Shy Puppy

[Heston1]

Hi All,

So our little Heston had to have an emergency admittance to the vet early last Thursday morning due to severe vomiting and diarrhea. He spent the day at the vet and was home that night still a little unwell but mostly back to normal.

Whilst I was at the vet she mentioned that Heston was extremely shy when in his crate there and would cower at the back when they went to get him. We crate train him and he loves his space i there, so I know it was not the crate that he was scared of. She is now telling me that I need to be extremely careful that our sweet little Heston doesn't end up an aggressive dog in the fugu out of fear.

He has always been shy with new things and new people and we have been doing our best to take him with us everywhere and try new things and I was mostly happy that he was a bit quieter and reserved than other puppy's jumping on everyone.

Now I'm terrified that I'm going to end up with an aggressive dog, and that I've somehow done something wrong along the way

Can anyone offer some advise on helping our gorgeous boy be more confident so that we can reduce any likelihood of him being fear aggressive?

He is a 4 month old border collie and I know that they can be reclusive at times, is this a breed thing or a Heston thing? *sigh* I thought we were all doing so well

Thanks

[minimax]

Poor little guy, he was sick and in a strange place - I'd probably be a bit shy and cowering too!

[Christina]

Your dog was feeling like crap, ill, in a strange environment with other animal smells around, being handled by strangers for procedures that may have been somewhat painful & not a pleasant experience.

I don't think you can make an accurate assessment of him turning into an aggressive or excessively shy dog based on him being sick at the vets.

He would not be wagging his tail, greeting everyone with joy & turning cartwheels under the conditions. Carry on as normal now he is home.

[persephone]

I don't think that's unusual behaviour at a vets...

however , perhaps, instead of worrying yourself , and trying too hard to 'fix' things ..

firstly, have a read HERE

and then perhaps contact one of the very competent professionals in melb., who are also D O L members :) three names (and yes, I know there are more) I remember are Erny, Cosmolo, and Nekhbet .

They can work with you, ensuring Heston enjoys the best chance of growing up without fear.

[BC Crazy]

Hi Heston 1, I personnally wouldn't be too concerned with Heston. As others have said, feeling sick, change of enviourment e.t.c is not the time to do any sort of accurate temp. Assessment.

He is still very young & every pup is different. My girl has only just started to relax around strangers. She is just not a confident girl. Stella is 19 months old, not 4. My boy has always just taken everything in his stride & is quietly confident in most situations.

If I were you I would continue on as you were. Take him where ever you can & expose him safely to all new things at his own pace. I never force them but if something is new I first just let them explore it. BC's are very inquisitive & like to check everything out. With new people, again let him meet & greet in his own time.

With other dogs I am extremely careful with young pups & who they mix with. I prefer to only let pup mix with other dogs that I already know have a great temp.

Hope I have been some help to you. Totally understand raising a puppy can be nerve racking because all you are trying to do is "get it right" & then something like this happens & you think you have done the "wrong" thing.

Enjoy Heston, he is still just a baby. He will go through many changes while he matures.

I am all puppy clucky now LOL :)

Edited August 14, 2012 by BC Crazy

[Dame Aussie]

I've had a couple of vets comment on the fact that my Aussie is very shy when she is at the vets.

They're right, she is.

She isn't interesetd in getting attention or pats from them, she will let them do whatever they need to, but she just doesn't like it, and I don't blame her. When she's at home with people she knows she is the biggest cuddle bug you've ever seen and a complete clown.

I wouldn't worry too much, some dogs are more reserved than others, but if you are worried, contact the names Persephone gave you above, they will be able to help :)

[BCNut]

Agree with all the above, don't be worried if he was having a rough time at the vet. Strange place, people etc.

Calvin (also a BC) was quite reserved at that age too - he would have days where he was confident and happy go lucky and others where he was quite uncertain of some things.

Keep socialising him in a controlled manner and show him the things that make him uneasy will bring no harm. Little bits at a time and it wont be long before he's a social savvy confident young man.

As the puppy calender already linked in here says, fears continue for a while; Calvin has a phobia of gym balls at the moment of all things! Just work through it with plenty of distance, touching the object can sometimes make things more comfortable.

When he was about that 4mth age, Calvin was frightened of metal grates, so I would pat them with my hand and run up and down on them having a great time and soon he joined in :) Now he's obsessed with standing on them and trying to squeeze his nose through them to see whats under

I found this video useful too:

Hope this helps!

[OSoSwift]

It is not at all unusual for a fog, especially a young pup to be worried at the vets. Quite likely every time the took him out the did something to him, injection, checked temp, felt his sore tummy. If I was a puppy I would avoid those things as well.

I would call one of the trainers listed to get their assessment - once he is better- also to make sure you are happy in what you are doing.

I wouldn't be too concerned. Having worked in vet hospitals a long time his behaviour sounds normal. Many dogs zone out or ignore you and hope you will go away.

