RubyStar Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) Is there an "official" interpretation anywhere - would be really interested to know. Anyone know? In the purebred dog world, if you say "purebred" it's taken to mean "purebred/registered/with papers". Without papers, you can't prove your dog is purebred, anything could have snuck in back there. So what would you then call a dog who looks like a particular purebred but doesn't have papers? You can't call it a mix or a mongrel. I still don't agree. Pedigree purebred = papers. But no papers on what has all the physical and temperamental traits of a certain type of breed still is a purebreed to me. I have a Lab with no papers but was deemed to be a purebred gundog so is now on the Associate Gundog register. My other is pedigree. She is no less Lab than my papered one. I'd say she even has more natural Gundog abilities than the papered one. Edited August 30, 2012 by RubyStar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raineth Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Is there an "official" interpretation anywhere - would be really interested to know. Anyone know? In the purebred dog world, if you say "purebred" it's taken to mean "purebred/registered/with papers". Without papers, you can't prove your dog is purebred, anything could have snuck in back there. So what would you then call a dog who looks like a particular purebred but doesn't have papers? You can't call it a mix or a mongrel. I still don't agree. Pedigree purebred = papers. But no papers on what has all the physical and temperamental traits of a certain type of breed still is a purebreed to me. I have a Lab with no papers but was deemed to be a purebred gundog so is now on the Associate Gundog register. My other is pedigree. She is no less Lab than my papered one. I'd say she even has more natural Gundog abilities than the papered one. I agree with Rubystar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfumed Lillium Posted August 30, 2012 Author Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) I've just come back from overseas, so am re-joining this saga. Interesting that this JS BYB'er just had a 5 month old pup laying around ready for someone to take home that day! Must have been the pick of the litter. All the other posts made it sound much younger. Wonder if the Pom breeder knew her teeny baby, who is too small to go out in the rain, was being sent to live with a 5 month old JS, and not an 8 week old? She had 3 pups left out of a litter of 6. He was my pick as he is already showing similar traits to his father, i.e. the longer coat and the slightly broader muzzle. I love your sarcasm, what is the problem with some people around here? Pertaining to your question as to whether the Pom breeder was aware that I was also considering a JS? YES YES YES, I've already answered that question in another thread. The pom breeder was told about Beau days before transport was organised. You really needn't be judgemental when you clearly have no idea what I am all about; I am a responsible person who loves animals, I made it clear that I do not let my pomeranian out in the rain and never leave her alone with the JP unsupervised, that's clearly not enough for you, is it? so much angst, wow! Edited August 30, 2012 by Perfumed Lillium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lavendergirl Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 From what I understand, Purebred is a dog of a definite breed that fits a certain type. Pedigreed is a breed of dog with bloodlines and paperwork to back it up. That's my understanding anyway Yes thats more or less my understanding. What I mean is do any of the official dog organisations in each state have a definition - everyone can have an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfumed Lillium Posted August 30, 2012 Author Share Posted August 30, 2012 As for your original question - I would say that it looks like a fox face to me, but it is hard to tell at such a young age. As for your Spitz boy. It does not make him any less a dog but it does not make him a purebred dog if the breeder did not have a prefix. He is not on the purebred register therefore he is not a purebred. I'm sorry but that's the truth, and I have seen you ask for advice on here before and then completely ignore it. I know you may of had bad experiences with registered breeder's before, and I have as well, but buying from an unregistered breeder, means that you have most likely bought from a byb. Just because his parents and grandparent's have papers does not matter. He is not a registered purebreed dog, no matter what you say, unless you have in your hand a piece of paper with an ANKC with your pup's name on it. Im sorry it sounds harsh but it's the truth. Registered does not automatically mean reputable. There are other things you need to check for first, and in the case of your Cavalier, if you had asked the breeder for evidence of health testing for heart murmurs and MVD in the parent's you could of avoided that. Most reputable breeders check thier stock for heart disease, and can provide copies of certificates from specialists. A reputable breeder would also help you replace the dog you so tragically lost, or help you source one. I hope nothing goes wrong with your Spitz pup. But you have bought from a byb'er so you have greatly heightened the risk of the dog not turning out in regards to size, temperament, and inherited diseases. Asking advice and getting it has been appreciated, condemning me because I decided to go ahead with the pups borders on nastiness. Regarding the Jap. Spitz.....I've seen his parents and grandparents therefore I have every idea of what he is going to turn out like in regards to size & TEMPERAMENT, his parents & grandparents have a beautiful nature, I went to see this breeder on 3 separate occasions and spent a considerable amount of time with all pups and the breeding stock, that was enough to see for myself. I have no doubt he is a PUREBRED Japanese Spitz, papers or not. Once again, how does one decipher a reputable registered breeder unless you know people that have purchased the breed you are wanting which, in my case, this doesn't apply. PL both your dogs are gorgeous - don't let any of this nonsense effect your enjoyment of them one little bit. