Police Shoot Dog Defending Unconscious Owner

[goldrag]

My friend was hit by a car whilst walking her Alaskan malamute. Her dog wouldn't let the paramedics near her and the fire brigade was called in with their special poles to restrain the dog safely.

There is always another way and sometimes the quick and easy option gets used more often than not.

[Sabbath]

The reports states it was a seizure, not overdose. The opinion on the behaviour of this breed is given by a bystander, not a breed expert. The police are obviously and understandably untrained for these events. Police can't even deal with mentally ill humans.

I don't understand where these silly new era ideas that a dog should never bite come from. For a long time the ability of a dog to defend it's owner was a sort after characteristic. They are dogs, not people.

Every normal thinking person wants a well socialised and well behaved dog. When the owner is in a similar situation to the event that took place can you really expect every dog to just play nice?

[Salukifan]

My friend was hit by a car whilst walking her Alaskan malamute. Her dog wouldn't let the paramedics near her and the fire brigade was called in with their special poles to restrain the dog safely.

There is always another way and sometimes the quick and easy option gets used more often than not.

If your friend had died while waiting for those poles, would that have been an acceptable outcome? Quick and easy sometimes saves lives and time delays aren't always acceptable.

Sabbath

Every normal thinking person wants a well socialised and well behaved dog. When the owner is in a similar situation to the event that took place can you really expect every dog to just play nice?

I dont' think anyone expects it. But when a dog doesn't 'play nice' what then?

Look I'm not advocating a 'shoot on sight' approach to these incidents but that dog had already put teeth on a member of the public and wasn't simply staying by his owner's side. He rushed a cop armed and trained to use one method of defence against a serious threat to his safety - and the cop used it. The outcome was distressing and hardly ideal but it did work. "Threat" negated.

Police actions are continually judged in 20/20 hindsight by folk who've never had to deal with such situations and usually there will be a raft of armchair experts telling them what they should have done or how it can be done better. It's not that easy when you're in the moment, you've got a person in god knows what medical condition because you can't get near them and an animal that is presenting a clear danger to passersby and yourself. You do what you know. And public condemnation isn't a fraction of the angst they put themselves through as to how it might have gone differently.

I'd not argue for a moment that cops are infallible. But here's a question. What else could those cops have done right there and then with what they had on them? You can hear them struggling to get people out of the area and the dog is rushing around and then rushes them. What do you do?? Wait to see if it actually engages and inflicts a career ending injury?

Cops are continually expected to deal with the failures of society to deal with issues. Mental health crises, drunkenness, over doses, family violence and yes, animal aggression. It sobers me to hear young cops calmly tell me they're waiting for the results of the latest AIDS test on another human bite that they got. Spit, vomit, blood - all in a days work for community police. Lets not add dog bites to that list and lets not forget that rabies is one possible outcome of such situations in the USA.

Edited August 17, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[dogbesotted]

Well from the article it sounds like that guy passes out a lot, possibly from "overdoses" or whatever so maybe the dog felt it had a lot of reason to be so "overprotective"... I believe my dog would defend me as well if I was down and not moving, even if she knows the people who may be approaching?

I don't know if you can tell aggression from protectiveness in this situation and even a well socialized dog may become (overly) protective in these circumstances.

I do believe further training may enable police officers to handle these kind of situations a little better.

In saying that though, if the officer feared being attacked/injured himself, I see him defending hmself as acceptable. Maybe not necessarily with the gun to begin with but in that kind of ituation you may not get a second chance...

If the owner really does pass out from overdoses regularly then maybe he should either work on his ssues or not take his dog into public places after shooting up so that he may be helped without risking anyone else's health and safety...

pardon me but seizures are not necessarily from overdoses.. have you not heard of epilepy??? or does the fact that the person had a pitbull cause you to assume it was an overdose??

glad the dog survived it was a difficult situation for all concerned.

H

[BlackJaq]

pardon me but seizures are not necessarily from overdoses.. have you not heard of epilepy??? or does the fact that the person had a pitbull cause you to assume it was an overdose??

glad the dog survived it was a difficult situation for all concerned.

H

I don't know if you've actually read the article but it was mentioned that usually, when he passes out, people do not go near him and the word "overdose" was used to explain what might be causing him to "seizure" and pass out..... Maybe read it again and then see if you can come up with the reason why I thought it was drugs and not epilepsy...

[frufru]

Brandon Verna, a friend of Mr Stankiewicz, told The Local East Village the dog had a history of being overprotective.

"Most of us figured out that when he’s passed out, whether he’s overdosing or not, leave him alone," Mr Verna said.

"If he’s going to die, call an ambulance and have them deal with it because no one wants to get bitten."

[sandgrubber]

pardon me but seizures are not necessarily from overdoses.. have you not heard of epilepy??? or does the fact that the person had a pitbull cause you to assume it was an overdose??

glad the dog survived it was a difficult situation for all concerned.

