Imported Stud Impotence/infertility - More Common?

[Missymoo]

Ok so we were discussing this a couple of weekends ago and I suggested perhaps asking trusty DOL! Lol!

It seems there has been an increase on dogs that have been imported recently (last couple of years or so) that are shooting blanks upon siring litters here in Australia...can anyone relate to this?

Do you think it is vaccine related..ie have they changed the brand of vaccines used etc?

Ie some of these dogs have sired litters before leaving the country of origin too or tested to have live semen before leaving and then nil/ or blanks here...

Just some food for thought??

Edited August 25, 2012 by Missymoo

[Rebanne]

when they first arrive or after they have been here a while?

[Stolzseinrotts]

This will be interesting to see the responses.

How very dissapointing for the people importing the dogs!

[oakway]

when they first arrive or after they have been here a while?

Both Rebanne.

It just seems strange to me that after many years of dogs (males) being imported into Aust. we are hearing of "some" of the dogs being declared sterile by our vets. Has this always been happening ? or is it we just never heard about it, or is a new thing that is happening.

Some of the males never arrive, either because they were sperm tested by ever vigilant purchasers or they have been used before leaving their original country and no puppies result, therefore alerting the owners to a possible problem.

Firstly this is not a Witch Hunt!!!!. Just some enquiring minds that would like to see if it is a problem that could be avoided in the future.

Could it be that so much vaccine that is given these days it is just simply compromising the dogs system ?.

Could the brands of vaccine have anything to do with it.

Could it be that the necessary vaccines are given to close together and then compromise the system.

I have imported a bitch and a small one at that (Italian Greyhound) this bitch has received the same amount of vaccine as the largest dog is given. Yes, when she arrived at my home I would have said said that she was in a state stress and rightly so.

All the vaccines and upheaval from her only known home then the flight here and added quarantine her little body was starting to take it's toll.

Could this sterility be from stress in some cases ?. Well yes, it could be a factor, but what of the dogs that have never left their owners property being found sterile.

Is this just males ?.

Does anybody know of any bitches that have been found to be sterile after arrival.

I repeat this NOT A WITCH HUNT.

Their are some of us that would like to look into the matter further and see if we could come up with some helpful information that could be of help when importing dogs in the future.

[Missymoo]

Oakway, lol! You put it much better then I!! It was late....lol!

Yep all she said :)

[ellz]

For me it isn't a recent thing at all. I imported 3 American Cocker males, 2 from the USA and 1 from the UK between 1990 and 1992. The dog from the UK, imported as a puppy via New Zealand was sterile. As was one of the dogs from the USA who was young, fit and newly titled and had been used at stud in Hawaii en route to Australia. The bitch was confirmed in whelp and then reabsorbed and after his arrival in Australia it was discovered that he was subsequently sterile.

The third dog was fine, he also came via Hawaii (although did his quarantine in New Zealand), was proven (with champion progeny in 3 countries) but was reaching the end of his stud career at the age of 7. He was GIVEN to me as a replacement for the other US import.

I'm not convinced it is a new thing, probably moreso that the internet and improved methods of communication make it quicker and more fun to spread the news.

Editing to add: I'm not sure the subject line shouldn't read infertility rather than impotence. None of my boys had any trouble "doing the deed" it was just the firing blanks that was the issue.

Edited August 24, 2012 by ellz

[espinay2]

I do have knowledge of one dog imported about ten years ago who was sterile. But to my knowledge as he was not tested or used before he arrived, there is no way of directly linking it to any particular cause.

I do agree that the bombardment with vaccine, chemical treatments (worming/fleas etc) and stress of travel/quarantine etc all at once could potentially affect fertility. Whether permanently or temporarily?

I also find interesting some of Myra Savant-Harris's discussion of fertility issues and 'the rise of the dog room' - she discusses how the management of multiple dogs so that they get limited time outside (and also dogs kept in more 'climate controlled' circumstances such as air conditioning) means they are not recieving sufficient direct sunlight and/or are not experiencing sufficient temperature differentiation to allow them to cycle or produce normally. One thing she recommends for dogs that are kept inside a lot and experiencing problems with fertility is to get them outside for a greater proportion of the day.

[Missymoo]

Just to point out once again: this is a thread for a curious disscussion, not pointing fingers etc

[oakway]

For me it isn't a recent thing at all. I imported 3 American Cocker males, 2 from the USA and 1 from the UK between 1990 and 1992. The dog from the UK, imported as a puppy via New Zealand was sterile. As was one of the dogs from the USA who was young, fit and newly titled and had been used at stud in Hawaii en route to Australia. The bitch was confirmed in whelp and then reabsorbed and after his arrival in Australia it was discovered that he was subsequently sterile.

The third dog was fine, he also came via Hawaii (although did his quarantine in New Zealand), was proven (with champion progeny in 3 countries) but was reaching the end of his stud career at the age of 7. He was GIVEN to me as a replacement for the other US import.

I'm not convinced it is a new thing, probably moreso that the internet and improved methods of communication make it quicker and more fun to spread the news.

Editing to add: I'm not sure the subject line shouldn't read infertility rather than impotence. None of my boys had any trouble "doing the deed" it was just the firing blanks that was the issue.

Yes, had an inkling that this may not be a "New" problem but a case of just didn't comunicate with one another as easily.