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 I've just come back from overseas, so am re-joining this saga. Interesting that this JS BYB'er just had a 5 month old pup laying around ready for someone to take home that day! Must have been the pick of the litter. All the other posts made it sound much younger. Wonder if the Pom breeder knew her teeny baby, who is too small to go out in the rain, was being sent to live with a 5 month old JS, and not an 8 week old? She had 3 pups left out of a litter of 6. He was my pick as he is already showing similar traits to his father, i.e. the longer coat and the slightly broader muzzle. I love your sarcasm, what is the problem with some people around here? Pertaining to your question as to whether the Pom breeder was aware that I was also considering a JS? YES YES YES, I've already answered that question in another thread. The pom breeder was told about Beau days before transport was organised. You really needn't be judgemental when you clearly have no idea what I am all about; I am a responsible person who loves animals, I made it clear that I do not let my pomeranian out in the rain and never leave her alone with the JP unsupervised, that's clearly not enough for you, is it? so much angst, wow! Why would the Pom breeder be worried about the JS puppy? Poms are always homed to multi dog homes including adult dogs so another pup of medium size should have been no problem. I know of 1 Pom breeder who also has German Shepherds, granted they're not allowed to run alone, but they live in the same household and spend time together. This is from Itty Bitty Poms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Nawww what a gorgeous pic! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Panzer Attack! Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Perfumed Lilium, the thing you need to understand is that this kind of thing happens on DOL ALL THE TIME. People come here to a purebred dog forum, where many of the members are breeders and show people, ask about buying dogs from registered breeders, argue with the advice they are given and then purchase a dog from a BYB. I'm sure many of the posters here are confused because you constantly slag registered breeders (many of which are giving you advice, which you asked for) and then buy a purebred registered dog. No one is saying that your older dog does not deserve to be a loved pet, please don't get the wrong idea. They are frustrated because people like your Spitz' breeder are only breeding for money. If they were breeding for the betterment of the breed they would be registered (IMO, and it's an opinion very popular on this purebred dog forum). There is no point picking fights (that goes for you, and the people that are sniping at you). What's done is done, yes, but it was a decision that you made after asking for advice and help. Dig a little deeper and have a read and you will understand WHY the forumers are so passionate about this kind of thing. Myself, I rescued a dog from a BYB/animal hoarder. Her and a large number of other dogs were seized by the RSPCA. She had many, MANY health issues and did not live a long happy life. Her puppies (however many of them) are out there now in lovely pet homes like yours, little ticking time bombs that have a huge chance of going off at any given time. Your dog may not have this problem due to the parents being bred by registered ethical breeders. But MANY do. And it's not fair that the breeders who put in all the work are rewarded by people that decide to breed these dogs just to make a little $$$. I could rant forever about it, it's so frustrating to me, but I don't even know why I'm bothering TBH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minyvlz Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 not an expert at all, but i'd say sable and foxy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCresties Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 (edited) Cute little pups and I wish you all the best with them :) But you should seriously consider toilet training the pom as well, as others have said as soon as your spitz boy gets a whiff he will be peeing/marking inside too and you will soon get very peed off with that! If my hairless boy coped perfectly fine with going outside to pee in the middle of the Scottish winters with snow and ice on the ground for weeks at a time, then I'm sure your pom can cope with a bit of rain - she is not going to melt. Maybe get a coat to pop over her when it is raining? Edited August 30, 2012 by CrazyCresties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyBlue Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Is there an "official" interpretation anywhere - would be really interested to know. Anyone know? In the purebred dog world, if you say "purebred" it's taken to mean "purebred/registered/with papers". Without papers, you can't prove your dog is purebred, anything could have snuck in back there. So what would you then call a dog who looks like a particular purebred but doesn't have papers? You can't call it a mix or a mongrel. I still don't agree. Pedigree purebred = papers. But no papers on what has all the physical and temperamental traits of a certain type of breed still is a purebreed to me. I have a Lab with no papers but was deemed to be a purebred gundog so is now on the Associate Gundog register. My other is pedigree. She is no less Lab than my papered one. I'd say she even has more natural Gundog abilities than the papered one. Yep Id agree entirely with this. My rescue lab was also deemed a purebred lab by dogsvic purely by assessing her type. I'd go one step further and say that for the majority of people, pedigree typically means registered with the ANKC. I am sure that there are plenty of breeders out there who keep pedigrees and extensive records of their dogs