Got The Hang Of Sit & Drop But....

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

If you can't use a clicker - you can use the word "yes" instead. It's not quite as good for isolating specific behaviours but it works for most things.

Watch for your dog to do something - anything, say "yes" and deliver a treat. Repeat. About five times for her to get the idea that "yes" = treat coming (I did something right).

My dog finds this (treat or not) immensely reassuring. Keeps her going, otherwise she thinks she's done something wrong and starts with the frustration behaviours (barking, zooming, going sniffing etc).

So for stand - the easiest thing for my dog - cos she knows "hand targetting" - is to say "stand" and put my hand where she has to stand up to nose it.

To teach hand targetting - first I'd say "yes" and let my dog eat a treat from the hand I want her to target. I'd hold this hand steady against my knee in a fairly vertical position, and when she sniffs or touches it next I'd say "yes" and then put the hand horizontal and drop a treat in it and let her eat it. Repeat about five times. Sequencing is important.

After five times - have a play (use a tug toy or run round the room or curl up in a ball and squeak aka hide and seek)

then you can start to build to repeating nose touches... hold hand steady - first time round - one touch - yes - treat. second time round - wait a bit after she touches to see if she will touch twice... then yes treat. Mix up how many touches you ask for. Also try to build for firmer touches.

All this helps when you want to train agility contacts later or dog dancing moves. Or a whole lot of stuff that involves targetting.

http://www.clickandtreat.com/Clicker_Training/clicker_training.html

Note I can't stand the sound of a clicker myself - so I prefer to use a word like "yes", but if I ever find one of those nice music chime things (like the jewerly box music thingies - but I only need one note), I'd use that.

[Jozlyn]

If you ask her to sit or drop, how do you tell her that she can move from the sit or drop? She should remain in the commanded position until you release or free her from the position. A common release word is free.

Ahh ok, I guess then the "treat" is the release, as I wait for a longer period each time I give the command and she obeys before I give it to her, hope that makes sense, then once she knows what I want her to do I then just randomly reward her. But she always gets a "good girl" which I guess is a release too.

As far as sitting goes, the release for that is kind of "ok" or I might throw her toy for her to "fetch", no consistency there, so that will change from tomorrow too :D

[Jozlyn]

Thanks Mrs Rusty Bucket, you even answered my question before I asked it lol!

More to learn than I thought, but I love research and learning, so I can't wait.

Training her is SO much fun.

[Weasels]

As far as sitting goes, the release for that is kind of "ok" or I might throw her toy for her to "fetch", no consistency there, so that will change from tomorrow too :D

I use OK as a release, but if I could go back I'd use something different! Often I have my dogs in a down-stay while I am listening to a trainer, then when they finish talking I say "OK" without thinking and my dog goes zooming off I would recommend usuing something you are less likely to say in everyday conversation :)

[Tazar]

Forget the chores, teach her to get a beer or soft drink out of the fridge! My old pooch mastered getting the wine and then the glass but I just couldn't get him to pour it

Even better - I just got a weekend project! :laugh:

!

Let me know if it works...lol

[Jozlyn]

All this helps when you want to train agility contacts later or dog dancing moves. Or a whole lot of stuff that involves targetting.

http://www.clickandtreat.com/Clicker_Training/clicker_training.html

I am definitely going to have to get some of her Dvd's, how increcdibly easy is that!

[Tazar]

As far as sitting goes, the release for that is kind of "ok" or I might throw her toy for her to "fetch", no consistency there, so that will change from tomorrow too :D

I use OK as a release, but if I could go back I'd use something different! Often I have my dogs in a down-stay while I am listening to a trainer, then when they finish talking I say "OK" without thinking and my dog goes zooming off I would recommend usuing something you are less likely to say in everyday conversation :)

Maybe you could use a double whamy for a release, like you have to face them front on, or go back to their side or put your arm out in addition to ok.

I alway return to my dogs side before release or I issue another command like calling them to come. :)

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

When you want to train a start line stay and reward staying with treats - treat-release is not so good. I know when I started - that's what my dog thought. Her fave release at start line is "go" ie run towards me flat out (and jump anything between).

So I use "go" for release - which my dog is good with but I sometimes get confused on the agility comp start line when the judge says "you may go when you're ready" or worse "you may go"... not that my dog will go until I say but it messes with my head.

