To De-sex Or Not To De-sex, Advice And Opinions, Please?

[espinay2]

You sound like you are not really keen about the idea of breeding and are trying to talk yourself out of the idea. You don't HAVE to breed, so by the sound of it you may find it a relief when you finally decide not to.

If you think you might though, here are some things for you to do/consider:

1. Talk to your girls breeder. Sit down with them if you can and have a session looking and the pros and cons of your girl. Get them to help go over her strengths and weaknesses with you and have them truly evaluate her.

2. She looks fit and healthy to me in the pictures and at 2 she is still young. I have had bitches who at that age stayed quite lean no matter what they were fed. By 3 or 4 though they have 'bodied out' and have been easier to maintain weight on. For this reason I personally wouldn't exclude her at this age on the basis of her being lean.

3. If your girls breeder is willing to mentor you, and you approach this in the right way under their guidance, I am not going to tell you NOT to breed just because you are not showing. It would be a good idea though, as it can help you in the long run. But just like with the horses, don't necessarily base breeding decisions on wins.

4. Sometimes the hardest decision is deciding NOT to breed - but making this decision can often be the right one, even with a 'nice bitch'. Not all 'nice' bitches need to be bred.

5. Health tests? what is suggested for the breed and have you done them?

6. IF you think breeding is something you will do, what are your goals for the litter? Make sure your goals are more than just 'to have puppies'. Do you think your bitch can contribute to the BREED in some way? Do you have plans for her progeny? Such as keeping a puppy to continue your breeding program? Responsible breeding looks beyond the one litter - it looks both forward and back - to generations past and generations yet to come.

6. Do you have the time for this or would you just rather enjoy your girl, and maybe get another dog later to join her in your home?

7. Desexing her is not the end. You can still enter her in neuter classes at shows. And you can use her to LEARN more about the breed. Every dog we own teaches us. There is nothing stopping you getting another down the track which you can potentially breed.

[OSoSwift]

SOme very good points and idea in here.

I would still question why the smell though, I have only ever smelt my bitches if very up close and personal and when one bitch had an open pyo near the very end of a season - that stunk!!!! I wonder if there is a little more going on than just an average season??

I know nothing about the finer points of conformation but will say she looks very fit and healthy, even when skinnier she still looks fit and healthy.

[BlackJaq]

Thanks guys, I will bring up the smell again when I take her in to be fixed. While they are there they can make sure she is ok all around ;)

I have had some confusing issues with smell before... She did not smell funny when she had a urinary tract infection, only had discharge and we went on antibiotics as soon as this was noticed.

She then had some anal gland issues during one of her skinny periods with fairly obvious signs (dragging her bum on the ground, obviously the smell when the anal gland emptied randomly (we now call this "a**-plosion for obvious reasons lol :p ) and more than usual attention given to "that area" when she felt uncomfortable. However, I had never had a dog with anal gland issues before so I didn't catch on as quickly as you might have thought. When I took her to the vet about it a new/inexperienced vet at the clinic thought it might be another UTI since she had one before... So she went on antibiotics and I tried for about three days to collect some pee.. She was NOT cooperative about this at all :p

Eventually I googled and basically saw the light/had an epiphany. Then took her in to have them checked/expressed and a different vet looked at her thta time, agreed anal glands were the culprit and quickly discovered that one was situated a little bit funky and due to some loss of fat in the area didn't express properly even though it was not a problem at normal weight.

I have not had any anal gland issues for a while now but still feed a bit of psyllium husk with her dinner a couple of times a week as suggested by the vet and also make sure she gets some bones/chicken necks/whatever in her diet to help firm up her business lol

During skinny episodes she does not seem to loose much muscle tone, just fat cover, mostly noticable across ribs, backbone and hips. She stays active and happy as per usual, no differenc ein behaviour really. Her coat and teeth are fine, too. It didn't really occur to me that it might be anxiety until I spoke to SparkyTansy int he We thread and she suggested it after I looked at the dates on the photos and realized this last one happened right around the time when I went to Dubbo Show with my horse and left her home with my OH for a couple of nights. The same thing happened last August when I went overseas for two weeks and she was kenneled at home with my other dog (who got a little fat if anything). This was also when she picked up her UTI and was a bit clingy for a while after that...