if they are breeding for working ability (guide dogs, customs, police, ADF come to mind) and I would be very surprised they were using the ANKC to store their pedigrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 If the Pom is racing about like a mad thing outside, then it's obviously enjoying itself and exercise. Give it five minutes to run around, do it's thing and then toilet. If you have to dry it off so be it. There are plenty of precious dogs who pee in the house when it's wet out, because they haven't been made to toilet in all conditions, why encourage it. and when it comes the BYB pups, there's some pots calling the kettle black in this thread. a dog with no papers, is not a purebred or a pedigree, it's just an animal that looks like a breed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonecutter Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 A Pom with a proper double cost should not take ages to dry. I have a JS and she goes to OB training, the toilet and walks in the rain. A 45 min walk in the pouring rain, a quick dry with a towel and she'll be dry fairly quickly. She even once fell into a pool - looked totally saturated, but a quick shake, towel dry and a sunny spot - back to normal in 15 min :) Ziva would also run around like a loon on toilet breaks until we started taking her out on lead - once she did her business, then she was allowed to have some zoomie time - it makes an easy reward :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podengo Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Double trouble... Raising two puppies at once Raising two puppies at once Leerburg - Raising two puppies at once: why it's a bad idea Problems Associated With Adopting Two Puppies at the Same Time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pollywaffle Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 my boy maltese is eight, has always hated the rain, but he goes outside and has survived! I know they're precious, but don't make them too precious! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) biting tongue :) Edited August 31, 2012 by donatella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 biting tongue :) Say it! You know you want to.... :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florise Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 "Obviously we wish this for all buyers of BYB dogs" WOW, you are a nice, caring person, wishing suffering on dogs from BYB situations . My dogs did come from registered stock anyway .... I suppose you missed that part as well No, I said that was an idiotic statment (on your part). Not sure what you hoping to achieve by being rude to the people that are trying to set you straight Why the clapping? It seems no matter how many times you are told, you cannot comprehend that registered stock needs to have their progeny registered in order for them to be purebred. And, I suppose you missed the part where I asked about whether you made sure the parents were health tested for known diseases? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfumed Lillium Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) I've just come back from overseas, so am re-joining this saga. Interesting that this JS BYB'er just had a 5 month old pup laying around ready for someone to take home that day! Must have been the pick of the litter. All the other posts made it sound much younger. Wonder if the Pom breeder knew her teeny baby, who is too small to go out in the rain, was being sent to live with a 5 month old JS, and not an 8 week old? She had 3 pups left out of a litter of 6. He was my pick as he is already showing similar traits to his father, i.e. the longer coat and the slightly broader muzzle. I love your sarcasm, what is the problem with some people around here? Pertaining to your question as to whether the Pom breeder was aware that I was also considering a JS? YES YES YES, I've already answered that question in another thread. The pom breeder was told about Beau days before transport was organised. You really needn't be judgemental when you clearly have no idea what I am all about; I am a responsible person who loves animals, I made it clear that I do not let my pomeranian out in the rain and never leave her alone with the JP unsupervised, that's clearly not enough for you, is it? so much angst, wow! Why would the Pom breeder be worried about the JS puppy? Poms are always homed to multi dog homes including adult dogs so another pup of medium size should have been no problem. I know of 1 Pom breeder who also has German Shepherds, granted they're not allowed to run alone, but they live in the same household and spend time together. This is from Itty Bitty Poms Beautiful photo that speaks a thousand words if in the hands of responsible individuals and there are some of us left in this world. :D Edited August 31, 2012 by Perfumed Lillium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perfumed Lillium Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) "Obviously we wish this for all buyers of BYB dogs" WOW, you are a nice, caring person, wishing suffering on dogs from BYB situations . My dogs did come from registered stock anyway .... I suppose you missed that part as well No, I said that was an idiotic statment (on your part). Not sure what you hoping to achieve by being rude to the people that are trying to set you straight Why the clapping? It seems no matter how many times you are told, you cannot comprehend that registered stock needs to have their progeny registered in order for them to be purebred. And, I suppose you missed the part where I asked about whether you made sure the parents were health tested for known diseases? :) You should have quoted your original post instead of just posting my response. It's not the way it was presented originally. I know exactly what you meant from the onset and can't be bothered looking for your original post just to prove a point. Edited August 31, 2012 by Perfumed Lillium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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