Some people use Ok but find their dog will wander off from a stay position - when they're having a conversation with an instructor because it goes something like "try this" "ok" "where's the dog?".

Susan Garrett likes "break" which I find hard to remember to use at the right time.

I have lots of release words for different contexts tho.

"go" - for "go do the most rewarding fun thing and here's hoping it's run around the agility course with me".

"go play" for go play with the other dogs - there's no more rewards for you here - other than pats.

"go sniff"

"go say hello" - go greet your friends (dog or human). similar to "who dat dere?" or "where's Pele?"

"on special" - permission to eat dinner (I use "go" for this one too and a wave at the dinner bowl hand signal).

We didn't learn about the stay until released thingy without using "stay" until fairly late. I don't use "stay" much tho. I mostly use "wait". I probably need to add "stop" as well. "stop" would be really handy in herding - if she didn't get way too excited to obey (training challenge).

So in the Derrett / Garrett agility handling system (you need a consistent system - doesn't matter which one, just use the same one) - a "control position" is a sit, drop, stand (and the end of certain agility obstacles) ie the dog is not moving/running. And the dog is supposed to stay in that position until you give a "release command" (word of your choice) that gives them permission to run / move off - ideally in the direction you indicate.

[Jozlyn]

As far as sitting goes, the release for that is kind of "ok" or I might throw her toy for her to "fetch", no consistency there, so that will change from tomorrow too :D

I use OK as a release, but if I could go back I'd use something different! Often I have my dogs in a down-stay while I am listening to a trainer, then when they finish talking I say "OK" without thinking and my dog goes zooming off I would recommend usuing something you are less likely to say in everyday conversation :)

Good point, in the Susan Garret video I just watched, she says "break", I don't know if I'll use that though, maybe "done" as I need to use words more natural to me, same as at Obedience I don't say "come" for the recall, I say "here" as it comes more naturally to me to say that, also when I do say "come", I want her to come with me, "here" means I want her to come to me. Hope that makes sense.

[Weasels]

Maybe you could use a double whamy for a release, like you have to face them front on, or go back to their side or put your arm out in addition to ok.

I alway return to my dogs side before release or I issue another command like calling them to come. :)

To be honest it's just been easier for me to learn to give a thumbs up to the trainer instead :laugh:

It's most often a problem in herding, when I don't want the dog near me but at a specific spot in relation to the sheep. But adding a body cue could work tho, thanks! :)

--

I have a lot of different release cues like MRB - "go sniff", "that's all", "off you go" and "have a rest" are variations on "no more treats/play to be had here, go be a dog". I have variable speed cues too, so "go!" means run like hell, "walk"/"steady" mean release into a stalking-type walk (a different cue for each dog) but "OK" is the all purpose one :)

I have different recall-type cues too :) "come away" just means turn away from it, "come on buddy" or a clicking sound just means keep up/change direction with me, "come in" means run all the way to me and touch your nose to my hand and so forth!

Edited August 24, 2012 by Weasels

[Tazar]

Consistency is the key. Do the same thing at the end of each behaviour. Give her a command then release her, then reward her (as appropriate).

What if you don't have a treat (assuming I interpreted you correctly and you give the treat as the release) how are you going to let her know that she can move from the position without food?

Think command, command, command, release, reward (with praise, doesn't have to be food) i.e. sit, drop, stand, drop, free, good girl.

[Jozlyn]

Thank you EVERYONE, you are giving me loads of the sort of info' I REALLY need, might be time to start making up some lists and a file, lol, so I don't forget any of this.

[Weasels]

I probably need to add "stop" as well. "stop" would be really handy in herding - if she didn't get way too excited to obey (training challenge).

Definitely! "stop" is the cue I think I use most in herding :) Especially in getting the flanks right. When I'm training it "dry" (without stock) I use a ball because they get into that same 'crazy eyes' mode as when they are herding :D

[Tazar]

My god your dogs are brilliant, I am struggling to understand them all Well done

release cues like MRB - "go sniff", "that's all", "off you go" and "have a rest" are variations on "no more treats/play to be had here, go be a dog .............. you could just say free or ok or enough.

I have variable speed cues too, so "go!" means run like hell, "walk"/"steady" mean release into a stalking-type walk (a different cue for each dog) but "OK" is the all purpose one ............these sound like new commands (albeit complex :D )

But hey why mess with perfection ..............