I guess I'm a bit thick at times but this is my first Wei as well, so the learning curve is definately steep. The practical experience with the dog has definately taught me at least as much as reading about the breed and talking to breeders was definately enlightening as well (as I am sure it is with every breed). If I feel the need I agree, I may consider getting another Wei to try again or I may get another even without breedng, they are lovely dogs in the right circumstances (again I am sure the same goes for any other breed, but I love my Wei just that little bit more lol) I recently got an older (unknown breed) pup from a pound out west though after loosing my German Coolie girl to a snake bite last year, so I doubt I will be getting any more permanent dogs any time soon. Two are enough for me I think :) (Coolie and new pup have both been desexed, needless to say)

Honestly I am glad I will not have the responsibility to try and find suitable homes for ten or more puppies. I think I said before, I would not recommend the breed to everyone and saying "no" to some people would cause them to find "other breeders" (namely the BYB's who have been mentioned before) and I would feel kind of guilty about driving them to it, even if it was in my dogs' best interest. Maybe avoiding the whole situation doesn't fix it but it sure makes it someone else's problem :p I don't know how other breeders can let their puppies go and not be overly obsessive about contacting every puppy owner every day and asking about the puppy.

My very own dogs' puppies would feel to me like children I think, I might not be able to let any of them go

I'll probably still look at showing her at a later date in neuter classes and I guess if she happened to do exceptionally well I might be a little sorry but not as sorry as if I'd lost her to complications. By the way I also thought 2 was pretty young still and did not intend to breed before she was at least three, what ages do others generally breed their maiden bitches at?

Sorry for the novel but I figure I might as well make some more use of the thread now that it is here ^^

Edited August 17, 2012 by BlackJaq

[dancinbcs]

You sound like you are not really keen about the idea of breeding and are trying to talk yourself out of the idea. You don't HAVE to breed, so by the sound of it you may find it a relief when you finally decide not to.

If you think you might though, here are some things for you to do/consider:

1. Talk to your girls breeder. Sit down with them if you can and have a session looking and the pros and cons of your girl. Get them to help go over her strengths and weaknesses with you and have them truly evaluate her.

2. She looks fit and healthy to me in the pictures and at 2 she is still young. I have had bitches who at that age stayed quite lean no matter what they were fed. By 3 or 4 though they have 'bodied out' and have been easier to maintain weight on. For this reason I personally wouldn't exclude her at this age on the basis of her being lean.

3. If your girls breeder is willing to mentor you, and you approach this in the right way under their guidance, I am not going to tell you NOT to breed just because you are not showing. It would be a good idea though, as it can help you in the long run. But just like with the horses, don't necessarily base breeding decisions on wins.

4. Sometimes the hardest decision is deciding NOT to breed - but making this decision can often be the right one, even with a 'nice bitch'. Not all 'nice' bitches need to be bred.

5. Health tests? what is suggested for the breed and have you done them?

6. IF you think breeding is something you will do, what are your goals for the litter? Make sure your goals are more than just 'to have puppies'. Do you think your bitch can contribute to the BREED in some way? Do you have plans for her progeny? Such as keeping a puppy to continue your breeding program? Responsible breeding looks beyond the one litter - it looks both forward and back - to generations past and generations yet to come.

6. Do you have the time for this or would you just rather enjoy your girl, and maybe get another dog later to join her in your home?

7. Desexing her is not the end. You can still enter her in neuter classes at shows. And you can use her to LEARN more about the breed. Every dog we own teaches us. There is nothing stopping you getting another down the track which you can potentially breed.

Very good post.

BlackJaq, please make sure you talk to her breeder before you make a final decision to desex her. The breeder may have been counting on her having a litter to breed back to at some time and there is nothing worse than selling a really good breeding bitch and then finding out it has been desexed before you have a chance to discuss plans with the owner. Remember a desexed bitch contributes nothing to the future of the breed. If the breeder wasn't figuring on her her being in their future plans then go ahead and have her desexed.

To answer your other question - large breed bitches are usually bred between 2 and 3 years for the first time. Bitches lose fertility with every season so it is best to not leave it too late.

[BlackJaq]

So for anybody who was interested, I had to delay the appointment so did not get the snip at the original date but Foxy has now been spayed two days ago.

She did take another dip in weight (down to about 25 kg on spay day) so I am really hoping things level out now that the hormonal activity will be largely removed/reduced.

I have not actually spoken to the breeder about de-sexing her but since they own both the father and the mother I am sure they can easily replace her if need be. She is plenty old enough that they would have contacted me about breeding from her if they had considered it.

On a different note, I am that excited not to have to deal with another heat again, not sure if I will ever want to own an entire dog or bitch again, even if I did feel the urge to breed. If I really wanted to spend that kind of money I could probably just sponsor a registered breeder's litter in exchange for puppy play rights :p lol Haha At least that way an experienced, knowledgeable person does the breeding and the outcome will be the best possible result.