Well, we established one thing, it is not a brand new problem.

[oakway]

Asking about this over the weekend I was given this answer.

Could it be that some dogs react with a higher temperature reaction to some vaccine.

Now what we want is good reaction to the vaccine to create a good immunity.

But, could this be a case of over reaction in temperature affecting the fertility especially where the vaccine is introduced twice ?.

[Rebanne]

I thought temperature induced infertility only impacted on the sperm already made/in production?

Mind you if it can cause problems in the short term what's to say it can't cause long term problems as well.

Interesting discussion.

What about imported bitches, they are born with all the ova needed, has there been a corresponding drop in their fertility or is it harder to detect?

[oakway]

I thought temperature induced infertility only impacted on the sperm already made/in production?

Mind you if it can cause problems in the short term what's to say it can't cause long term problems as well.

Interesting discussion.

What about imported bitches, they are born with all the ova needed, has there been a corresponding drop in their fertility or is it harder to detect?

Maybe in the bitch it may only destroy some where as in the male maybe it has a potential to destroy the workings ?.

Yes a great discussion where we all may learn something about this problem.

Lets face it it's a problem in some, not all.

Maybe we should start to think about what breeds it has happened to and then see if there are breeds that have not been affected.

[Roseclipt]

Definitely not a new problem - in the early '90's, we imported 3 male Danes, 1 from Norway iid'd to the UK, 2 bred in the UK. 1 was fertile, never any problems, 1 sired 1 litter out here, then sterile, and 1 became sterile at a young age. We were fortunate to be able to do experimental karyotyping on the dog who sired one litter, and found he was an XXY, so were able to karyotype his progeny as well, and clear the carriers out of the line. The 3rd one who became sterile was actually fortunate, as he developed DCM, so had little impact on the gene pool.

It is not at all uncommon for bitches from the northern hemisphere to have breeding problems once they get here - I have known of a number who have not bred on across different breeds - some producing 1 or 2 puppies, some none at all, others requiring prog. shots to hold litters.

[armahani]

The only way of establishing if this has ANYTHING to do with the importation process would be to work out if:

(1) the incidence rate of infertility in male imports is higher than those who remain in their country of origin

(2) the incidence rate of infertility in male imports is higher than those born and remaining in Aus

(3) the incidence rate of dogs who are fertile at x age and then infertile at y age is higher in male imports than those who remain in their country of origin

(4) the incidence rate of dogs who are fertile at x age and then infertile at y age is higher in male imports than those who are born and remain in Aus

Sounds like it could be quite an interesting study :D

But anything else to me is pure speculation. I've heard of plenty of Aussie born males who are infertile, and plenty who sire a litter or two and then end up infertile later in age. A number of cases of this happening to imports doesn't mean anything to me unless there is shown to be a higher likelihood of it happening in an import population than in a stable population.

[dancinbcs]

Change in climate could also be causing a problem. During the last drought I knew of a lot of breeders who were having trouble getting matings, getting bitches to concieve and if they did it was often with a singleton. This was across several breeds. All these breeders have gone on to breed normal litters since the drought broke. If the local dogs can be so adversely affected by extreme weather, how much worse would it be for dogs from the northern hemisphere, with opposite seasons and more extreme heat than many have ever been exposed to.

[Missymoo]

Great discussion, some thought provoking stuff here,

[oakway]

Thanks for all the imput everyone, but what we are trying to find out is this.......why are normal healthy dogs siring litters then being prepared for export given all the vaccinations to leave their own country only to be suddenly found out to be sterile, either before they leave their country of departure or found to totally sterile upon arrival in this country.

These are dogs of varying ages with no history of problems in the lines.

I accept what all you have said is totally correct and factual and thank you all for your input. But, what we want to know is why are lots of dogs going sterile when the litter brothers that are not prepared for export staying fertile.

What we are talking about is dogs going sterile during the export time never to be fertile again.

Keep it coming people it can only help.

[ellz]

I've often wondered if stress and change of environment wasn't a factor. But that said, of my three imported boys, the one who SHOULD have been infertile if stress was a factor was the only one who wasn't.....

I wonder too if the infertility is related to things like geography. Dogs who are required by geography to have rabies shots and who are from long lines of dogs who require rabies shots vs dogs who only really need rabies shots for export?

There are so many what-ifs, wherefores and whys....but it would make an excellent study for somebody doing a doctorate or masters at uni.....

[oakway]

I wonder if we will see a rise in infertility in dogs leaving England now, because in the change of regulations.

Maybe this would also be a good point to start.

Although as ellz says maybe the rabies vaccine could have something to do with because of it's prolonged use in some parts of the States. Remember it's a thought not a statement.

I have a feeling that it is an acculumination of too much too quick. Also just a thought.

Of course it may just be a case of bad luck with the importers of these dogs.

It also bothers me that the bitches we import still have pups, but as sugested are the litters smaller than usual.

The only we may know as if the bitch had large litters before leaving and that then halved after arrival.

Edited August 27, 2012 by oakway

[Missymoo]

ok what about pups that are imported into Australia becoming fetile and sring litters when mature...but adults whom have previously sired a litter, then after all the vaccinations done become sterile...I would have thought puppies would have been more likly to suffer from the effects of vaccinations than older/mature dogs?