Sheridan Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 1344676790[/url]' post='5926263']1344676387[/url]' post='5926249']1344675735[/url]' post='5926237']1344675160[/url]' post='5926227'] Ok, I'll rephrase it and say restricted breeds instead of dangerous dogs. I don't know how else to describe breeds that tough guys want to own and use to intimidate others with. It's not rephrasing, it's getting the terminology correct. Now I can understand your earlier comment that under the proposed framework I linked 'dangerous dogs have to attack before being declared dangerous' and this was a problem. In response to that, I'm assuming you are meaning that you believe all bull breeds should be automatically be declared dangerous, and you are ignoring all the data in that report that shows that this approach is useless. Not at all. Well, in that case I have NFI what you're talking about. You stated you don't like the scheme because dogs have to attack to be declared dangerous. Under the proposed scheme dogs do not have to severely attack someone to be declared dangerous. They can be declared 'potentially dangerous' based on threatening behaviour. I don't understand what more you want, other than dogs being declared dangerous because they look a particular way. Puppoochi wants to get rid of the dogs. Sheridan wants to kill Bambi Bambi, see the film, eat the cast. Are you now denying that you want to get rid of all these types of dogs? Your past posts would indicate otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puppoochi Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 1344676790[/url]' post='5926263']1344676387[/url]' post='5926249']1344675735[/url]' post='5926237']1344675160[/url]' post='5926227'] Ok, I'll rephrase it and say restricted breeds instead of dangerous dogs. I don't know how else to describe breeds that tough guys want to own and use to intimidate others with. It's not rephrasing, it's getting the terminology correct. Now I can understand your earlier comment that under the proposed framework I linked 'dangerous dogs have to attack before being declared dangerous' and this was a problem. In response to that, I'm assuming you are meaning that you believe all bull breeds should be automatically be declared dangerous, and you are ignoring all the data in that report that shows that this approach is useless. Not at all. Well, in that case I have NFI what you're talking about. You stated you don't like the scheme because dogs have to attack to be declared dangerous. Under the proposed scheme dogs do not have to severely attack someone to be declared dangerous. They can be declared 'potentially dangerous' based on threatening behaviour. I don't understand what more you want, other than dogs being declared dangerous because they look a particular way. Puppoochi wants to get rid of the dogs. Sheridan wants to kill Bambi Bambi, see the film, eat the cast. Are you now denying that you want to get rid of all these types of dogs? Your past posts would indicate otherwise. My posts indicate no such thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbi Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 (edited) Once people start calling for the extermination of a breed/type of dog due to isolated incidents hyperboled by the media( I am in no way belittling the suffering or heart ache caused to the victims of these attacks, only the jaundiced reporting and breed misidentification) Emotions are going to run high, imagine worrying that at any time your family member is at risk of being killed because of looks alone. Bsl does not stop the number of dog attacks in a community, move on from calling on breed bans and start looking for alternatives, this is what we must petition our politicians to do. Edited August 11, 2012 by Robbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labadore Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 What an absolute tragedy that a beautiful, highly skilled and trained seeing eye dog has lost her life in such tragic circumstances and her poor owner, god he must be beside himself with grief at her loss this is beyond sad For those of us that have lost dog(s) we all know how how extremely difficult and devastating that time is, but try to imagine how Matilda's poor owner must be feeling it must be an unimaginable horror for him to not only lose his best friend, his most devoted companion in such terrible circumstances, but he has lost his eyes as well. Just awful Run free sweetheart with all the other Labbies at the you will be missed more than you could ever know. My thoughts are with Matilda's owner and family they must be going through hell Hope the other poor dog fully recovers but I suspect his owner will carry this trauma for the rest of his life, knowing how much Matilda meant to his brother Terribly sad story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 This story really has very little to do with BSL. Why does every dog attack story have to turn into a BSL discussion. Pitbulls are just as capable and likely as any other breed or breed cross to be involved in a dog attack. You would think that some people here believe that pitbulls are incapable of being aggressive at all. I do not see the point in defending or trivialising the actions of the dogs involved. Obviously they caused injury to the cocker and were serious enough to scare a highly trained assistance dog into fleeing onto a road. All dogs, especially DA ones have no business being offlead and roaming in a public street. The whole incident could have been prevented if the owner had kept the dogs on lead and under control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asal Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 The headline says the guide dog was killed by pit bulls. It wasn't, it ran into the road and was killed by a car. Of course it shouldn't have happened, it's tragic for everyone involved, but sensationalism is stupid. It ran onto the road because it was being attacked by the other dogs. So they are directly responsible for the dogs death. The only thing sensational about the title is the reference to