moosmum Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Then you read it different to me. Corvus states Mcgreevy doesn't doesn't want to end pedigree dogs. He does not see why his interest in their health necessarily means he wants to end them. Nor do I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Hey Corvus, hows the research into the "timid" Sighthounds going ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkycat Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Hey Corvus, hows the research into the "timid" Sighthounds going ? It is a pity you couldn't leave it alone ! I responded to Corvus' survey with answers about my sighthound - he was timid and a scaredy cat!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 1345887542[/url]' post='5939766']Then you read it different to me. Corvus states Mcgreevy doesn't doesn't want to end pedigree dogs. He does not see why his interest in their health necessarily means he wants to end them. Nor do I. Except that wasn't the emphasis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosmum Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Hey Corvus, hows the research into the "timid" Sighthounds going ? When people resort bullying and ridicule to shut down what they don't want to hear discussion is pointless. Sorry Corvus,hope you get some good ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Hey Corvus, hows the research into the "timid" Sighthounds going ? When people resort bullying and ridicule to shut down what they don't want to hear discussion is pointless. Sorry Corvus,hope you get some good ideas. How is that question either bullying or ridicule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Hey Corvus, hows the research into the "timid" Sighthounds going ? When people resort bullying and ridicule to shut down what they don't want to hear discussion is pointless. Sorry Corvus,hope you get some good ideas. I'm very interested to know what came of that, given that I have four breeds of Sighthound. From memory the majority of owners who responded to Corvus in the first instance were those who had ex race dogs and I also produced a few of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Does the fact that some smaller breeds have an area centralis and others like herding breeds have a visual streak http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s953902.htm influence the way that some breeds of dogs react to others, i.e., smaller breed dogs watching other dogs - misinterpreted by larger dogs as a threat? But is this due to the retinal differences? There is a study I linked in the 'studies about dogs' pinned topic which looks at the morphological differences between a variety of breeds and how their behaviour is comparable to the developmental stages of behaviour in the ancestral wolf and showed a correlation between certain breeds and the development of certain behaviours. It was very interesting stuff and anecdotally I found it reminded me a lot of the communication breakdowns that have occurred with my husky and small breeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 1345882390[/url]' post='5939685']1345869724[/url]' post='5939551']The only thing McGreevy is interested in is the end of the pedigree dog I suspect you just said a lot more about yourself than Paul McGreevy. :laugh: I promise you, he's not interested in ending pedigree dogs. He's VERY interested in the long-term health of pedigree dogs. He doesn't think that necessarily means ending them. I hope you don't! He has the desire and the means to be a big help. Propagating hatred towards him in pedigree dog circles is probably at best unnecessary and at worst counter-productive. But hey, what would I know? I've only hung out with him talking dogs for the last 2 1/2 years. When someone who has hung out with McGreevy for 2 1/2 years qualifies a statement about his interest in the long term health of pedigree dogs by saying he doesn't "necessarily" think that means "ending" them, then I think Pav's concerns are well justified. Scientists don't talk in absolutes, there's nothing sinister about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosmum Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) Hey Corvus, hows the research into the "timid" Sighthounds going ? When people resort bullying and ridicule to shut down what they don't want to hear discussion is pointless. Sorry Corvus,hope you get some good ideas. How is that question either bullying or ridicule? Your right Sheridan,P.L. I may have jumped to my own conclusions there,but I'm still going to leave this alone.its not fair to this thread. Edited August 25, 2012 by moosmum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 1 - More research into vaccinations and long term effects and also term of efficacy. Ie it is said now the core diseases need to be vaccinated against every three years by some but others say not at all after the first yearly booster. 2 - Research into more DNA tests for diseases which are yet to have one :) - I know that is not very specific. 3 - Research into GDV 4 - Research into DCM 5 - And I like lots of other peoples suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corvus Posted August 25, 2012 Author Share Posted August 25, 2012 Hey Corvus, hows the research into the "timid" Sighthounds going ? When people resort bullying and ridicule to shut down what they don't want to hear discussion is pointless. Sorry Corvus,hope you get some good ideas. I'm very interested to know what came of that, given that I have four breeds of Sighthound. From memory the majority of owners who responded to Corvus in the first instance were those who had ex race dogs and I also produced a few of those. "From memory"? Crimony, I don't even know what the majority of sighthound owners who responded had. You guys decided they were all ex race Greyhounds. I have no idea. That data wasn't collected and I said that at the time. You know why it wasn't collected? Because there's no point. The numbers will be too low to see any meaningful pattern in them. If we got about ten times more respondents, then we'd be able to ask some really interesting questions about dog origin. In answer to your question, it's on the cusp of being submitted for publication and I recently presented the breed and breed group findings at an international conference. If you filled it out and left your contact details you'll hear about it when it gets published. If not, maybe someone who did will be kind enough to share the details with you. Really, my supervisor isn't trying to get rid of pedigree dogs. He likes pedigree dogs. Most dog scientists do. Many of them own pedigree dogs. They have delicious piles of data associated with them, and reduced gene pools with huge phenotypical variations, and conveniently specific genetic diseases. They are being eyed off as excellent models for all sorts of human diseases and conditions. I mention pedigrees to my stats advisor and his eyes light up. He's just sad it's so hard to get breed clubs to share their data. He and his colleagues