For Those That Haven't Gone To Training Recently

[mantis]

I've never taken any of my dogs to training, always preferred doing it myself.

My daughter has started taking her JRT's recently & I was amazed when she told me they don't teach them the stay command, they just get them to sit & slowly move away, they said it confuses the dogs if you tell them to sit & then stay, I have never heard of this before.

[Kavik]

Mantis - the stay command is not necessary :) When you tell the dog to sit, you want the dog to sit until released.

[wuffles]

I've never taken any of my dogs to training, always preferred doing it myself.

My daughter has started taking her JRT's recently & I was amazed when she told me they don't teach them the stay command, they just get them to sit & slowly move away, they said it confuses the dogs if you tell them to sit & then stay, I have never heard of this before.

Some people teach that "sit" means "sit there until I tell you to do something else", hence, stay :)

Edit: I don't do this with my dog, as I found she started ignoring my next commands, even a release, thinking she was a smartypants and not breaking her stay :laugh: For some reason if I add a "stay" command she's ok. But it works very well for others.

Edited August 21, 2012 by wuffles

[mantis]

Well you learn something new everyday.

[megan_]

I've never taken any of my dogs to training, always preferred doing it myself.

My daughter has started taking her JRT's recently & I was amazed when she told me they don't teach them the stay command, they just get them to sit & slowly move away, they said it confuses the dogs if you tell them to sit & then stay, I have never heard of this before.

It is common when your dog has a release word. I have never said stay. I say "sit" and they must sit until I tell use my free word ("play" in my case). I don't like stay because it can teach your dog that, unless you say stay, they can get up when they please. Also, I find people say "stay, stay, stay".

[mgardner89]

What was the reason why you stopped training your dog?

Other interests got in the way. We are currently looking to get back to the class because the people are lovely. Plus I know Johnny misses his friends!

We haven’t stopped training – I have equipment at home, we still learn. We just haven’t been able to make it to the class.

Do you feel your dog is well trained enough?

I always think he can improve. But I compare him to some of my friends dogs and yes I would call him trained “enough”.

Did you not get results from previous training attempts?

We joined an obedience club and no joy. He responded much better in agility and flyball. Although his recall in class can be very frustrating – he has improved.

Is training too far away/ too often/ too expensive? Are you simply too busy? Did you find training boring?

Too busy. Sometimes the 30 min drive feels too far as well.

What would prompt you to start training again or would you not start training again regardless?

We are going to get back into it soon. I am promising myself by the end of next month. I am just a chronic over committer and try to do way too much!

[Wobbly]

A very timely thread for me to respond to. I've just arranged to attend training, after having been only once in the 4 or so years I've had my dog.

What was the reason why you stopped training your dog?

There were a few reasons, primarily it was too far away. 1 and a half hours drive in Traffic :/ Also my dog was SO naughty. She was an adolescent, and I hadn't had her long when we went to that class. She was insanely out of control around other dogs, not aggressive, just really, really, really, excitable, I felt it wasn't really fair on anyone else in the class, she got all the attention simply because she was so nutty. The distance and my almost complete lack of control around so many other excitable dogs made it incredibly difficult. I figured I really needed to do some work with her on my own to get her less over-stimulated around other dogs before I could go back to that environment.

Do you feel your dog is well trained enough?

She is good for my lifestyle. Sits, stays, comes when she's called. She walks on a loose leash, but doesn't really "heel" in the formal sense. She is very food driven, so she knows a lot of pretty silly (but cool) tricks, and she loves doing them. She's good off leash without other dogs around, and luckily we have a great place to exercise where there's no other dogs. She did show signs of emerging dog aggression when I first got her, but we went to a behaviourist (this was over 4 years ago) and got excellent advice - to keep her calm and on leash around other dogs, make her sit if she's getting over excited etc, and so we've stuck by that and she hasn't shown a suggestion of dog aggression since. She is fine off leash in a calm, controlled environment with dogs who we know well, but I wouldn't trust her in an excited, play environment with other dogs, even those we know well. I would suspect that being over-stimulated by other excitable dogs would trigger the dog aggression that seemed to be developing when she was younger. She is a classic "Pit Bull Type" dog, and I think the potential she showed for dog aggression can't be ignored, even after so many years without incident, so I don't let her play with other dogs. On leash she approaches other dogs in a friendly way - they have a nose sniff and a waggle and then I move her on, I'm happy with that. She's generally pretty good, there's always room for improvement though.

Did you not get results from previous training attempts? Are you simply too busy? Did you find training boring? Is training too far away/ too often/ too expensive?

We gave up after one lesson! Otherwise I'm sure we would have gotten results. It was too far, she was to hyper excited as a newly acquired adolescent and I hadn't learnt to control her sufficiently around other dogs at the time - it certainly wasn't boring, more like too exciting. I'm never too busy or too poor to meet my dog's needs.

