unstuctured & unsupervised free time to develope bad habits like barking & destroying gardens & furniture as it's easy to address if ur there not so much if your away at work & your teenager dog knows it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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