What Is A Purebred?

[espinay2]

Oh, so you're saying that a dog can be pedigree but be a crossbreed? But the ANKC normally won't paper a dog that isn't pedigree purebred will it?

No a dog can HAVE a pedigree. A pedigree is a guaranteed family tree. Just like an official birth certificate is for people. The ANKC only manages and guarantees the pedigrees of specific breeds (there are many more world wide) and will only issue them for dogs whose family trees only contain dogs of the one breed ( there are technical exceptions but they are not really relevant here). Any dog can have a pedigree (family tree) and technically EVERY dog has one whether it is known or not. But not every dog has one that is officially guaranteed or certified.

Edited August 31, 2012 by espinay2

[tdierikx]

Dictionary definitions...

purebred - adj

1. denoting a pure strain obtained through many generations of controlled breeding for desirable traits

pedigree — noun

1. a. the line of descent of a purebred animal

b. ( as modifier ): a pedigree bull

2. a document recording this

3. a genealogical table, esp one indicating pure ancestry

4. derivation or background: the pedigree of an idea

[C15: from Old French pie de grue crane's foot, alluding to the spreading lines used in a genealogical chart]

T.

[espinay2]

In the days before the Limited Register not all puppies in a litter were registered by registered breeders. Dogs sold as pets were generally not registered as they were not used for breeding.These pups were definitely purebred and generally came with a written pedigree (my first pup came with a hand written ten generation pedigree) but not a registered or certified pedigree. These dogs were purebred, had a pedigree, but were not registered.

Dogs that come into rescue, if their origin can not be traced, may be considered pure ad a best guess baded on knowledge of the breed, but do not have a known pedigree. Without a known pedigree, their true status is tenuous and based purely on looks rather than genetics ( phenotype rather than genotype). This is the same for backyard bred dogs where pedigree is unknown either fully or partially.

A dog which is pure and has a guaranteed pedigree has both a known and guaranteed phenotype AND a known and guaranteed genotype.

Edited August 31, 2012 by espinay2

[mixeduppup]

Ok, I'm understanding more now. It's rather complicated.

[Simply Grand]

Yep, mixeduppup, like many things in the world of dogs people have differing opinions and different terms of reference on what certain terms mean. It's part of why legislation and education around animals is so difficult to make effective.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Simply Grand

[mixeduppup]

yeah makes sense. I just don't understand why purebred rescues exist if dogs can't be proven to be purebred or is ti more a fitting to type thing? Or do Purebred rescues only rescue papered dogs?

[Greytmate]

yeah makes sense. I just don't understand why purebred rescues exist if dogs can't be proven to be purebred or is ti more a fitting to type thing? Or do Purebred rescues only rescue papered dogs?

I would call most of these types of rescue "breed rescue" not "purebreed rescue". It is quite ok that an organisation would specialise in rehoming one breed. It can make it easier for them to market the dogs, and to educate adopters when they are only dealing with one breed or type of dog.

[tdierikx]

Most (pure)breed rescues will take unpapered dogs - which has been discussed at length in the Rescue forum recently... *grin*

T.

[Simply Grand]

I think it's a type thing, although no doubt they would encourage anyone with a pedigreed purebred to go through them if they couldn't return a dog to the breeder. Plenty of breed-specific rescues will also take crosses who appear to be and have characteristics of the breed.

[GeckoTree]

1) of the same race 2) the family tree within that race.

[mixeduppup]

Alrighty. This could be a whole uni course haha

[Esky the husky]

Oh ok. I see. Is that still done these days (OT slightly, sorry) Can I derail my own thread for but a moment? :)

Not really, however the breed I am seriously in love with/ dreaming of importing etc has a cross breeding program going currently.

The aims of this program are to increase the gene pool and also to try and reduce a breed specific seisure disorder.

Obviously the dogs won't be crossed with just any breed, the crosses themselves are approved before the matings take place.

After 5 gens, the crosses will be considered a pure example of the breed. Although if the dog is a good example of the breed they can be classed as 'pure' sooner.

A 3rd generation bitch I believe went BOB at the national championship.

This is a recognised breed by the kennel club in it's country of origin so can be shown in champ shows along with all other recognised breeds.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Esky the husky

[sandgrubber]

Oh ok. I see. Is that still done these days (OT slightly, sorry) Can I derail my own thread for but a moment? :)

Not really, however the breed I am seriously in love with/ dreaming of importing etc has a cross breeding program going currently.

The aims of this program are to increase the gene pool and also to try and reduce a breed specific seisure disorder.

Obviously the dogs won't be crossed with just any breed, the crosses themselves are approved before the matings take place.

After 5 gens, the crosses will be considered a pure example of the breed. Although if the dog is a good example of the breed they can be classed as 'pure' sooner.

A 3rd generation bitch I believe went BOB at the national championship.

This is a recognised breed by the kennel club in it's country of origin so can be shown in champ shows along with all other recognised breeds.

Personally, I'd be proud to own a dog whose health prospects were improved by a well-designed outcross-backcross program. It's the right thing to do. If people put notions of purity above health considerations, that's their problem.

[skelp2]

Isn't it just a case of semantics? I can't see all the complications?

A purebred is an example of a specific breed.

A 'pedigreed' purebred is one with papers to prove it.

