Qld Police Shoot Dead Two Violent Dogs

[Chris the Rebel Wolf]

We can only speculate, as with most news, we are rarely told the full story. Personally, I would suspect that Jack may have had a medical problem as discussed page 2, such as a potential brain tumour. But it could also have been a poorly trained dog with few boundaries. To me the fact that Rosie was also shot although not involved in the attack, suggests that she too may have been behaving in a threatening manner to her owner. But on the other hand she also could have been jumping/barking and showing distress due to the attack by Jack, and the police officer had to act to protect the owner.

I too, would have gotten an autopsy done.

[Steph M]

I wonder who called the police?

Must be awful though, imagine how guilty you'd feel being the owner, and it sounds like the police were genuinely remorseful too.

Nobody wins there, it's a shame.

[Guest lavendergirl]

We can only speculate, as with most news, we are rarely told the full story. Personally, I would suspect that Jack may have had a medical problem as discussed page 2, such as a potential brain tumour. But it could also have been a poorly trained dog with few boundaries. To me the fact that Rosie was also shot although not involved in the attack, suggests that she too may have been behaving in a threatening manner to her owner. But on the other hand she also could have been jumping/barking and showing distress due to the attack by Jack, and the police officer had to act to protect the owner.

I too, would have gotten an autopsy done.

Chris I am sure I read somewhere that Rosie was "caught in the cross-fire" and not targeted at all. Poor old Rosie.

[Tralee]

"The dogs had their own room fitted out with a king-size bed and filled with toys."

Actually I find this quite bizarre.

As always the issue with dogs is more about people management than dog control.

Unfortunately, there are several stages of maturity required in canine husbandry, that owners need to progress through in order to fully and completely appreciate dogs for what they are.

Canine husbandry is a challenging and demanding venture.

The lessons are hard and the learning is sometimes costly, as this tragic event shows.

But let it never be forgotten that the primary objective is strong and healthy dogs that can be accomodated (temperament-wise) within an artificial environment.

Regards

[hortfurball]

We can only speculate, as with most news, we are rarely told the full story. Personally, I would suspect that Jack may have had a medical problem as discussed page 2, such as a potential brain tumour. But it could also have been a poorly trained dog with few boundaries. To me the fact that Rosie was also shot although not involved in the attack, suggests that she too may have been behaving in a threatening manner to her owner. But on the other hand she also could have been jumping/barking and showing distress due to the attack by Jack, and the police officer had to act to protect the owner.

I too, would have gotten an autopsy done.

Or Rosie might have been acting in a way that made the police fearful for their own safe entry. That would be my guess rather than threatening the owner. It is a situation in which the police would feel the need to eliminate the threat to themselves inorder to help the injured man. Still sad.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

1. Title "Pampered best mate" is merely journalistic license and no proof they were 'pampered'.

Possibly, but a number of show people reading this thread will recognise the journalist's name and he does understand dogs.

[Odin-Genie]

1. Title "Pampered best mate" is merely journalistic license and no proof they were 'pampered'.

Possibly, but a number of show people reading this thread will recognise the journalist's name and he does understand dogs.

Pampered can mean a lot of different things to different people. Some people I know call my dogs pampered since they are inside all day with us, get the best food and medical treatment and come with us on our holidays.

[sandgrubber]

My two cents . . . the quote: "He said it wasn't Jack, didn't even look like Jack. He yelled but he didn't flinch - his eyes were glazed over. .. " deserves attention.

That doesn't sit with the picture of a pampered, dominant animal. The spoiled vicious brat of a dog shows his mettle a few times before he reaches four years. dancingbc's hypothesis of brain malfunction trumps the hypothesis of 'spoiled dog that hasn't learned who is boss'.

[asal]

yes i go with the why wasnt an autopsy done.

we had a border collie who at 7 began threatening people. he became frenzied to get out and was jumping the fence at 7 feet.

i came home and as i was walking towards the house he had escaped again and came for me.

no matter what i said he didnt react to my voice, his eyes too were glazed. he went for my thoat and as i screamed his name at him at the last minute it was if he was snapped out of a trance.

and he fell to the ground very confused.

we took him to the vet and yes he had a tumor and was put down. the vet said he was going in and out of trance like behaviour and once the trance like state kicked in he became savage. he believed he may also be in a lot of pain so he was put down immediately.

a friends horse began behaving very strangely and by the second week rearing and throwing herself over backwards without any prior warning and again a tumor was found so it can happen to any species

I will never forget the look in Nei's eyes that day, it was the look of madness, absolutely terrifying

Edited September 18, 2012 by asal

[hortfurball]

1. Title "Pampered best mate" is merely journalistic license and no proof they were 'pampered'.

Possibly, but a number of show people reading this thread will recognise the journalist's name and he does understand dogs.