pit bulls. The headline actually says "Guide dog killed after being ambushed by pit bulls in Bellfield in Melbourne's northeast" This is true, but what if it was something else that had startled the dog? It wouldn't even have made the news then. Say it was a windy day and there was a tarp that suddenly moved, the dog startled and jumped into the road. My dogs have almost done this on several occasions. What if it had been a golden that suddenly jumped out from behind a corner and startled the dog? Other than the pit bull type dogs involved, it's not even worth reporting. True, but the guide dog was not startled by anything else but 4 dogs, pit bulls or other breed, it doesn't matter what. The fact is that these dogs attacked and mauled a cocker spaniel and then chased the guide dog onto the road. What would have happened if the blind owner was with the guide dog, and not his brother at the time? Why are you making excuses for these brutes whatever their breed happens to be? maybe it was their dogs that did the "startle" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asal Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Everytime I read a heading in here about a dog attack, I always find it disappointing and find myself shaking my head at so many ludicrous comments What a tragic series of events two very innocent dogs pay the price for HUMAN stupidity !!!! Pit Bulls and Bull x breeds need to be wiped out, sorry to say I used to argue till I was blue in the face with people about "blame the deed not the breed" but there comes a time when you throw your hands up in the air and admit defeat I 100% agree that these breeds can be loyal and loving companions in the right responsible home, but in the wrong hands, a very head strong and high drive breed can be devastating .....society today is just not equipped nor educated enough to deal with these breeds anymore the irresponsible unfortunately outweigh the responsible ... RIP Sweet Maggie, a sad end to your truly amazing and selfless life Fingers crossed for Bosley xxxxxxxxxxxx I never forget the video i saw of a women dog catcher in america being torn to bits by a pit bull she had been sent to catch, the attack was sickening and the dog just kept leaping and ripping at her arms legs body i still cant believe any humane person could film such horror instead of going to the womans aid. that was before even the first pit foot ever landed in australia. it was a guarantee that such dogs would be bought by every ego manic in the country. dogs like that are a magnet for such people, before they were german shepherds, dobermans, rotties and every pig cross imaginable but not until some idiot allowed the importation of the pittie has the massacres become so sickening. although quite a few other breeds pupular with the mafia and such are equally as capable, saw an add for 10 cane corsos pasted in a shop window beside a for sale add for 9 pitties. just written up on sheets of quarto paper. long as there are people whose egos need their tough dog status symbol all are potentially in danger sadly when that lot grow up, whats the odds, more headlines waiting unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 The headline says the guide dog was killed by pit bulls. It wasn't, it ran into the road and was killed by a car. Of course it shouldn't have happened, it's tragic for everyone involved, but sensationalism is stupid. It ran onto the road because it was being attacked by the other dogs. So they are directly responsible for the dogs death. The only thing sensational about the title is the reference to pit bulls. The headline actually says "Guide dog killed after being ambushed by pit bulls in Bellfield in Melbourne's northeast" This is true, but what if it was something else that had startled the dog? It wouldn't even have made the news then. Say it was a windy day and there was a tarp that suddenly moved, the dog startled and jumped into the road. My dogs have almost done this on several occasions. What if it had been a golden that suddenly jumped out from behind a corner and startled the dog? Other than the pit bull type dogs involved, it's not even worth reporting. True, but the guide dog was not startled by anything else but 4 dogs, pit bulls or other breed, it doesn't matter what. The fact is that these dogs attacked and mauled a cocker spaniel and then chased the guide dog onto the road. What would have happened if the blind owner was with the guide dog, and not his brother at the time? Why are you making excuses for these brutes whatever their breed happens to be? maybe it was their dogs that did the "startle" ? The behaviour of the 2 attacked dogs is irrelevant. They were on lead, the attacking dog were off lead. The responsibility lies with the attacking dogs owner. Are you saying that the guide dog and the cocker were "asking for it" somehow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asal Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 There is a difference between a restricted breed of dog and a dangerous dog... Any breed of dog can be labelled dangerous, by the actions of the individual dog.. But there are only a few breeds of dog that are on the restricted list. What breed will the morons of society move onto once our beloved breed has been eradicated? Not all restricted breeds are dangerous! There are many of these bull breeds (because according to a lot of breed bashers in this thread) that live in loving family homes. I have one, rescued from the pound. He has foster brothers and sisters from time to time... You should have seen the scary bull breed crawling on his tummy to get closer to the 15 week old lab puppy at training today... No doubt you would have been terrified for the welfare of the puppy... Lucky for us, his owner had a fit of the giggles watching a 26kg muscle mutt crawling up to her puppy... The lick the puppy wore under its chin, lifted him off the ground... For the record, I do take offense at people who know nothing about my dog stating that he and his entire type of breed should be eradicated... Wouldn't you take offense if someone suggested that your