Guide Dog Killed

[Salukifan]

I'm sorry but breed type DOES have to come into question. It's just a simple fact that some breeds ARE going to be more LIKELY to attack another dog if walking down the street OFF LEAD in a pack of four. These dogs need to be treated differently BECAUSE they are different.

WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY!

I think you will find most dogs operating in a pack structure are just as likely to attack as a pack of bull breed dogs. Again it has nothing to do with breed.

You're not seriously suggesting that all dog breeds have the same inate levels of dog aggression are you? Some dogs, bred to live and hunt in packs have been selectively bred for centuries for low levels of dog aggression. SSM's beagles are one such example.

The function a dog was bred to perform MATTERS. The fact that some dog owner have no freakin idea of what drives their dogs have and what they are capable of is terrifying.

And when you buy your pup from a breeder who know sweet FA about what they are breeding, it compounds the problem.

[Puppoochi]

I'm sorry but breed type DOES have to come into question. It's just a simple fact that some breeds ARE going to be more LIKELY to attack another dog if walking down the street OFF LEAD in a pack of four. These dogs need to be treated differently BECAUSE they are different.

WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY!

I think you will find most dogs operating in a pack structure are just as likely to attack as a pack of bull breed dogs. Again it has nothing to do with breed.

You're not seriously suggesting that all dog breeds have the same inate levels of dog aggression are you? Some dogs, bred to live and hunt in packs have been selectively bred for centuries for low levels of dog aggression. SSM's beagles are one such example.

The function a dog was bred to perform MATTERS. The fact that some dog owner have no freakin idea of what drives their dogs have and what they are capable of is terrifying.

And when you buy your pup from a breeder who know sweet FA about what they are breeding, it compounds the problem.

[KatrinaM]

Pretty sure my two crippled for life mastiff types didn't care that they were attacked by a pack of non bull breeds that are traditionally associated with being good pets, especially since one of them will probably require amputation of his leg even after 18 months of rehabilitation. Irresponsible owners suck, regardless of the breed they own, any dog is capable of doing damage. The poor guide dog would be just as dead if a pack of beagles had have threatened and caused her to flee into traffic.

[OSoSwift]

I owned one Stafford and two Dobermanns (who after 4 years had to be kept seperate) I live on a farm. I know what they could have done had they been allowed to roam. They never had the chance.

My Whippets would cause less of an issue. They wouldn't look sideways at livestock and in no way would pick a fight with another dog or even bother going near it, but they also are never allowed the opportunity to roam.

[Jetson]

Very sad. Rip

[LizT]

I'm sorry but breed type DOES have to come into question. It's just a simple fact that some breeds ARE going to be more LIKELY to attack another dog if walking down the street OFF LEAD in a pack of four. These dogs need to be treated differently BECAUSE they are different.

WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY!

Agree 100%. But it isn't just bull breeds that have a tendency do attack when in a pack. That is why I support an all breed based legislation.

Agree. There are many breeds that come to mind when I speak of this. While I too support an "all breed based legislation" in principle. I have to admit there are some checks and balances I'd personally like to see when people buy dogs of certain breeds. As an example...I own both the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel and the German Shepherd. I would whole heartedly suggest a CKCS for the first time dog owner...the GSD....that would very much depend on the new owner and their level of commitment and sense of responsibility. Again..."checks and balances".

[mantis]

Pretty sure my two crippled for life mastiff types didn't care that they were attacked by a pack of non bull breeds that are traditionally associated with being good pets, especially since one of them will probably require amputation of his leg even after 18 months of rehabilitation. Irresponsible owners suck, regardless of the breed they own, any dog is capable of doing damage. The poor guide dog would be just as dead if a pack of beagles had have threatened and caused her to flee into traffic.

I know the feeling, my boy was attacked 3 times by off lead dogs, one was a SWF. He became FA after that, when before he loved dogs of all sizes. What angers me most, the people who's dogs attacked Kenny complained to the council that I had a vicious dog out in public, even though he didn't hurt any of the dogs that attacked him, just held them down, until the owners put them on lead.