[Dame Aussie]

It is not at all unusual for a fog, especially a young pup to be worried at the vets. Quite likely every time the took him out the did something to him, injection, checked temp, felt his sore tummy. If I was a puppy I would avoid those things as well.

I would call one of the trainers listed to get their assessment - once he is better- also to make sure you are happy in what you are doing.

I wouldn't be too concerned. Having worked in vet hospitals a long time his behaviour sounds normal. Many dogs zone out or ignore you and hope you will go away.

That's interesting, that is exactly what Lili does, she almost pretends the vet isn't even there and just puts up with it till she's allowed to leave :laugh:

[dancinbcs]

I don't find it at all unusual that a sick dog was nervous at the vets, especially a 4 month old Border. At that age all sorts of things can spook them and I avoid leaving any of my Borders at the vets (unless it is life and death) because they are a quiet breed and I find they get very stressed if other dogs bark or whine near them in a confined space.

If he has been reserved from the start then yes, you do have a shy dog but they can be managed to gain more confidence if you keep doing what you are now. Take him to lots of places and let him experience different sights and sounds. Make sue you never really push him if he is scared but don't sympathise either. I find laughing at them seems to make them relax. If you tense up, they read your body language and worry more. Never let other dogs bully him, ever, or he will learn to get in first before the big scary dog attacks. Border have memories like elephants and never forget a breed that attacks them.

I have raised two shy Borders and neither became fear biters. The first was submissive all his life and I just had to be a bit careful about putting him in really scary situations but he gained an obedience title, was shown at Royal shows and went lots of places with me with very few problems. The second one hid under the chair at her first puppy pre-school and wouldn't go near the trainer. She became a show Champion and an outstanding Junior Handler dog that I could lend to any child to show. As she got older she also became pack leader and the guard dog here in her later years.

[W Sibs]

Poor pup is just probably feeling sick, scared and confused.

[Heston1]

Thank You everyone!

I also thought it was a bit much for her to expect him to be running up to her whilst in the crate at the vets! After all, he had his paw shaved, blood taken, his temp taken, I don't think I would be too happy with the person that was doing that to me!

I sort of liked the fact that he was reserved, he only has eyes for me and we are going so well in his training! Sit, stay and his recall is great, even when we are outside the house and I've let him off lead (in a well fenced area) he comes back and is very eager to please.

My concern is with the vet telling me that "someone" needs to be alpha or he will get distressed?!? I kind of thought he already thought I was the alpha? lol!

Having said all this, today I took him to pick my son up from school and he was more than happy to let all the kids pat him and not once did he show fear. As opposed to last week when he sat between my feet observing!

Thanks DancinBC - that was really lovely to hear. It's awesome to hear how even shy dogs can be perfectly healthy, normal and even be champions! We will keep taking him everywhere with us (we have pet friendly holidays booked! lol) but make sure we are giving him enough encouragement and love to make him comfortable. Laughing at him sounds like a great idea when he is being timid! Will definitley try that one.

One step at a time I guess - and try not to get too upset with what the vet has insinuated!

[dancinbcs]

Thank You everyone!

I also thought it was a bit much for her to expect him to be running up to her whilst in the crate at the vets! After all, he had his paw shaved, blood taken, his temp taken, I don't think I would be too happy with the person that was doing that to me!

I sort of liked the fact that he was reserved, he only has eyes for me and we are going so well in his training! Sit, stay and his recall is great, even when we are outside the house and I've let him off lead (in a well fenced area) he comes back and is very eager to please.

My concern is with the vet telling me that "someone" needs to be alpha or he will get distressed?!? I kind of thought he already thought I was the alpha? lol!

Having said all this, today I took him to pick my son up from school and he was more than happy to let all the kids pat him and not once did he show fear. As opposed to last week when he sat between my feet observing!

Thanks DancinBC - that was really lovely to hear. It's awesome to hear how even shy dogs can be perfectly healthy, normal and even be champions! We will keep taking him everywhere with us (we have pet friendly holidays booked! lol) but make sure we are giving him enough encouragement and love to make him comfortable. Laughing at him sounds like a great idea when he is being timid! Will definitley try that one.

One step at a time I guess - and try not to get too upset with what the vet has insinuated!

The shy ones are fine so long as you aren't too alpha with them. They need a confident leader but being heavy handed with them will cause problems, so it sounds like you are doing all the right things and the vet hasn't really had much to do with Borders. Really seriously timid and scared about everything is a different matter but your puppy does not fit that description.

Any time you need advice with a situation, feel free to pm me.

Edited August 15, 2012 by dancinbcs

[Vickie]

I would not be taking advice on an Internet forum about this pup. None of these people have seen him. If you are worried, take him to see someone & have him assessed.

I had a warning about one of my BC pups from my vet many years ago. He was 4 months at the time & very timid at the vets. He was also timid in other, but not all situations. I spent A LOT of time training and even more time managing him for the rest of his life.

