Police Shoot Dog Defending Unconscious Owner

[Maxiewolf]

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/8517399/police-shoot-dog-defending-unconscious-owner

**** Video is Distressing Be warned ****

Video has emerged of New York police shooting a dog that was guarding its unconscious owner.

Johnny Rodriguez, who witnessed the incident on Monday afternoon, said the man had suffered a seizure and was at risk of being hit by traffic, Gothamist reports.

Mr Rodriguez said the growling pit bull nipped at a woman who was standing close to the unconscious man before rushing at one of the police officers.

GRAPHIC WARNING: The above video shows the moment the police officer shot the dog.

The officer then shot the dog before a second sprayed it with mace.

"It's a tragedy, but I may have done the same thing that the cop did," Mr Rodriguez said.

"If you got a pit bull coming at you, I don't know if you stand there and get bit or use your gun.

"The dog was protecting the owner, that's what it does."

The dog survived the shooting and is being cared for at an animal hostel until its owner, identified as Lech Stankiewicz, can be contacted.

Brandon Verna, a friend of Mr Stankiewicz, told The Local East Village the dog had a history of being overprotective.

"Most of us figured out that when he’s passed out, whether he’s overdosing or not, leave him alone," Mr Verna said.

"If he’s going to die, call an ambulance and have them deal with it because no one wants to get bitten."

Sources: Gothamist, The Local East Village.

Author: Will Jackson. Approving editor: Henri Paget.

ETA:

I cant believe police are still not being given a more effective method or training to deal with peoples pets! - I'm glad the dog survived, Id like to think that if I was walking somewhere with my dog and I passed out that he would defend me from threatening persons, I'm sure that policeman seemed very dangerous to the dog. And not everyone anymore has the best intentions if they see someone unable to defend themselves... what a world.

Hope everyone involved in the situation recovers.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Maxiewolf

[melzawelza]

This is very, very sad to watch.

The poor dog was only doing what we've bred dogs to do for thousands of years. His owner was incapacitated and I agree, the police would have seemed very threatening.

At the same time after watching the video I don't really blame the cop for doing what he did either. The dog was actively running at him when he shot it, I can understand why he would have felt the need to defend himself and he certainly seemed upset at that after it happened.

Cops need training in animal management and they should have catch poles and other equipment for urgent situations like this when Animal Control may not be able to get there quickly enough.

[Salukifan]

Cops need training in animal management and they should have catch poles and other equipment for urgent situations like this when Animal Control may not be able to get there quickly enough.

I think these situations are not common enough to justify issuing cops with catch poles. God knows how you'd get into and out of a car with one on your belt or carry one on a foot patrol. And if you think a dog can't bite you if you have a catchpole, you'd be wrong. They're not designed for fending off attacks.

I think the comment that the dog had a history of being "over protective" is the one to focus on.

If you don't want emergency services to have to shoot your dog to get to you, then perhaps some socialisation to lower aggression to strangers might be called for.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[BlackJaq]

Well from the article it sounds like that guy passes out a lot, possibly from "overdoses" or whatever so maybe the dog felt it had a lot of reason to be so "overprotective"... I believe my dog would defend me as well if I was down and not moving, even if she knows the people who may be approaching?

I don't know if you can tell aggression from protectiveness in this situation and even a well socialized dog may become (overly) protective in these circumstances.

I do believe further training may enable police officers to handle these kind of situations a little better.

In saying that though, if the officer feared being attacked/injured himself, I see him defending hmself as acceptable. Maybe not necessarily with the gun to begin with but in that kind of ituation you may not get a second chance...

If the owner really does pass out from overdoses regularly then maybe he should either work on his ssues or not take his dog into public places after shooting up so that he may be helped without risking anyone else's health and safety...

Edited August 16, 2012 by BlackJaq

[melzawelza]

Cops need training in animal management and they should have catch poles and other equipment for urgent situations like this when Animal Control may not be able to get there quickly enough.