[Zhou Xuanyao]

You're not seriously suggesting that all dog breeds have the same inate levels of dog aggression are you? Some dogs, bred to live and hunt in packs have been selectively bred for centuries for low levels of dog aggression. SSM's beagles are one such example.

It's a matter for individual dogs, not breeds.

The function a dog was bred to perform MATTERS.

Most dogs aren't bred for any function other than that of a pet.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Lo Pan

[Plan B]

WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY!

Bullcrap. With ANY dog comes great responsibility.

Every breed should be responsibly owned, regardless of power. Maybe then we won't be seeing so many unsocialised, untrained, yappy, aggressive, fearful dogs of all breeds.

[Salukifan]

You're not seriously suggesting that all dog breeds have the same inate levels of dog aggression are you? Some dogs, bred to live and hunt in packs have been selectively bred for centuries for low levels of dog aggression. SSM's beagles are one such example.

It's a matter for individual dogs, not breeds.

The function a dog was bred to perform MATTERS.

Most dogs aren't bred for any function other than that of a pet.

Get real Lo Pan. Many pet dogs are of breeds bred to perform a function.. and a lot of issues you see in pet dogs stem from their owner's lack of understanding of that.

Over the development of such breeds we altered and selected for characteristics like levels of biddibility and independence, reactivity, levels of bite inhibition and bite thresholds. Drives were also shaped and selected for. And many of those features remain present in our pet dogs. The whole point of creating breeds is increasing the likelihood of certain characteristics in the dogs and decreasing the range of characteristics as well - a more predictable outcome is the result.

Of course some breeders don't give a toss about all of that. And that can also create issues. A Labrador with a low bite threshold, very mouthy and a hard bite...bloody wonderful. Any gundog that aggresses towards other dogs? Dogs of fighting ancestry that are HA? All poor breeding.

The fact that many pet owners have no freakin idea about any of this and think that the only difference between breeds is how they look is, in my opinion, a significant contributor to behavioural issues their pets experience.

How breeds view the world and react to stimuli is part genetic. When you choose a breed you should be aware of the function it originally performed because you're going to be dealing with behaviour driven by that... and you best be prepared for it.

If you want the world to view your dog as a fluffy marshmallow then don't get a bull breed. They're generally courageous, tenancious and stoic. They may not react quickly to other dogs behaving like pork chops but chances are if provoked they will finish, ice and put the sprinkles on the other dog.. becasue that's what they were bred for. We socialise dogs to lower levels of reactivity and instill appropriate behaviour but if push comes to shove I'd expect most bull breeds will give a good account of themselves.

When such dogs end up in the hands of those who encourage aggression and fail to socialise and control... well that is how we ended up with the crock that is BSL.

Yep, any dog can be aggressive but what any dog can do in terms of damage is not the same... and denying it does't change the result. So, the more powerful your dog, the more onus on owners to protect the breed and keep it out of the media... and sadly there's a whole class of owners attracted to such dogs as image enhancers.

And when poorly bred and crossbred to produce a mix of drives, levels of reactivity and bite control and then let loose on the community... well this thread is what you end up with.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[Kavik]

And when poorly bred and crossbred to produce a mix of drives, levels of reactivity and bite control and then let loose on the community... well this thread is what you end up with.

This is my view as well. The difficult part of the whole situation with pit bulls is that sure we should blame deed not breed, but when APBT are a banned breed, then those that are bred are more likely to be poor examples of the breed or crossbred, and like any breed that is poorly bred or crossbred, the reliability of temperament then goes out the window. That combined with the type of people most likely to be interested in a breed that is banned, and the level of care and training put into them, leads to poor outcomes for the dog, breed and community.

[geo]

And when poorly bred and crossbred to produce a mix of drives, levels of reactivity and bite control and then let loose on the community... well this thread is what you end up with.