A 'purebred' that is bought from a pound or a rescue organisation is purebred because it is obvious that it's antecendants were all of the same breed, and it looks exactly like that breed, but it is not pedigreed unless there are papers to prove it.

For instance a Pug - it's obvious if a dog is a pug and if found at the pound and sold, then that person has bought a purebred pug, because a pug crossed with another breed is very obvious (and usually downright ugly). They have not necessarily bought a pedigree pug however because it's breeding is unknown and if it was bred by a legitimate breeder, the papers to prove it are not available.

[Steve]

A pure breed is a group of dogs with an easily identifiable set of characteristics that remain constant over generations. It is a dog which has both parents of the same breed.

Whether it has registered pedigree or not.

In Australia the ANKC and some other registries issue a pedigree which is registered in the same way the registry of births deaths and marriages does for people. That doesn't mean its the only way to keep or issue an animal's pedigree nor is it the only way to be able to decide an animal is purebred. It certainly doesnt mean if you dont get papers that its not purebred but for me - without some type of pedigree where I can see what breed each animal in the pedigree is back several generations I assume it is not a purebred. I don't need that paper to be registered with one registry to believe it but I do need it to be registered to use the animal for breeding - even though I know that some of the info on that pedigree possibly isn't true.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Steve

[espinay2]

yeah makes sense. I just don't understand why purebred rescues exist if dogs can't be proven to be purebred or is ti more a fitting to type thing? Or do Purebred rescues only rescue papered dogs?

No, purebred rescues will rescue dogs based on phenotype. In other words how the dog LOOKS. Based on experience they may consider that a dog looks enough like their breed for them to take an interest in its welfare.

Purebred rescues may also do their best to determine any particular rescue dogs genotype. In other words, who bred the dog and if they can which individual dog it is. But this is not always (and sometimes depending on the breed - rarely) possible.

In a large number of cases where genotype is established, the breeder will often take responsibility for the dog - leaving more resources for rescue to deal with dogs which can only be identified by phenotype (looks) alone.

Take a look on my website - the 'in memory' section is best to start with - you will see photos of dogs which have various levels of identification. One where the pedigree is known, but is unregistered, one which was identified by looks alone and the rest where the pedigree is certified. All are 'purebred' dogs of the same breed.

[german_shep_fan]

Isn't it just a case of semantics? I can't see all the complications?

A purebred is an example of a specific breed.

A 'pedigreed' purebred is one with papers to prove it.

A 'purebred' that is bought from a pound or a rescue organisation is purebred because it is obvious that it's antecendants were all of the same breed, and it looks exactly like that breed, but it is not pedigreed unless there are papers to prove it.

For instance a Pug - it's obvious if a dog is a pug and if found at the pound and sold, then that person has bought a purebred pug, because a pug crossed with another breed is very obvious (and usually downright ugly). They have not necessarily bought a pedigree pug however because it's breeding is unknown and if it was bred by a legitimate breeder, the papers to prove it are not available.

Yep that is my personal reasoning also, but obv from the various veiws in the replies it is a case of semantics.

Coming from rural with working dogs it was always just considered that a purebred is a dog of a specific breed (papers or not). However a 'pedigreed' purebred is a purebred who has the papers to go with them.

Some seem to consider a purebred dog a dog that looks and acts like the breed whilst many others want the papers to prove it. I find this topic interesting as it makes me wonder if the title of the board really should be 'Australia's Pedigreed Pure Bred Dog Community' :p :laugh:

[dogsaremyworld]

I find this topic interesting as it makes me wonder if the title of the board really should be 'Australia's Pedigreed Pure Bred Dog Community' :p :laugh:

Remember when Dogs Qld made that HUGE bluff, and the president of the organisation appeared in front of a sign that said "for purebread dogs" - someone should tell them that it wasn't just the mis-spelling they had got wrong, they had also left off the word pedigree as well.

[LizT]

I like the take the GSD Obedience Club I trained at years ago had when I told them my pup wasn't papered (pre-limited Registery)...they told me....if it looks like a GSD, we want him to have every oportunity to be trained and socialised...bring him on down.

What constitutes a Purebred today will really depend on it's circumstances. A Cavalier we rescued from a Puppy Farm is microchipped and came originally from a Registered Bredder, somehow got sold on and ended up in a bad situation, no papers available for him...has been signed over but can't prove he is a "purebred" but clearly he is.

[dogsaremyworld]

A pure breed is a group of dogs with an easily identifiable set of characteristics that remain constant over generations. It is a dog which has both parents of the same breed.

Whether it has registered pedigree or not.

In Australia the ANKC and some other registries issue a pedigree which is registered in the same way the registry of births deaths and marriages does for people. That doesn't mean its the only way to keep or issue an animal's pedigree nor is it the only way to be able to decide an animal is purebred. It certainly doesnt mean if you dont get papers that its not purebred but for me - without some type of pedigree where I can see what breed each animal in the pedigree is back several generations I assume it is not a purebred. I don't need that paper to be registered with one registry to believe it but I do need it to be registered to use the animal for breeding - even though I know that some of the info on that pedigree possibly isn't true.

[/qu

I agree with you on the point about the type of registry. In a previous post I said that it had to be registered with the ANKC, but you are right, as long as the dog has a traceable, recorded ancestory, it does not matter which registry it is on to believe that it is a purebred.