SwaY Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I couldn't agree more, it shows a direct lack of empathy to animals to cull them because the colour isn't acceptable in the show ring, what's more is that the puppies are culled and then the breeder goes on and breeds more litters and in turn culls more pups, it's a never ending vicious cycle, surely anybody with a heart would not put themselves in that position? It has nothing to do with the show ring - up until 4 years ago from memory breeders could breed from them and not show them. So for want of a better word they still had a "purpose" when it came to breeding/show folk. The merle gene is often associated with congenital deafness, and not just in Great Danes. Which is better to cull at birth or wait until 6-8 weeks when a Dalmatian is hearing tested and cull then as it is deaf?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Then do you factor in.. Heating costs for heat lamp/heat mat Health testing Supplementing puppies if they need to be bottle fed Advertising cost Cesar Antibiotics if the bitch get mastitis Not to mention endless washing and washing powder Increased food and supplements for the bitch On a side note baby Giant breeds eat more then the adult versions. But most of these are required if you even only have 1 puppy? Only some of them were culled, not the whole litter. Yes, but often the quantity is larger if you have a larger litter. Bottle feeding one puppy is not the same as bottle feeding 6+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I rememeber speaking to a Weimaraner breeder in Germany who said dogs that were not gundog quality would be culled instead of being sold into pet homes not too long ago. I suppose the situation here is different since the temperament was the issue there, not the colour and I also think back then there may not have been any spay/neuter options readily available, so even if sold to a pet home, there was no way to ensure the faulty dog did not go on to reproduce either faulty purebreds or mixed breeds with possibly dangerous tendencies (mixing some breeds with conflicting temperaments is just asking for trouble as most of you already know). slightly different in Germany with Weims. they are still very strict about who they sell puppies to. The breed wardens of the club chooses the mating, and homes of the pups not the breeder, and you must have a gun licence and be a hunter and wiling to work your dog just to be eligible to own one. Yes I was born and grew up in Germany and have spoken with several German breeders but things are now a little different and it is possible to have pet Weims and culling rather than selling as pets is not prevalent anymore as far as I know :) I do wish I'd gotten my licence before I left home now and am not allowed one here since I am not a citizen. Finding help training gundogs is much easier in Germany as well but this is all OT :p lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Doesn't sit well with me at all. People culling puppies they don't have homes for just so they can keep one for themself? Especially when breeding puppies that they know may have to be culled, that doesn't sound ethical to me, at least in my definition of the word. Does the end really justify the means? So you would be happy to see the less popular pet breeds become extinct? To preserve the breed someone has to breed enough dogs to carry one a viable gene pool. With breeds that have very large litters of say 12 or more, what are you going to do with the puppies if no one will buy them as pets? In nature large numbers like that would never survive anyway. Culling puppies at birth is much more ethical than raising more puppies than you can find good homes for. Personally, I couldn't do it and I have a popular breed so it isn't an issue but I would never condemn those that love their chosen breed and feel they have no other option with the best interest of the future of that breed in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Danes aren't in danger of becoming extinct are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Doesn't sit well with me at all. People culling puppies they don't have homes for just so they can keep one for themself? Especially when breeding puppies that they know may have to be culled, that doesn't sound ethical to me, at least in my definition of the word. Does the end really justify the means? So you would be happy to see the less popular pet breeds become extinct? To preserve the breed someone has to breed enough dogs to carry one a viable gene pool. With breeds that have very large litters of say 12 or more, what are you going to do with the puppies if no one will buy them as pets? In nature large numbers like that would never survive anyway. Culling puppies at birth is much more ethical than raising more puppies than you can find good homes for. Personally, I couldn't do it and I have a popular breed so it isn't an issue but I would never condemn those that love their chosen breed and feel they have no other option with the best interest of the future of that breed in mind. Well, if the only way to keep a breed going is to breed with the intention of culling multiple puppies in the process, then yes I'm afraid I would prefer to see them become extinct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Danes aren't in danger of becoming extinct are they? No, but the OP was talking about culling merle's not the other colours in a litter. The numbers are declining thou. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiesha09 Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I just don't understand how this is ethical at all. The puppies are being culled before they even know if there are suitable homes out there for them. There may be a perfect pet home for one of these puppies but the breeder hasn't even tried to find them a home. They've just automatically culled them because they are the wrong colour and they assume people won't pay more that $1000 for a pet (which is rubbish). I just think as a breeder if you aren't willing to keep the puppies if you can't find homes for them then you shouldn't be breeding at all. The other thing I wonder about is that the blue merle colouring seem like they are so popular with many other breeds, surely there would be people that would want a blue merle dane??