[OSoSwift]

Thanks for the update :)

It will be interesting to see how she goes holding her weight from here on in. I found when I eventually got my Dobe bitch speyed at 5 she was so much easier to live with, her behaviour and moods were on a level so she was easier to train and not up and down. I really enjoyed her after she way desexed :)

[Tazar]

She is a very beautiful girl :) and you take great photos too!

[BJean]

She is a very beautiful girl :) and you take great photos too!

what Tazar said :)

[mantis]

I think you and your dog will be more content ...and the OH may also mellow out :p

Maybe she could get her OH neutered as well.

[BlackJaq]

Yes, I am also waiting with baited breath to see how her weight goes. She has not eaten too much since the surgery, mostly very special things like more roast and a pizza crust. She did eat some kibble finally last night but not too much. At this stage I am not too worried but because she is on the lean side again I think it may take a few weeks after she heals properly to actually see improvement...

She was not moody or even naughty or anything during heat, just stinky and not allowed on furniture/in bed during that time which bothered mostly me and her, OH not so much haha. Taking her to town or anywhere that had other dogs (lots of roaming and of leash dogs where I live) was a nightmare since every dog would come right at us and I even had dogs trying to break into my car when I left her in it to go into the newsagents She was probably a bit more likely to steal food during that time, which is something she would not normally consider doing at all, especially of a plate. We can happily leave our dinner on the table and walk out to get the salt and she would not even lift her head but when on heat she would do stuff like lick the table near the plate and such, nothing overly bad just out of character....

Thank you Tazar and lilli and mantis, lol well I did throw that idea out there when he complained that the animals eat better than him most days and have not heard any complaints since so I think the idea was enough to stun him into permanent silence haha

Edited October 26, 2012 by BlackJaq

[eyeopener]

Hello Everybody :)

So I understand that there are people on either side of the de-sex and breeding issue who feel very strongly about their point but I would liek to make the best decision for my dog and myself so I would really appreciate opinions based on our situation, rather than non-compromising individual opinions :)

In 2010 I bought a main register Weimaraner bitch with the intention of raising at least one litter and she is now almost 2 years old.

We've been struggling with keeping weight on her pretty much from the beginning and she has been seen by several vets very regularly throughout her life for various reasons including some minor accidents and she is healthy as far the vets and I can tell, vaccinated (heart worm + c3), wormed regularly and flea treated as necessary (not very often as we live out of town without neighbours/stray dogs).

She has been on various diets and apart from the fact that she is skinny for periods of time (skinny as in, all ribs are visible, pointy hip bones but good muscling around chest, belly and thighs) she does not have any issues. Her coat and teeth are good and she is active and outgoing. She went through a period where she was rather skinny and had anal gland issues for that time but they seem to be linked to the amount of fat around that area and simply do not express properly when they are sunken in to a degree. Anal gland issues have not been issues for several months now.

I feel that it is in her best interest to abolish my plans for a litter in favor of de-sexing her as I do think she will be battling with weight during preganacy and especially whilst nursing puppies. She does not seem overly fond of puppies as it is and being on heat is not her favorite time of year, since she is not allowed in the bed and has to wear "pants" (basically I use budgie smugglers with an open fly for her tail and ladies' pads) inside and in the car during heat to avoid everybody suffocating on the stink :p She bleeds fairly heavily and I didn't keep exact records for length of heat but I believe she stays on for 4 weeks or more generally from start to fnish.

Not having puppies will definately not be the end of the world for me since I love my girl very much and do not want to do anything that is not in her best interest. As it is, I was scared of the pregnancy and birth.

So, does anybody have any advice or opinions? I'm pretty much open to all opinions on the matter since I am as yet undecided on whether or not to de-sex her. She seems to be gaining some weight with her current diet but still only weighs around 25-26 kg. I think around 27-28 would probably be an ideal weight for her but even if she was hovering around the lower end of that, I believe puppies would quickly reduce her back to an unhealthy weight?

I would desex her as long as the thought her of a suitable weight to due which I would say wouldn't be an issue as she dose not sound tha bad. It may or may not help her weight issues but I do know my desexed girls are my fatties here. Is she a bloodline that's extremely hard to access in Australia or th best bitch you have ever seen if no to both questions I would not hesitate or second guess the matter & just make an appointment. Be easier on you both lifestyle wise, good luck.

[BlackJaq]

You are a little late, she is already spayed now :)

[eyeopener]

Has she gained weight?

[tdierikx]

It's only been a couple of days since spaying eyeopener...

T.