What would prompt you to start training again or would you not start training again regardless?

I am! I finally found one close by, and of course she is good with other dogs now, so she won't be hogging all the trainers attention and making me wish the ground would open up and swallow us. XD Next week I go to a session without Jarrah, to get a feel for the class and see what I have to practice to fit in, that is the training school's policy. The week after that I bring her in too. I don't really have any huge expectations for it. There are a few reasons I'm doing it - she hurt her shoulder a while back, so I am hoping this will be good exercise for her brain since our physical exercise is neccessarily somewhat reduced now. I hope it will be a good environment for her to socialise with other on leash dogs, it's always good to reinforce that. My Sister In law recently got a GSD pup who she is taking to puppy school, apparently at this puppy school they bring in cats, snakes, and all manner of things a puppy might need to learn how to deal with appropriately, it sounded very interesting and so I thought perhaps a training school might have some great stuff like that we've been missing out on. Hopefully we're not too far behind in terms of all the stuff she should know, but she's a quick learner, especially if there's food involved, so it should be OK. I had a long talk with the trainer on the phone the other day, and I really liked the sound of her set up.

Edited a lot coz I keep thinking of new stuff to add XD

Edited August 21, 2012 by Wobbly

[Melbomb]

What was the reason why you stopped training your dog?

I started volunteering at the club and so stopped taking my dog because he was in classes that started an hour and a half after i had to be there and i didn't want to leave him in the car all that time. I should add thought that he was allowed to be out with me but i wasn't comfortable with that.

Do you feel your dog is well trained enough?

He is trained enough (and extremely easy to live with) for my own standards! :D

Did you not get results from previous training attempts?

We had fantastic result's from previous training after we found the right club for us.

Is training too far away/ too often/ too expensive?

Yes for the particular training club i would like to go to it is a little too far. It wasn't an issue in the past but now that Bomber is at a level where i think he doesn't need training and we simply do it because he likes it, i feel it is a little too far.

Are you simply too busy?

No! Just lazy! :laugh:

Did you find training boring?

Not at all.

What would prompt you to start training again or would you not start training again regardless?

I would love to start training again but it comes down to time and cost's at the moment.

[kayla1]

Reasons for no longer attending formal classes:

- repetitive, boring

- class sizes too large

- off lead dogs

- different instructor each week, and I'm sure one was only about 15 yrs old!

- I had to work away from the group (reactive dog) and could not hear the instructor, and some weeks lost my group (too many groups and not segregated)

- instructors spending extensive periods of time with certain dogs/handlers and ignoring others

- for many weeks I tried unsuccessfully to get information on flyball - seemed nobody could help (perhaps I don't have the preferred breed of dog?)

I would like to go back, but only where there are smaller class sizes, knowledgeable instructors etc.

[kayla1]

- this is going to sound really bad, but I do get frustrated when I see a group of instructors and their dogs and the only breeds that I can see are border collies, labs, goldies and aussies... I know that these dogs aren't necessarily easier to train, but it would give me some hope if I occasionally saw a instructor with a "non-typical", challenging or independent breed.... it does make me ask myself if I'm wasting my time trying to achieve anything with my "mutt" (sighthound mix), as it might just be too hard.

I just wanted to reply to this :) I found (and still do at times) this a bit annoying as well, not because they are common trialling breeds but because I think you have to teach a variety of dogs before you can really be a great trainer. In saying that, after a few sessions of instructing, you should get some experience with different breeds and know enough to at least have suggestions for those which may be more difficult to train.

I instruct at my local club, and I always introduce myself to have both my Aussie (who is often crated off to the side of class) and my rescue mutt (who is asleep on his comfy bed at home), and point out that they are very different dogs to train so I do empathise with everyone, no matter what their training issue may be. Last session I taught was beginners, and in the last week (games week) I brought along my mutt and introduced him to everyone. I got a lot of positive feedback, especially from people with less traditional breeds, so I will make sure I do that again next time :)

We have so many different breeds at our club, many owned by instructors. We have a jack russell x pug who has just entered her first obedience trial, so everyone is encouraged, no matter what their breed!

I found that certain breeds, border collies in particular, seemed to get 'special treatment' in class. The instructors were drawn to them like a magnet and would frequently spend a considerable amount of class time giving them one on one training, to the detriment of the rest of the class. One of the reasons why I left (ETA a local club).

Edited August 21, 2012 by kayla1

[Red Fox]

What was the reason why you stopped training your dog?

I stopped attending the local obedience club with my eldest dog around 3 and a half years ago when he was approx 6 months old. At the time we were not getting results, my dog was not engaged and nothing was being done to address the problem.

Do you feel your dog is well trained enough?

As a pet? Yes. An an obedience prospect he could use more work.