breed of choice be PTS.. I doubt there are many that could sit there and state with 100% confidence that their breed of choice is totally harmless... Back on topic again, has anyone heard any more about the other little dog involved and if he is alright? until there is muscle and fines sufficient to make sure people actually make sure their dogs ARE under control and not loose this will occur over and over again. one dog can attack, put them in numbers and the gentlest can become something you never imagined possible, even human packs are terrifying. never forget the bondi riots.... its not just dogs in a pack that are dangerous regarless of breed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asal Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 The headline says the guide dog was killed by pit bulls. It wasn't, it ran into the road and was killed by a car. Of course it shouldn't have happened, it's tragic for everyone involved, but sensationalism is stupid. It ran onto the road because it was being attacked by the other dogs. So they are directly responsible for the dogs death. The only thing sensational about the title is the reference to pit bulls. The headline actually says "Guide dog killed after being ambushed by pit bulls in Bellfield in Melbourne's northeast" This is true, but what if it was something else that had startled the dog? It wouldn't even have made the news then. Say it was a windy day and there was a tarp that suddenly moved, the dog startled and jumped into the road. My dogs have almost done this on several occasions. What if it had been a golden that suddenly jumped out from behind a corner and startled the dog? Other than the pit bull type dogs involved, it's not even worth reporting. True, but the guide dog was not startled by anything else but 4 dogs, pit bulls or other breed, it doesn't matter what. The fact is that these dogs attacked and mauled a cocker spaniel and then chased the guide dog onto the road. What would have happened if the blind owner was with the guide dog, and not his brother at the time? Why are you making excuses for these brutes whatever their breed happens to be? maybe it was their dogs that did the "startle" ? The behaviour of the 2 attacked dogs is irrelevant. They were on lead, the attacking dog were off lead. The responsibility lies with the attacking dogs owner. Are you saying that the guide dog and the cocker were "asking for it" somehow? curious isnt it, same mentality towards rape victums? no dogs should be allowed to be loose unleashed. full stop. until thats a chargable offence and enforced we will continue to see such tragedie's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Asal I am as disgusted at this attack as everyone else. My first post in here was to say these animals should be put down and the owners held responsible and have the full force of the law thrust upon them... But again, this thread has turned into a bull breed bashing thread.. I will defend my breed of choice forever. I am a responsible owner and there are plenty of us out there (i dare say more responsible bull breed owners than irresponsible ones).. My pet should not be killed because some people dont like his breeding and some morons don't do the right thing with their dogs. Eradicating a whole breed solves nothing. The morons will choose another breed and it will all start again.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asal Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 (edited) Asal I am as disgusted at this attack as everyone else. My first post in here was to say these animals should be put down and the owners held responsible and have the full force of the law thrust upon them... But again, this thread has turned into a bull breed bashing thread.. I will defend my breed of choice forever. I am a responsible owner and there are plenty of us out there (i dare say more responsible bull breed owners than irresponsible ones).. My pet should not be killed because some people dont like his breeding and some morons don't do the right thing with their dogs. Eradicating a whole breed solves nothing. The morons will choose another breed and it will all start again.. im sorry if what i said came across as bull bashing, i meant it as the ego centric creatures attracted to what they perceive as an extension of their egos. regardless of which breed is in favour at the time, i knew the pitty would attact these types in droves and time has bourne that out unfortunately, the mentality has selecting for the most savage for future generations a priority, again regardless of the breed of choice. my family had cattledogs before i was born. when there was a litter, the number of people who ask "how savage are the parents" is proof posative this mentality exists all right. a true cattle dog is not savage. it guards its family and their belongings and doesnt go on alert until family or belongings are under threat. never forget at the tip one day, two chaps were walking by the truck, jody was sitting in the passenger seat looking through the open window interestedly watching proceedings, they suddenly realised she was watching them, they suddenly did a huge circle well away from the truck. she hadnt done anything but look at them. huge difference. my parents would NEVER leave two running loose, knowing one would egg the other on to mischief . ALSO all fences were totlly secure, none of their dogs were ever permitted to roam of the property. its good manners and GOOD SENSE. WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO BOTH? P.S.love saffies Edited August 11, 2012 by asal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs Rusty Bucket Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 no dogs should be allowed to be loose unleashed. full stop. WTF? There goes all dog sports including greyhound racing, herding on the farm, and we won't need to waste any money on dog parks or dog off lead areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puppoochi Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 no dogs should be allowed to be loose unleashed. full stop. WTF? There goes all dog sports including greyhound racing, herding on the farm, and we won't need to waste any money on dog parks or dog off lead areas. I think she means roaming at large. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geo Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 This story really has very little to do with BSL. Why does every dog attack story have to turn into a BSL discussion. Pitbulls are just as capable and likely as any other breed or breed cross to be involved in a dog attack. You would think that some people here believe that pitbulls are incapable of being aggressive at all. I do not see the point in defending or trivialising the actions of the dogs involved. Obviously they caused injury to the cocker and were serious enough to scare a highly trained assistance dog into fleeing onto a road. All dogs, especially DA ones have no business being offlead and roaming in a public street. The whole incident could have been prevented if the owner had kept the dogs on lead and under control I don't think anyone has this notion. I do believe APBT breed fanciers are fed up with the "wipe them out" comments, and I don't think any of the comments are defending the dogs in question. What bull breed owners want is the media to stop shouting PITBULL at every oppurtunity, the circumstances of the attack to reported accurately to stop the scourge of negativity surrounding their breeds. What I've taken from most of the posters who are anti BSL, is that these dogs could've been prevented from being in this situation and it is entirely the owners fault, especially if he knew his dogs were an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Even if the dog in question is actually a pitbull? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Has is been reported yet how the dogs came to be out? Probably need to know that before the owners can be blamed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodoggies2001 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 The headline says the guide dog was killed by pit bulls. It wasn't, it ran into the road and was killed by a car. Of course it shouldn't have happened, it's tragic for everyone involved, but sensationalism is stupid. It ran onto the road because it was being attacked by the other dogs. So they are directly responsible for the dogs death. The only thing sensational about the title is the reference to pit bulls. The headline actually says "Guide dog killed after being ambushed by pit bulls in Bellfield in Melbourne's northeast" This is true, but what if it was something else that had startled the dog? It wouldn't even have made the news then. Say it was a windy day and there was a tarp that suddenly moved, the dog startled and jumped into the road. My dogs have almost done this on several occasions. What if it had been a golden that suddenly jumped out from behind a corner and startled the dog? Other than the pit bull type dogs involved, it's not even worth reporting. True, but the guide dog was not startled by anything else but 4 dogs, pit bulls or other breed, it doesn't matter what. The fact is that these dogs attacked and mauled a cocker spaniel and then chased the guide dog onto the road. What would have happened if the blind owner was with the guide dog, and not his brother at the time? Why are you making excuses for these brutes whatever their breed happens to be? maybe it was their dogs that did the "startle" ? Sorry, I don't understand your logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 This story really has very little to do with BSL. Why does every dog attack story have to turn into a BSL discussion. Pitbulls are just as capable and likely as any other breed or breed cross to be involved in a dog attack. You would think that some people here believe that pitbulls are incapable of being aggressive at all. I do not see the point in defending or trivialising the actions of the dogs involved. Obviously they caused injury to the cocker and were serious enough to scare a highly trained assistance dog into fleeing onto a road. All dogs, especially DA ones have no business being offlead and roaming in a public street. The whole incident could have been prevented if the owner had kept the dogs on lead and under control I don't think anyone has this notion. I do believe APBT breed fanciers are fed up with the "wipe them out" comments, and I don't think any of the comments are defending the dogs in question. What bull breed owners want is the media to stop shouting PITBULL at every oppurtunity, the circumstances of the attack to reported accurately to stop the scourge of negativity surrounding their breeds. What I've taken from most of the posters who are anti BSL, is that these dogs could've been prevented from being in this situation and it is entirely the owners fault, especially if he knew his dogs were an issue. Pretty much how I feel, I can't speak for others though... If they were my dogs, they would have been taken directly to a vet to be PTS.. There is no excuse for the actions of these dogs (no matter what their breed/type).. Has is been reported yet how the dogs came to be out? Probably need to know that before the owners can be blamed. Jules, I don't think they got out. I recall reading something about the fact that the owner was walking his dogs and called his dogs back when they went for the victim and the other 2 dogs... Then when the dogs attacked the owner and another guy disappeared... Link to story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Jules, I don't think they got out. I recall reading something about the fact that the owner was walking his dogs and called his dogs back when they went for the victim and the other 2 dogs... Then when the dogs attacked the owner and another guy disappeared... Link to story If, as suggested previously, these were declared dangerous dogs, shouldn't they have been on lead and muzzled in public? I think there's also a particular collar they have to wear. That is, if they were actually declared dangerous dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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