It's amazing that the dog wasn't killed. Maybe the police deserve credit for shooting to disable rather than to kill?

Drugs are abundant in the East Village, street life is 'colorful', and it's a place where squatters are being forced out by gentrification. A guy out cold on the concrete with backpack spilling could be epileptic, but that's not the first thought that comes to mind . . . especially as the guy is motionless in the video clip. Having a guard dog stand over you when you seize is not a conventional, or recommended, way to deal with epilepsy.

[melzawelza]

Haredown, as I said before, I haven't seen anyone in this thread condemn the cop for his actions or say he had any other options.

We are simply discussing if there is a way situations like this can be dealt with in the future that results in a better outcome. Maybe the answer to that is no, but it's worth discussing surely?

[dogbesotted]

pardon me but seizures are not necessarily from overdoses.. have you not heard of epilepy??? or does the fact that the person had a pitbull cause you to assume it was an overdose??

glad the dog survived it was a difficult situation for all concerned.

H

I don't know if you've actually read the article but it was mentioned that usually, when he passes out, people do not go near him and the word "overdose" was used to explain what might be causing him to "seizure" and pass out..... Maybe read it again and then see if you can come up with the reason why I thought it was drugs and not epilepsy...

point taken!

h

[Salukifan]

pardon me but seizures are not necessarily from overdoses.. have you not heard of epilepy??? or does the fact that the person had a pitbull cause you to assume it was an overdose??

glad the dog survived it was a difficult situation for all concerned.

It's amazing that the dog wasn't killed. Maybe the police deserve credit for shooting to disable rather than to kill?

Drugs are abundant in the East Village, street life is 'colorful', and it's a place where squatters are being forced out by gentrification. A guy out cold on the concrete with backpack spilling could be epileptic, but that's not the first thought that comes to mind . . . especially as the guy is motionless in the video clip. Having a guard dog stand over you when you seize is not a conventional, or recommended, way to deal with epilepsy.

Trust me, he'd have been aiming for the biggest spot on the dog and aiming to drop it like a stone. If the dog is still alive, its because it was smaller, lower and faster moving than the targets cops train on. They train on human sized targets.

Reminds me of all the experts who ask why cops can't shoot guns, swords and other weapons out of people's hands or shoot to slow folk down. Because they're not movie cops is why. They aim for the chest each and every time. Someone with a peripheral wound can still kill you.

[Pockets]

I know of a similar incident that happened in my neighborhood..

An elderly man who owned 2 pitbulls, his son also lived at the property. I delivered dog food to them on a number of occassions and the dogs were sweet and loving dogs, always very social...

One day the son was out and the elderly man had a fall in his front yard, the neighbor went to help but the two pitbulls were protecting their elderly owner and the neighbor was actually bittern

The police and emergency services were called as was the ranger and the dogs were removed by the council using poles etc....

The elderly man was ok...

But both dogs ended up being declared "Dangerous Dogs" by the council and had to comply with all the requirements of owning Declared Dangerous Dogs ....very sad considering they were on their own property and just protecting their frail and injured owner....but a better outcome than the above scenario

I do not see the officer had any real choice, the dog may have just been rushing and may not have been in to cause harm to the officer...but he was not to know...a split second decision...a terrible situation for all involved...

[Maxiewolf]

The thing that apauls me the most, is if you watch some of the aftermath videos (by following the sources) - is the dog is just left lying there bleeding, for what seems like quite a while, noone even throws a towel or a blanket on it, or makes any attempt to stop her from bleeding - it truly is amazing she survived at all.

And, once the dog threat was removed - from the looks of the video, the guy is still there just lying on the ground - no paramedics or anyone even moving him into a recovery position or anything. So if shooting the dog was nessisary to give him medical attention then why not be giving it? If they where in so little hurry to do something for him then the police should have focused more on keeping people away from the dog (and not let the "Animal Expert" go in and rile her up even more) they should have protected the public and moved everyone back and waited for animal control if they where in no hurry to rush over and help the guy as soon as the dog was subdued.

I do feel sorry for the dog, the owner - who rescued her from an abusive situation, showered the dog with love and care (actually she looks very fit and healthy for a "street dog") - so essentially he created this extreemly protective dog, may have been a whole different story too if he had her on a leash, if he does get her back I hope it is enforced that she needs to wear a muzzle if is passing out is frequent.

[Pockets]

Wearing a muzzle is a bit unrealistic especially as he could obviously seizure at any time, which means the dog would have to be muzzled 24/7

They didn't go in and shoot the dog to clear the way for medical staff, they shot the dog when it charged at the police officer.

Can you imagine the Grief it would cause if the dog had injured a member of the public...the Officers would be scrutinized over why they hasn't reacted to the dog sooner..there damned if they do and damned if they dont