Whether the journalist understands dogs or not is irrelevant. The journalist is not the one who suggested this tragedy happened because the owners spoiled their dogs.

Any journalist will use whatever title and rhetoric he thinks will sell the story to his editor and the public. I don't think Joe Public (or DOL public as the case may be) should pick unsupported phrases out of an article, presume they have all the answers and be so scornful. (ETA Not directed at you SSM)

Pity the wife if she ever finds this public discussion.

I'm with Sandgrubber on this one:

My two cents . . . the quote: "He said it wasn't Jack, didn't even look like Jack. He yelled but he didn't flinch - his eyes were glazed over. .. " deserves attention.

Edited September 19, 2012 by hortfurball

[cannibalgoldfish]

What if there was no problems mentally or any tumour found?

[sandgrubber]

Where did I say that people don't or shouldn't love their dogs? I have met a few people who seem to think their 'fur-kids' (stupid expression that it is) are substitute children. It's not healthy for the poor dogs. The expression is somewhat cringeworthy.

As for 'dominance theory as advertised on TV', it depends on the breed and the owner. I presume you are referring to Cesar Milan. He is certainly not unknowledgeable in dog behaviour.

Fact - dogs are pack animals.

Fact - there is always a leader or dominant dog in a pack and members of the pack work out the hierachy. Dogs,kept in family homes see humans as part of their pack.

Your "facts" not supported by science. See, eg:

http://www.leecharle...packleader.html

Quoting from the beginning of that article:

Myth #1 - Dogs Obey the Pack Leader

The biggest myth is that dogs have an instinct to obey the "pack leader." New research shows that wolves live in extended family units, not dominance hierarchies. Even more surprising, however, is that wolves who settle near garbage dumps don't form packs (Coppinger), and that coyotes also form packs, but only in the winter when small prey is scarce. This suggests that the pack is neither a dominance hierarchy nor an extended family, but exists solely for the purpose of hunting large prey, a dangerous enterprise that requires intense commitment and cooperation. It also requires a group of like-minded individuals who share a common purpose, but who also possess strong differences in temperament. It's these differences in temperament - long thought to be an integral part of the pack's hierarchical structure - that enable the wolf's pack-style of hunting to succeed. And while it's true that only one animal leads the pack when they hunt, that animal is not the pack leader: it's the prey.

There's no question that dogs and wolves will gravitate toward anyone who exudes confidence, who gives clear signals on what you want from them, particularly if those signals and behaviors are in-synch with their instincts for group cooperation. But they clearly don't gravitate toward someone who's intent on dominating them or pushing them around. In fact, they don't like that at all.

But don't just take my word for it. Here are some links that will help you understand the real pack dynamic: . . .

article proceeds to quote several sources who have studied wolves or wild dogs

Edited September 21, 2012 by sandgrubber

[BJean]

Dominance isn't something that can be bred into a dog. Rather it is the the character or disposition of something to control or assert authority over another. That isn't genetic, a larger body type, a balanced mind, guarding instincts, protection instincts and intelligence can be bred, dominance is individual to the dog, not the breed.

A dominant dog is regarded as 'dominant' because its determination to carry out its will is foremost. Dominant is a temperament trait and like all traits can be bred in or bred out of a dog.

[Aidan3]

What if there was no problems mentally or any tumour found?

Then the odds of this happening are very low. Without an autopsy, we cannot know. Even with an autopsy, many neurological disorders wouldn't show up (more likely to show up while the dog is alive, using a brain imaging technique - $$$). It's always possible that this sort of attack has a psychosocial origin, but whether the report of a king-size bed and an abundance of toys points to an owner who is overly permissive with his dogs, who knows? He might have just had a spare bed and took the advice of every modern dog trainer who advises preventing boredom.

[hortfurball]

Very large and giant breed dogs need extra padding where bedding is concerned. Have you ever looked at the elbows of great danes/mastiffs and seen the large patches of roughened scaly looking skin? That's generally from insufficiently padded bedding. They are large heavy dogs, and most of their owners find it better for the dogs to allocate them a proper bed or couch rather than a dog bed on the floor.

A raised bed also gets them out of draughts, and makes it easier on their joints rather than getting up and down all the time. These dogs tend to have shorter lifespans than average, so looking after their joints and keeping them out of draughts is just standard for their lifetime, whereas for a smaller dog, these tend to be things only contemplated when they are older.

I don't find it at all odd that they had their own bed. Half the danes I know have their own bed or couch, and the other half sleep on their owners' bed! To me, having their own bed actually suggests that they were NOT allowed on the owner's bed.

Lots of toys could easily just mean that the owners valued their furniture!

ETA: I know they were American Bulldogs not danes but they are still large heavy dogs and have similar care needs.

Edited October 2, 2012 by hortfurball