Did you not get results from previous training attempts?

No, see above.

Is training too far away/ too often/ too expensive? Are you simply too busy?

No.

Did you find training boring?

Local club training? Incredibly!

What would prompt you to start training again or would you not start training again regardless?

I haven't stopped training, but I would not return to that particular club for the following reasons;

Dogs are required to have a C5 vaccination (I use C3 and titer)

The classes are too long (one hour) and poorly structured (dogs are not given enough space, owners are not taught how to correctly engage their dog).

The instructors are not equipped to deal with even minor behavioural problems and use too many 'quick fix' solutions IMO - ie dogs pulls? Use a halti / dog barks at kids? Use a husher.

'Purely positive' training. Sorry, but it IS possible to use a clicker AND a prong collar...

ETA, I should add that I am a member of a very good, supportive and well rounded sportdog club club where I train my young Mali. Unfortunately it's a 3 hour drive each way and if I want to track we need to be there at 7am! Hence we only attend club training every 6 weeks or so and do the majority of our training alone. If I lived closer I would attend training there twice per week.

Edited August 21, 2012 by SecretKei

[spyda62]

I work with dogs, I live with dogs. Sometimes I just get plain fed up with doing "dog stuff". Then I stop going to training. When I feel motivated again I start taking them back to training.

I actually love taking my dogs to training and get good results from them. The club I go to is great and think that is what makes all the difference. Have tried several different clubs in the past. Some I have just walked away from in disgust. (Still teaching how to do Alpha rolls, heavy corrections on chains all at an entry level)

Are my dogs well enough trained? Probably not to a lot of other peoples standards, but for me they are.

[raineth]

What was the reason why you stopped training your dog?

Both the times of the classes and the regulations are not compatible for me and my dogs.

The club started a monday morning class and so I went because at least the time was compatible. Then they stopped it on a monday morning. But also I have two giant dogs that are rescues and both find the environment of training stressful/exciting, yet all I am allowed to use it either a martingale or a head-collar. One of my dogs especially finds a head-collar extremely unpleasant, and that is even with training her to it slowly.

Do you feel your dog is well trained enough? My dogs training could always be improved. And I would actually really like to go to a training class.

Did you not get results from previous training attempts? No I don't think that when I went to training much was achieved.

Is training too far away/ too often/ too expensive? Are you simply too busy? Did you find training boring?

Yes it is too far away (takes me longer to get their and back than the time the class goes over).

It is not too often or too expensive.

I am too busy to go to their wednesday night training.

There was a lot of heelwork and that is a bit boring.

What would prompt you to start training again or would you not start training again regardless?

I would go to training again if I was allowed to use a check chain or a volhard collar and if it was on at a time I could get there.

also to add that where I am there are three options for training.

One is solely rewards only.

the other two are absolutely awful, based on continuously punishing your dog and include very severe corrections with check chains, as well as screaming, yelling and even kicking your dog.

Edited August 21, 2012 by raineth

[Vickie]

I'd love to hear from those who have NOT taken their dog to training (group, private- some kind of organised training) in the last 3 months.

I haven't been to formal agility training for a number of years. I train sheep work and take instruction a couple of times a week.

What was the reason why you stopped training your dog?

I have never stopped training, I just don't take classes, although I try to do a seminar every 12 months or so. I prefer to train at home as I have the room, the equipment and a reasonable amount of knowledge & experience. I can't think of anywhere to train my dogs that will make it easy for me to train with the level of detail and focus I want.

Do you feel your dog is well trained enough? Did you not get results from previous training attempts? Is training too far away/ too often/ too expensive? Are you simply too busy? Did you find training boring?

I feel my dogs are pretty well trained and am happy with the results we are getting. There is always heaps more to improve on & learn, but I feel I have good access to this information and the motivation to progress. I would not be concerned with distance or expense for the right training opportunities. I have found previous training classes frustrating as the focus is often on whether you can complete a course, not how you complete the course.

What would prompt you to start training again or would you not start training again regardless?

At some point I will need to take my pups somewhere to expose them to different environments, equipment etc, but they will be trained first. I haven't decided where yet, but it will probably be a club.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Vickie

[Luke W]

This isn't really answering the question but I'd like to see some classes that focus less on what seems to be an introduction to formal obedience trialling and more on 'manners'.

Things like stays, real loose lead walking, recalls, food refusal, stopping at curbs, leave it, spit it out, that sort of stuff. In real life scenarios, not the unreal environment of a big open expanse at an obedience club. A formal recall on an empty oval doesn't necessarily translate to a recall from a smelly dead possum while on a casual walk in an off-lead park.

Perhaps I'm just asking for some solid instruction on 'proofing', with an opportunity to practice under the guidance of an instructor. To many classes are spent in the sterile environment of a local oval.