This is my view as well. The difficult part of the whole situation with pit bulls is that sure we should blame deed not breed, but when APBT are a banned breed, then those that are bred are more likely to be poor examples of the breed or crossbred, and like any breed that is poorly bred or crossbred, the reliability of temperament then goes out the window. That combined with the type of people most likely to be interested in a breed that is banned, and the level of care and training put into them, leads to poor outcomes for the dog, breed and community.

And there in lies a major problem for the APBT, the fact they are banned only makes the breedings more difficult, go underground, unable to show for confirmation, sport, schutzhund or whatever.. there is no platform for the breed to improve because legislation is preventing the improvement of the breed as a whole, compounding the issue.

If there was all of these outlets available to legitimate breeders then surely the breed would benefit...?

Even though i don't agree with what some breeders are doing with the amstaff (i.e huge 40kg+ dogs) but atleast they're aiming for temperement.

[Dame Aussie]

And when poorly bred and crossbred to produce a mix of drives, levels of reactivity and bite control and then let loose on the community... well this thread is what you end up with.

This is my view as well. The difficult part of the whole situation with pit bulls is that sure we should blame deed not breed, but when APBT are a banned breed, then those that are bred are more likely to be poor examples of the breed or crossbred, and like any breed that is poorly bred or crossbred, the reliability of temperament then goes out the window. That combined with the type of people most likely to be interested in a breed that is banned, and the level of care and training put into them, leads to poor outcomes for the dog, breed and community.

And there in lies a major problem for the APBT, the fact they are banned only makes the breedings more difficult, go underground, unable to show for confirmation, sport, schutzhund or whatever.. there is no platform for the breed to improve because legislation is preventing the improvement of the breed as a whole, compounding the issue.

If there was all of these outlets available to legitimate breeders then surely the breed would benefit...?

Even though i don't agree with what some breeders are doing with the amstaff (i.e huge 40kg+ dogs) but atleast they're aiming for temperement.

Exactly, if they were legal to breed, responsible breeders would be breeding better dogs for people to own. Rather then underhanded dodgy BYBs out to make a buck.

[Salukifan]

Very difficult to socialize and obediece train a banned breed also. It just compounds the problem.

[geo]

Very difficult to socialize and obediece train a banned breed also. It just compounds the problem.

Exactly, people in fear they can't go to obedience classes because someone will dob their dog in to the hotline and whammo no more family pet.

[JulesP]

Very difficult to socialize and obediece train a banned breed also. It just compounds the problem.

Exactly, people in fear they can't go to obedience classes because someone will dob their dog in to the hotline and whammo no more family pet.

Restricted breeds are not actually allowed to attend VCA affiliated dog schools in Victoria.

[dandybrush]

I am not pro BSL, but I would rather encounter 4 off lead Beagles than 4 off lead Pit Bulls any day.

EFS

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[ILoveBoundaries]

WITH GREAT POWER COMES GREAT RESPONSIBILITY!

Bullcrap. With ANY dog comes great responsibility.

Every breed should be responsibly owned, regardless of power. Maybe then we won't be seeing so many unsocialised, untrained, yappy, aggressive, fearful dogs of all breeds.

Can't agree. In fact I think it's a cop out for those that own or support the retention of dangerous dogs to say they have no more responsibility than anyone else. There's standard dog owner responsibility, and then there's a few extra and extremely important things you need to do if you own a powerful dogs.

I see the Banyule Council mayor has said they were 3 pit bulls. So those that attacked the media for incorrect reporting of it being a pitbull attack can apologise now, but it may also snow in hell.

[Zhou Xuanyao]

I'm perfectly real Haredown Whippets.

Get real Lo Pan. Many pet dogs are of breeds bred to perform a function..

Yes that's correct, but that's not what you said before.

Most dogs are bred as pets; the heritage of the breed is another story. My dog was bred as a pet from pet lines, end of discussion.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

My dog was bred as a pet from pet lines, end of discussion.

What are the characteristics of pet line breeding?