know how to get all manner of fascinating things out of it. He doesn't care about the politics. He just wants to see what's hiding in the data waiting to be discovered. It's like a treasure hunt. Unfortunately, if nothing else scientists are obliged to publish their findings, and objectivity can be a liability if you think you've got something you might want to hide. It's short-sighted to not look for fear of what you'll find, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 People who obviously gave an agenda (pedigree dogs are superior and breeders should just be left alone to do what they want) having a go at someone for allegedly having an alternative agenda. I don't know why you even bother coming on DOL Corvus, some people just want to stick the knife in no matter what you say - but I'm glad you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 1345927983[/url]' post='5940100']People who obviously gave an agenda (pedigree dogs are superior and breeders should just be left alone to do what they want) having a go at someone for allegedly having an alternative agenda. I don't know why you even bother coming on DOL Corvus, some people just want to stick the knife in no matter what you say - but I'm glad you do. I'm basing my opinion of McGreevy on what he has said on Catalyst and elsewhere rather than his student's opinion of him. Please state your evidence of where Pav or I have said the above in this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoofnHoof Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 1345927983[/url]' post='5940100']People who obviously gave an agenda (pedigree dogs are superior and breeders should just be left alone to do what they want) having a go at someone for allegedly having an alternative agenda. I don't know why you even bother coming on DOL Corvus, some people just want to stick the knife in no matter what you say - but I'm glad you do. I'm basing my opinion of McGreevy on what he has said on Catalyst and elsewhere rather than his student's opinion of him. Please state your evidence of where Pav or I have said the above in this thread? Why not go straight to the source? Most researchers working through unis have a uni email/contact details if it's so concerning just go and ask him to clarify his position. The heckling that goes on in these threads would be amusing if it wasn't so sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 1345933515[/url]' post='5940135']1345929801[/url]' post='5940105']1345927983[/url]' post='5940100']People who obviously gave an agenda (pedigree dogs are superior and breeders should just be left alone to do what they want) having a go at someone for allegedly having an alternative agenda. I don't know why you even bother coming on DOL Corvus, some people just want to stick the knife in no matter what you say - but I'm glad you do. I'm basing my opinion of McGreevy on what he has said on Catalyst and elsewhere rather than his student's opinion of him. Please state your evidence of where Pav or I have said the above in this thread? Why not go straight to the source? Most researchers working through unis have a uni email/contact details if it's so concerning just go and ask him to clarify his position. The heckling that goes on in these threads would be amusing if it wasn't so sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podengo Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 What do I want from science? A job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 (edited) Why not go straight to the source? Most researchers working through unis have a uni email/contact details if it's so concerning just go and ask him to clarify his position. The heckling that goes on in these threads would be amusing if it wasn't so sad. One might ask why more scientists don't follow this advice and approach breed clubs direct. Frankly they'd probably get better data on it than asking for volunteers in places like here. Maybe they could leave the lab and see their test subjects up close and personal rather than relying on owners to interpret their dog's behaviour via surveys. There is deep suspicion amongst pedigree dog people about the agendas running behind a lot of scientific research. "Pedigree Dogs Exposed" has a lot to answer for. It seems to me that better communication on both sides would assist but frankly neither group has a particularly brilliant record at that. The sooner scientists grasp that they need to "sell" their research agendas to get the data they want and the sooner pedigree dog folk realise that not every scientist is aiming to make pedigree dogs extinct the better. Scientists no doubt think that they're bettering the world for dogs (and plenty are) but they need to convince others of that outside the ethics boards at their unis. If you want pedigree dog data scientitsts then YOU need to clarify your positions to the owners of that data. That won't happen on this forum. The "timid sighthounds" research STILL pisses me off. It pisses me off mostly because in my experience (admittedly not a statistical valid sample) it is simply not true. Temperament varies significantly among the sighthound breeds - some are downright protective if pressed. It also pisses me off because any knowledgeable sighthound person will tell you that socialisation is crucial for their breed. Corvus made some big conclusions on some very limited data and when pressed was a lot less candid about its limitations that she has been in this thread. Maybe she didn't think of the harm those conclusions could lead to for the breeds involved but breed fanciers sure as hell did. I was one of them. If the data was skewed by being drawn from one breed of sighthound and mostly from dogs NOT born and raised in family homes then that would have been useful to interpreting its outcome. If those factors were unknown they maybe it could have been mentioned as a possible interpretation. Published and picked up by the media its poor publicity for breeds that have a lot to offer as family pets - outcome pretty disastrous for the breeds involved. And all in the name of "science". So it comes down partly to "it ain't what you say it's the way that you say it". And that applies to both sides. Edited August 25, 2012 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 What do I want from science ? For so called "scientists" to have the balls to stand up and say when they've got it wrong but that's not going to happen. Let's just press on regardless and damn the consequences, too late the damage is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 http://sydney.edu.au/research/opportunities/opportunities/1599 Haredown, I suppose he could approach the breed clubs in an attempt to obtain information but then again no one in their right mind would want to work with him, given his agenda. It's just a shame that DogsNSW gave him our data without consulting the members., although I'm pretty sure they won't be doing that again any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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