I think these situations are not common enough to justify issuing cops with catch poles. God knows how you'd get into and out of a car with one on your belt or carry one on a foot patrol. And if you think a dog can't bite you if you have a catchpole, you'd be wrong. They're not designed for fending off attacks.

I think the comment that the dog had a history of being "over protective" is the one to focus on.

If you don't want emergency services to have to shoot your dog to get to you, then perhaps some socialisation to lower aggression to strangers might be called for.

Who is to say this dog is in other situations aggressive towards strangers? From that comment they are talking about other times the owner has been unconscious (seems he is a junkie or has some other issue?). I know my dog wouldn't behave this way if I was unconscious because she is a useless guard dog and would just be scared but a lot of dogs would, and that wouldn't make them bad dogs. In fact it would be a desired trait in a lot of breeds. You seem to be making the assumption that the dog behaves like this at all times.

It's not hard to put a catch pole in a police van. And it seems to happen often enough considering all the stories coming out of the US of people's dogs being shot.

Edited August 16, 2012 by melzawelza

[Rebanne]

"Brandon Verna, a friend of Mr Stankiewicz, told The Local East Village the dog had a history of being overprotective.

"Most of us figured out that when he’s passed out, whether he’s overdosing or not, leave him alone," Mr Verna said.

"If he’s going to die, call an ambulance and have them deal with it because no one wants to get bitten." "

yep leave it to the people trying to help him to get bitten.

[Salukifan]

Perhaps its best to wait however long for animal control to arrive.

After all, its not like anyone is going be in a rush to see if the guy is OK or give medical aid or anything.

There's simply no "win/win" result here.

[Salukifan]

Rebanne:

yep leave it to the people trying to help him to get bitten.

Or expect them to wrangle an aggressive dog like a pro.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[Maxiewolf]

With reading the comments there saying they should have tasered the dog, would it have stopped the dog? And I thought it was pretty well established that spraying dogs with pepper spray / mace only gets them more upset?

I understand that its hard for a police officer to carry a catch pole, and a tranquilliser may not act fast enough to subdue a very overly aroused/agressive/excited/scared dog... Im sure if you can train an officer to aim down, shoot a dog moving at that speed and not miss then surely some kind of weapon like a non lethal net gun could be perscribed in any situation involving an animal?

http://spykidtoys.com/2009_personal_protection_st_sn1_net_gun.html

its about the size of a flashlight, and i'm sure they could use it on humans too if they had to! there has to be a better way than the spate of dog shootings by police going around.

[melzawelza]

Rebanne:

yep leave it to the people trying to help him to get bitten.

Or expect them to wrangle an aggressive dog like a pro.

I don't really know why you're getting so defensive, seeing I and everyone else that has posted so far have not blamed the officer for doing what he did.

We are simply discussing some alternatives that may have a better outcome for all in the future. I think most of us can agree this is not an ideal situation for the officer, the community or the dog.

Or would you prefer we simply say 'oh well, person should have trained the dog to be less aggressive (while he is drugged out and unconscious)' as you have?

Edited August 16, 2012 by melzawelza

[RiverStar-Aura]

I don't blame the officer for his actions either. I don't know if the dog's owner is known to the police but if they were called because a person was passed out on the ground, anything could've happened to him. The guy may have had a heart attack, in which case quick treatment and transfer to hospital would be required. Hardly time to stop and think of all possible ways to get passed the dog.

[Salukifan]

Rebanne:

yep leave it to the people trying to help him to get bitten.

Or expect them to wrangle an aggressive dog like a pro.

I don't really know why you're getting so defensive, seeing I and everyone else that has posted so far have not blamed the officer for doing what he did.

We are simply discussing some alternatives that may have a better outcome for all in the future. I think most of us can agree this is not an ideal situation for the officer, the community or the dog.

Or would you prefer we simply say 'oh well, person should have trained the dog to be less aggressive (while he is drugged out and unconscious)' as you have?