[Weasels]

My god your dogs are brilliant, I am struggling to understand them all Well done

release cues like MRB - "go sniff", "that's all", "off you go" and "have a rest" are variations on "no more treats/play to be had here, go be a dog .............. you could just say free or ok or enough.

I have variable speed cues too, so "go!" means run like hell, "walk"/"steady" mean release into a stalking-type walk (a different cue for each dog) but "OK" is the all purpose one ............these sound like new commands (albeit complex :D )

But hey why mess with perfection ..............

they make more sense in context, they are often different cues for each dog and apply to different situations, e.g. "have a rest" means I'm not going to throw the ball again, but "that's all, off you go" means I'm not going to give any more treats so you don't need to keep doing obnoxious heelwork :laugh: The walk/steady commands are specifically for herding - releasing from a down-stay , but don't go charging off right up into a sheep's butt!

The "go!" generally means I am about to throw a ball, but I have found it to be a life-saver for getting my smaller dog away from a rude/agressive dog at the park

Edited August 24, 2012 by Weasels

[Tazar]

I bet the sheep a grateful for the last one nothing worse than a cold wet nose up your butt..

I guess in different situations it is not so confusing, you obviously do a lot of work with them

[Weasels]

nothing worse than a cold wet nose up your butt..

Agreed! :laugh:

They need a lot of work! Teenage kelpies in the suburbs with 2 humans who both work full time - I often try to make things more complicated just to keep them occupied!

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

"Steady" would be handy for the approaches to agility contact obstacles like dog walk, see saw, scramble - even the table (some are quite slippery).

SG trained her dogs to run like hell when they hear it - just to mess with Derrett's head when he visits. But I notice she uses it in some training contexts too. A lot of these things - it depends where the dog hears it and how you say it.

I'm fairly sure some words get double use too - like "out" for go to that jump away from me, and "out" for give me the toy (I use "give" or "thank you" for this one). I used to use "out" for leave the room or go outside, but have pretty much given up on that one. "mat" gets used more often, and going outside is always supervised anyway. "wait" while I open the door then "go" for you can quit waiting now and go outside.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Mrs Rusty Bucket

[Kavik]

As the others have said

Teach stand as a separate position first

Use a release cue to tell the dog when he can move from that position

Either release cue or a cue for another behaviour will give the dog permission to move

If using a marker, mark for action, reward for position

Good idea to make a list of your commands so you don't accidentally use one word to mean more than one thing

Apart from the Susan Garrett video, I noticed kikopup on YouTube also has a video on teaching sit, drop and stand. Uses a clicker but very different to SG as it uses luring.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Kavik

[Zug Zug]

Once your dog knows sit and drop and stand individually, it's a lot of fun putting them together. I would teach it like this:

STEP ONE: teach sit and stand and drop separately (you'll need other instructions for these bits if you don't have them yet)

STEP TWO: Start by having your dog sitting/dropping by your left hand side, take a small step forward with your left hand down at nose level with a treat. You're telling the dog "Yes!" as they stand up to approach the treat and as soon as they're firmly on their feet you're letting them eat the treat.

Do that a few times (maybe 10?) and they'll have the idea.

STEP THREE: Then you can move to the step forward with 'stand' command as you show them an empty hand that looks the same as before, but has no treat in it this time. As soon as the dog stands up to approach your hand, say YES!!! and the reward that follows really quickly

STEP FOUR: Then it is just gradually making that step smaller and smaller and the hand by your left hand side moving forward slightly becomes the signal (no step required - hand gets gradually flatter so you're no longer looking like there is a treat in it, but eventually just using a flat hand to give the signal, occasionally with a little treat wedged between your fingers as a nice surprise for your dog)

STEP FIVE: Then you try doing it from other angles e.g. from standing in front of the dog, from a few steps away, from across the room etc. to gradually increase the level of difficulty and challenge for your dog.

Then you get to have lots of fun. Sit, YES!!, stand, YES!!!, drop YES!!!, stand, YES!!! and so it goes on. Eventually it's sit-stand-sit-drop-stand-drop-sit-drop-sit-drop-stand - YES!!!!

Some people call this doggy push-ups. A fun thing to do in the lounge room when the weather is bad or when you just want to have fun together