He was a very sweet dog & a great companion, but as he matured, he did display some worrying behaviours. I'm glad I got help with him when he was young. I was still managing him till the day he died.

I've had 5 BCs since & none have done anything but wiggle & try to lick my vet or any other person.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Vickie

[Sayreovi]

Just my two cents but reserved doesn't always equal shy! My breeds standard actually calls for them to be reserved.

I've had heaps of people tell me my girl is 'shy' just because she didn't run up to them and demand pats. She has no desire to go out of her way to meet most people (usually ignores them as they hold no value to her) and when she does, is incredibly polite and gentle.

She is very confident in most situations and bounces back extremely quickly from scares, she goes to Royals, shows, flyball and agility comps and never shows fear or shyness.

She would probably be even more reserved and ignore everyone in the same situation that your puppy was in :)

I think people (even experienced people) tend to see a dog that is reserved and incorrectly label it shy.

[Clyde]

I have raised two shy Borders and neither became fear biters.

I groom quite a few shy Borders which huddle up at the back of the crate. When I go to get them out they give me the 'I'm scared and I'm going to bite you' look but they never do. I actually find the shy ones easier to groom rather than the crazy 'let's bite the dryer' ones. :laugh:

Over time they've gotten better but they are still not in to me.

But if a Tzu gives me that look, sure as anything they'll have a go :laugh:

I think people (even experienced people) tend to see a dog that is reserved and incorrectly label it shy.

I agree (in some cases). Another Border I groom regularly I always assumed was shy but I have realised he is just reserved and I have tried to win him over but he always snubs me. He has no interest in my affection, it's almost as if he is just tolerating me.

I won't give up though! :laugh:

Edited August 15, 2012 by Clyde

[OSoSwift]

My male Whippet looks away and prentends they are not there. He doesn't have value for interaction with other people. My bitch well, she's anyones and we call her a pat-me-tart.

I would think about getting an experienced assesment - worst case senario they tell you you are doing everything right :) worst is they give you some things to work on - win win all sides really.

I have had more than few BC's look like they were going to or have snapped in a vet-in-cage situation. I don't blame them at all. You just make sure you get them out/do what you need to do with the least amount of stress to them as possible.

Edited August 15, 2012 by OSoSwift

[Sayreovi]

I think people (even experienced people) tend to see a dog that is reserved and incorrectly label it shy.

I agree (in some cases). Another Border I groom regularly I always assumed was shy but I have realised he is just reserved and I have tried to win him over but he always snubs me. He has no interest in my affection, it's almost as if he is just tolerating me.

I won't give up though! :laugh:

Yup I do agree that most of the time they are actually shy (and need to be treated differently)

Haha Her father is very similar to her, he snobs everyone off so much so that I now tell people beforehand not to be offended :p

[doglifetraining]

Thank You everyone!

I also thought it was a bit much for her to expect him to be running up to her whilst in the crate at the vets! After all, he had his paw shaved, blood taken, his temp taken, I don't think I would be too happy with the person that was doing that to me!

I sort of liked the fact that he was reserved, he only has eyes for me and we are going so well in his training! Sit, stay and his recall is great, even when we are outside the house and I've let him off lead (in a well fenced area) he comes back and is very eager to please.

My concern is with the vet telling me that "someone" needs to be alpha or he will get distressed?!? I kind of thought he already thought I was the alpha? lol!

Having said all this, today I took him to pick my son up from school and he was more than happy to let all the kids pat him and not once did he show fear. As opposed to last week when he sat between my feet observing!

Thanks DancinBC - that was really lovely to hear. It's awesome to hear how even shy dogs can be perfectly healthy, normal and even be champions! We will keep taking him everywhere with us (we have pet friendly holidays booked! lol) but make sure we are giving him enough encouragement and love to make him comfortable. Laughing at him sounds like a great idea when he is being timid! Will definitley try that one.

One step at a time I guess - and try not to get too upset with what the vet has insinuated!

Hi Heston1,

It's interesting that you say you like him this way, I think an introverted dog is often much easier to train and live with than the extroverted ones. It sounds like you are doing all of the right things, just keep doing it for the next few years, dogs go through many personality changes in their life and a dog who is introverted needs to be continually exposed to novel situations (in a non forceful way) to reduce the likelihood of fearful behaviour.

You sound like you know your puppy very well which suggests to me that you spend a lot of time with him, good on you! Knowing what he is like you should be his voice and 'have his back'. Be aware of his body language and respond accordingly so he never feels the need to behave aggressively.

You're doing great, just keep going.

Here is a link to an article and video on canine body language....

doglifetraining|canine body language

Good luck, he sounds utterly gorgeous!

Katarina

[aussielover]

I agree with Vickie.

I know that you probably just want reassurance that your puppy is "normal" (which he most likely is :))

BUT none of us have ever seen your pup so we can't really say whether it may be a serious issue or not.

If you do think it may be an issue and you've noticed that he is more nervous than other puppies his age, then have him assessed by a professional.

Edited August 15, 2012 by aussielover