No they haven't blamed him but they'd like to see him equipped and skilled to deal with dog attacks other than with what they usually carry.

I think the the suggestion that every police officer should be equipped and trained to deal with aggressive dogs is expensive and unworkable. How much are you prepared to see your taxes increased to equip every police officer? How will motor cycle and beat cops carry their catchpoles, nets, tranquillers and every other tool folk like to suggest they employ.

Will they now be expected to fend off an attacking police dog with a catchpole every year during their annual use of force training on the off chance that they might be attacked? Even rangers don't do that. And if they don't get to practice, are career ending bites an acceptable result for lack of experience?

The issue is that a person had a dog that had a history of aggression and that had in that situation already had a crack at a member of the public. To expect your average police officer to have the skill and experience to deal with that other than by methods they know well and practice regularly is unrealistic.

Here's a solution. Don't own a dog with a history of aggression and find yourself in a situation that requires an emergency service response and expect cops to do anything other than shoot a dog that threatens them or members of the public. Can you imagine the condemnation if that dog had attacked a member of the public while the cops were trying to catch it? Or if the owner had died while animal control were being waited for? The dog should be confiscated from the owner for this - he's clearly not going to behave in a manner that protects public safety were the dog is concerned.

Local cops here aren't all equipped with tasers by the way. They are not standard issue and they don't always work on dogs. Sometimes the lives of dogs are not the priority and folk need to accept it IMO. If you want to own a dog that will protect your person or property then accept the fact that in emergency situations your dogs life may be forfeit. Choices have consequences.

How would a catch pole have helped here?

Edited August 16, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[BCNut]

I think these situations are not common enough to justify issuing cops with catch poles. God knows how you'd get into and out of a car with one on your belt or carry one on a foot patrol. And if you think a dog can't bite you if you have a catchpole, you'd be wrong. They're not designed for fending off attacks.

I think the comment that the dog had a history of being "over protective" is the one to focus on.

If you don't want emergency services to have to shoot your dog to get to you, then perhaps some socialisation to lower aggression to strangers might be called for.

+1. Look at the dog and its owner to start with. We shouldn't need our dogs to defend us anymore; they should be socialised to the point where they are safe and feel safe around all populations in the community. Unfortunately not all populations have good intentions but it's not up to our dogs to pick up the slack for that - they're our best mates and companions not our personal bodyguards.

It's not hard to put a catch pole in a police van. And it seems to happen often enough considering all the stories coming out of the US of people's dogs being shot.

Yes, it would be hard.

It would be unreasonable to expect every police resource to carry a catch pole. Sorry but thats lunacy...they already struggle to house the tools and devices they currently have that might actually make a difference - flakjackets for example.

[Salukifan]

It's not hard to put a catch pole in a police van. And it seems to happen often enough considering all the stories coming out of the US of people's dogs being shot.

Yes, it would be hard.

It would be unreasonable to expect every police resource to carry a catch pole. Sorry but thats lunacy...they already struggle to house the tools and devices they currently have that might actually make a difference - flakjackets for example.

Where/how would a police officer, having to respond out of a vehicle, carry a 4 foot long catch pole?

[sandgrubber]

Ugly, but is there a realistic alternative? It's sad that a loyal companion ends out getting killed for doing its duty. RIP, unnamed guardian.

That doesn't look like a great neighborhood. Police are probably under-resourced. If the average police person ends out confronting a dog only once every couple years, it's not realistic to expect them to carry special equipment or take special training to learn to handle aggressive/protective dogs.

Police are generally allowed to use a gun against a person who actively attacks. Dogs don't have civil rights. Street people using dogs for personal protection is not a good direction for a bad neighborhood.

[Holmesy]

Tasers seem to be effective. I remember seeing a clip on youtube of a quick thinking police officer tasered a Rotti I think that was trying to attack his partner (his partner had his gun drawn)

[Maxiewolf]

Ugly, but is there a realistic alternative? It's sad that a loyal companion ends out getting killed for doing its duty. RIP, unnamed guardian.