The closest I've seen to this sort of instruction was a club in the southern suburbs of Melbourne. Almost entirely Delta trainers.

[megan_]

Where is this club Luke?

[Luke W]

Where is this club Luke?

http://www.southsidedogschool.com/

I haven't been there for a few years. We used to actually take the dogs for a walk off the grounds to proof road crossings and stuff!

[JulesP]

Things like stays, real loose lead walking, recalls, food refusal, stopping at curbs, leave it, spit it out, that sort of stuff. In real life scenarios, not the unreal environment of a big open expanse at an obedience club. A formal recall on an empty oval doesn't necessarily translate to a recall from a smelly dead possum while on a casual walk in an off-lead park.

Didn't you do the puppy class at Croydon? We do all that stuff in that class. A couple of the lessons are walking around the streets. We do stopping at curbs out on the road. Recalls up at the local school. Ok I haven't taken a real dead possum for the leave it class but I tell them that is why we are teaching it!

[Wobbly]

O yes, I missed a few points that are probably salient - when I spoke to the lady who runs the dog training classes on the phone, I was pretty happy with the sound of her operation for a few reasons, these being:

I mentioned to her that I use a check collar. She said that her preference was not to use these in class, but it is most important I feel comfortable and fully in control in the class, and so if I always use a check chain, then I should use it for the first lesson at least. I really liked this response, her preference for no check collar suggests a primarily positive approach, but her willingness to allow me to use one in her class shows that she is flexible toward different owners' & dogs' needs and not averse to an appropriate correction when it is required. She was encouraging about us transitioning to a flat collar or another alternative to a check chain, and due to the collaborative approach our conversation suggested she seems to take, I'm very interested to see how we go with that. This was really a clincher part of the conversation for me, the subtext contained all the information I need to see that I can work well with this lady.

It's a private training club, spaces are limited and must be prearranged, the classes won't be too big. There will be no volunteers, or chopping and changing of trainers. It is a professional business and run as such.

Payment is made per class, the payment structure seems very sensible to me. You pre pay for a given number of classes, not a given period of time, so you don't end up paying for missed classes.

Another part of our conversation that appealed to me is her attitude toward my dog's breed. I have had some bad experiences, even from so called "dog lovers", we have been turned away from more than one boarding kennel on account of breed. I told her all indications are that Jarrah is a Pit Bull (although ofc you never really know with a dog from the pound). She told me she had quite a few Pit Bulls through the class in the past and they are good dogs who do very well at training. She also suggested that perhaps I shouldn't go mentioning the Pit Bull word in case of negative reactions, and of course she is right. We discussed breed ambassador-ship and the fact that I don't really have a choice in this, all eyes are upon us, there's nothing I can do about that, she just HAS to be better than most dogs. It's great to see indications that she is familiar with the discrimination we so often face.

All in all the entire conversation was great, and I really appreciated her taking the time to have an extended phone conversation with me, she obviously has a lot of time for her clients, even outside of paid classes. I am really looking forward to the classes.

A point or two about our 1 and only previous training club experience I should add:

The lady who took my class was lovely, and obviously an experienced and capable dog lady, but she was trying to teach me the alpha roll approach, and no doubt that's great for many overly excitable dogs. But not Jarrah. Jarrah thought the alpha roll was the start of quite possibly the best game EVER. It made her even more excited and keen for as much Wrestle Mania as she could possibly get. She loved it, so needless to say it wasn't an effective aversive for us, more like a reward. :laugh:

It was a local club and very big. There were far too many other excited dogs around for where we were at, at that time. So many other dogs at close quarters excited her to the point of mania back then. It really wasn't an appropriate environment for us then, although it would probably be fine now.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Wobbly

[dee lee]

This isn't really answering the question but I'd like to see some classes that focus less on what seems to be an introduction to formal obedience trialling and more on 'manners'.

Things like stays, real loose lead walking, recalls, food refusal, stopping at curbs, leave it, spit it out, that sort of stuff. In real life scenarios, not the unreal environment of a big open expanse at an obedience club. A formal recall on an empty oval doesn't necessarily translate to a recall from a smelly dead possum while on a casual walk in an off-lead park.

I completely agree, Luke.

I would love there to be classes for people who don't want to compete in obedience. Who want to have a dog that is well behaved, but don't care about being able to do a "correct" left hand heel with a close turn etc.

Somewhere that acknowledges pet owners rather than competitors & teaches appropriate skills for dogs to be good social citizens.

I'd go. :D

And I'm pretty sure that the large amount of dog owners who aren't "crazy dog people" (like we all are :laugh: ), would be more likely to go too. Which would be a hugely positive thing.

Oh and one more complaint- 45 minutes of constant training was way too long for my dog. And 90% of the other dogs in the classes I did. Especially in the middle of summer.