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Doesn't sit well with me at all. People culling puppies they don't have homes for just so they can keep one for themself? Especially when breeding puppies that they know may have to be culled, that doesn't sound ethical to me, at least in my definition of the word. Does the end really justify the means? So you would be happy to see the less popular pet breeds become extinct? To preserve the breed someone has to breed enough dogs to carry one a viable gene pool. With breeds that have very large litters of say 12 or more, what are you going to do with the puppies if no one will buy them as pets? In nature large numbers like that would never survive anyway. Culling puppies at birth is much more ethical than raising more puppies than you can find good homes for. Personally, I couldn't do it and I have a popular breed so it isn't an issue but I would never condemn those that love their chosen breed and feel they have no other option with the best interest of the future of that breed in mind. :clap: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Danes aren't in danger of becoming extinct are they? No, but the OP was talking about culling merle's not the other colours in a litter. The numbers are declining thou. Actually this whole thread is confusing. While I don't object to breeders culling puppies that are unlikely to sell, what I don't understand is why you would breed with a merle then cull the merle offspring. Merle is dominant so one parent has to be merle for any of the puppies to be that colour. Surely in this case, simply not breeding from merles at all would solve the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Danes aren't in danger of becoming extinct are they? No, but the OP was talking about culling merle's not the other colours in a litter. The numbers are declining thou. Actually this whole thread is confusing. While I don't object to breeders culling puppies that are unlikely to sell, what I don't understand is why you would breed with a merle then cull the merle offspring. Merle is dominant so one parent has to be merle for any of the puppies to be that colour. Surely in this case, simply not breeding from merles at all would solve the problem. In Australia we can no longer breed from Merles, it has been like this for maybe 4 years now. All Harlequin puppies will have a patch of merle on them somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Danes aren't in danger of becoming extinct are they? No, but the OP was talking about culling merle's not the other colours in a litter. The numbers are declining thou. Actually this whole thread is confusing. While I don't object to breeders culling puppies that are unlikely to sell, what I don't understand is why you would breed with a merle then cull the merle offspring. Merle is dominant so one parent has to be merle for any of the puppies to be that colour. Surely in this case, simply not breeding from merles at all would solve the problem. In Australia we can no longer breed from Merles, it has been like this for maybe 4 years now. All Harlequin puppies will have a patch of merle on them somewhere. But Harlequins are geneticlly merle with modifiers, so breeding them has to produce some merles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Can I just point out the "used to" bit. Many Breeders decades ago used to cull Merles for a variety of reasons - it's not common pratice today and I don't know anyone who does it so it's a bit of a mute point. Merles are from Harlequin breeding which is overbred becasue you can ask $2,500-$3,500 for Harlequin and many of those scummy breeders wouldn't want to miss out on the $1,000 - $1,500 the Merles bring. The higher end Harle Breeders I know wouldn't cull for no goof reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Danes aren't in danger of becoming extinct are they? No, but the OP was talking about culling merle's not the other colours in a litter. The numbers are declining thou. Actually this whole thread is confusing. While I don't object to breeders culling puppies that are unlikely to sell, what I don't understand is why you would breed with a merle then cull the merle offspring. Merle is dominant so one parent has to be merle for any of the puppies to be that colour. Surely in this case, simply not breeding from merles at all would solve the problem. In Australia we can no longer breed from Merles, it has been like this for maybe 4 years now. All Harlequin puppies will have a patch of merle on them somewhere. But Harlequins are geneticlly merle with modifiers, so breeding them has to produce some merles. Correct, so Harl x Harl is still going to produce some merle puppies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 But Harlequins are geneticlly merle with modifiers, so breeding them has to produce some merles. Merles are a very normal result of Harlequin Breeding programs, I don't know of any Harle breeders that haven't had Merles in their litters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Danes aren't in danger of becoming extinct are they? No, but the OP was talking about culling merle's not the other colours in a litter. The numbers are declining thou. Actually this whole thread is confusing. While I don't object to breeders culling puppies that are unlikely to sell, what I don't understand is why you would breed with a merle then cull the merle offspring. Merle is dominant so one parent has to be merle for any of the puppies to be that colour. Surely in this case, simply not breeding from merles at all would solve the problem. A Merle breeder is simply a vessel in which to produce puppies. Anyway - Breeder don't cull Merles today (not that I know of) so it's a mute point. I'm not sure you understand the colour genetics entirely with coloured genetics - it's a never ending story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Danes aren't in danger of becoming extinct are they? No, but the OP was talking about culling merle's not the other colours in a litter. The numbers are declining thou. Actually this whole thread is confusing. While I don't object to breeders culling puppies that are unlikely to sell, what I don't understand is why you would breed with a merle then cull the merle offspring. Merle is dominant so one parent has to be merle for any of the puppies to be that colour. Surely in this case, simply not breeding from merles at all would solve the problem. In Australia we can no longer breed from Merles, it has been like this for maybe 4 years now. All Harlequin puppies will have a patch of merle on them somewhere. But Harlequins are geneticlly merle with modifiers, so breeding them has to produce some merles. Correct, so Harl x Harl is still going to produce some merle puppies. But you only need one merle gene to get a merle. Breeding Harl x Harl would result in some double merles with all the associated problems so hopefully that is not allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 But you only need one merle gene to get a merle. Breeding Harl x Harl would result in some double merles with all the associated problems so hopefully that is not allowed. It is allowed. Maybe that is what the OP meant, the breeder back then bred Harl x Harl and culled the Merles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwaY Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Anyway - Breeder don't cull Merles today (not that I know of) so it's a mute point. I don't know of any who do either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebelsquest Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I just don't understand how this is ethical at all. The puppies are being culled before they even know if there are suitable homes out there for them. There may be a perfect pet home for one of these puppies but the breeder hasn't even tried to find them a home. They've just automatically culled them because they are the wrong colour and they assume people won't pay more that $1000 for a pet (which is rubbish). I just think as a breeder if you aren't willing to keep the puppies if you can't find homes for them then you shouldn't be breeding at all. The other thing I wonder about is that the blue merle colouring seem like they are so popular with many other breeds, surely there would be people that would want a blue merle dane??? So breeders should keep 12+ puppies if they can't find homes for any of them? You'd then have to question if the dogs are getting the individual attention they deserve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now