That doesn't look like a great neighborhood. Police are probably under-resourced. If the average police person ends out confronting a dog only once every couple years, it's not realistic to expect them to carry special equipment or take special training to learn to handle aggressive/protective dogs.

Police are generally allowed to use a gun against a person who actively attacks. Dogs don't have civil rights. Street people using dogs for personal protection is not a good direction for a bad neighborhood.

As far as I can see in the article the dog survived the shooting and is at an animal hostel. Surprisingly rare outcome.

[BlackJaq]

Ugly, but is there a realistic alternative? It's sad that a loyal companion ends out getting killed for doing its duty. RIP, unnamed guardian.

That doesn't look like a great neighborhood. Police are probably under-resourced. If the average police person ends out confronting a dog only once every couple years, it's not realistic to expect them to carry special equipment or take special training to learn to handle aggressive/protective dogs.

Police are generally allowed to use a gun against a person who actively attacks. Dogs don't have civil rights. Street people using dogs for personal protection is not a good direction for a bad neighborhood.

The dog actually survived.

And I can name a number of popular breeds off the top of my head where the breed standard calls for some kind of guarding disposition... Are those breeds or individual dogs who may have this disposition not allowed into public anymore now, in case their owner passes out and they think defending him is the right repsonse?

I own a dog with protective/guarding tendencies myself and I am definately NOT a "street person". However, if I was unconscious I could obviously not tell my dog to "stand down" or whatever. A dog may not have been purchased for his guard tendencies but as a family pet but may still respond in this way so what is a perosn to do, other than always leave their dog at home or hope like hell they aren't going t pass out?

I don't think there is a good or even realistic alternatve than using whatever is at hand but the person in the article should definately receive treatment for his habit if he indeed does have one, or maybe get some medical help if he is experiencing "seizures". Either way, taking this particular dog into public with him now that there have been several incidences is obviously unacceptable and if he refuses to recognize this then the dog should probably not be returned. I definately do not blame the dog though, or even the neighbourhood. Mostly the owner sinc ehe seems to ahve known that these situations were likely to occur.

[Sheilaheel02]

I don't know if you can tell aggression from protectiveness in this situation and even a well socialized dog may become (overly) protective in these circumstances.

I would consider my dogs reasonably well socialized, although far from perfect. However, I would not be surprised if in a situation where they perceived I was 'at risk' in some way they would, in absence of direction from me, do what was required to protect me. My dogs are not actively encouraged to protect my property or me, yet they do it instinctively. I agree it is far from ideal in a situation where I may require emergency assistance from a stranger, but I don't automatically put in the category of "aggression". I don't expect an ambulance officer or policeman to necessarily be experts on dog behaviour any more than I expect my dogs to recognize a 'good' uniform from a 'bad guy' in a balaclava. I would be devastated if emergency services personnel were injured by my dogs while they were trying to help me, or if one of my dogs was killed doing what they judged to be their 'job' at the time.

S

Edited to Add:

While my dogs are "Associate" versions, this is from the ANKC breed Standard:

Characteristics: As the name implies the dog's prime function, and one in which he has no peer, is the control and movement of cattle in both wide open and confined areas. Always alert, extremely intelligent, watchful, courageous and trustworthy, with an implicit devotion to duty making it an ideal dog.

Temperament: The Cattle Dog's loyalty and protective instincts make it a self-appointed guardian to the Stockman, his herd and his property. Whilst naturally suspicious of strangers, must be amenable to handling, particularly in the Show ring. Any feature of temperament or structure foreign to a working dog must be regarded as a serious fault.

No mention of 'aggression', however, their protectiveness is documented.

Edited August 17, 2012 by Sheilaheel02

[tdierikx]

I shouldn't have watched that.... it's a bit distressing...

... but agree that it was the quickest and most effective course of action the cop could take at the time.

T.