Considering The Aftermath- Rehoming Dogs With Behavioural Problems

[SueM]

I despair at some rescue groups up my way, one for example was desperately begging for someone to take on a dog that was DA resource guarded and hated children and all animals. A large breed dog at that, one person offered and said she had a 5 yr old child, they said he will be ok Thankfully the person offering changed her mind, not sure if they ever did find anyone but I hope not!!!

[Greytmate]

A good post. I'd add extreme fear/lack of socialisation to that list too.

When I was testing we would do a startle test. The test was not whether the dog was startled (we would give it a fright), but how long that dog took to recover.

Lack of socialisation isn't a behaviour it's a cause. All we can test for is behaviour.

I think you make some good points about how experience with dogs does not mean a person is equipped to deal with serious problem behaviour.

[Greytmate]

Cosmolo, I know you can't discuss specifics, but have you ever had a client that you thought had grounds to take action against a rescuer for placing a faulty dog with them?

People get attached to their dogs, invest time in working with them and don't want to admit failure. But surely the rescue should bear responsibility for putting a family in that situation.

It seems to me that the rescues that do it really badly never really have to deal with the aftermath of what they do. The dog is either bounced or the new owner gets a whole lot of hard work and heartbreak.

[aussielover]

Obviously rehoming a dog with a serious behavioural issue like the ones mentioned is undesirable and should not be done.

Most of these are behaviours that would become evident in an experienced foster home, but there are some that go undetected despite foster care, behavioural assessment etc. I think separation anxiety is a problem which could quite easily go undetected in a foster home or at the pound. We have had a few cases where the dog has been fine at the pound or in foster care as they are surrounded by people and/or dogs most of the time anyway. Unfortunately the new owners have had to fork out $1000's on medications and specialist behaviour consults etc. In some cases the rescue group has agreed to cover these costs.

Even dogs without serious behavioural issues need a lot of effort to find a suitable home. I also think some groups need to make more effort in placing dogs into appropriate home. There was a family that asked for a "cuddly lap dog" and was given a young, active kelpie??? A young active woman wanted a highly trainable, obedient, jogging companion that could be taken to dog parks and the like and was given a dog aggressive greyhound ??? Clearly the needs of dogs and owners were severely mismatched in these cases and the dogs ended up being rehomed (no help from the original rescue) and the owners put off owning another dog due to the trauma of having to give up/ rehome their previous dog, which even though was unsuitable, they still became attached to.

I do not agree with the attitude of getting dogs into new homes as soon as possible no matter the suitability to the new home It doesn't do the dogs or future owners any good.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

I shudder when I read ads that say "XXX is very shy, she needs lots of love and care to come out of her shell". It takes skill, knowledge and nerves of steel to safely rehabilitate a dog with extreme fear, even if they don't exhibit aggression.

If all it took were love, Lucy would be better by now.

This really struck a chord with me. Really beautifully put.

[koalathebear]

I think you make some good points about how experience with dogs does not mean a person is equipped to deal with serious problem behaviour.

Absolutely. For fostering we are sticking with the breed that we know - or at least feel most comfortable with. Also, even though I feel like I have quite a bit of experience working with dogs now, I am absolutely not equipped to deal with an aggressive dog so we will not foster any dog that has not been confirmed as being friendly with other dogs.

greytmate - I know what you mean about the different categories of 'issues'. I guess my ongoing anxiety as such, is because I can see that with my foster, he might have been rescued at just the right time before his potential issues actually became issues. For instance, if he didn't have my dogs telling him to get back in line and not get in their face - he might do that with another dog when he's older with terrible consequences. If he'd been fostered in a home without other dogs or without dogs who were willing to tell him off, this particular trait might not have been identified.

Random question completely unrelated to my own dog (who isn't mouthy in the slightest) - what about a poorly socialised dog that is mouthy and nips people/doesn't like to be touched and resorts to biting. If the foster carer can train this out of the dog and not put it in situations where it doesn't feel pressured to bite - is the dog rehomeable or is the predisposition always there to bite when things don't go its way?

[SkySoaringMagpie]

SSM - I think finding the right home is the really hard part. There are very few truly skilled trainers out there looking for problem dogs to rehabilitate. And if they are, they normally have one already.

Many people underestimate the dedication that it takes to look after a troubled dog. I know many people who have owned dogs all their life - they'd call themselves experienced dog owners - who have given me absolutely awful, downright dangerous, advice about how to rehabilitate my dog ("she's scared of kids, just let her play with my kids"). That said, I'm sure they'd sound like wonderful applicants ("owned mini schnauzers for 20 years", "trained dogs for 10+ years", semi-retired, fully fenced yard etc)

Sometimes experienced homes are the wrong homes because they think they understand dogs, but they don't understand problem dogs. My Dad has owned dogs for over 40 years, but he struggled with my sister's crazy chi because she wasn't a "normal" dog. He was far too proud to consult a behaviourist.

I definitely agree with this, and in fact when we were having difficulty with a severe aggression problem ourselves it was what decided us to PTS rather than rehome. I was surprised by the number of people who felt that we could have done something else and who genuinely believe that no dog is unrecoverable. As we've already discussed in this thread, PTS can provoke strong reactions from armchair experts who don't have to spend the money or the time or the emotional energy. So we're all under a subtle and not so subtle pressure not to go down that path.

The reason I haven't taken that course with the current rescue is that I'm not dealing with aggression and my assessment is that with a home familiar with the breed or another primitive breed can easily manage her. Perhaps something else that is going on here is that people with some breeds already expect to have proofed the yard to a certain standard (Basenji, Saluki, Sibe etc). We've had lots of inquiries over the years from people who thought they could just do as they did with their old cattledog and the Saluki would stick by the house. But not even AWR would home to no fences I would have thought?

Also agree about dog people not being created equal, there are lots of reasons for it but just as the charming person on the phone is sometimes a nightmare and the socially awkward person turns out to be great, we homecheck anyway, no matter what their resume. Perhaps being a show person this is a lesson I've learned already, there are some people who've been in dogs for years who just get rid of anything that can't cope with their hamfisted efforts. And that's the flip side of this coin, we have to find balance. I mean, part of the reason some people want a rescue is to contribute to society. So I don't see a problem with asking for some effort, providing the person understands exactly before they take it on, and I am confident they do, what will be required. Severe behavioural problems don't fall under "some effort" tho'.

[Greytmate]

greytmate - I know what you mean about the different categories of 'issues'. I guess my ongoing anxiety as such, is because I can see that with my foster, he might have been rescued at just the right time before his potential issues actually became issues. For instance, if he didn't have my dogs telling him to get back in line and not get in their face - he might do that with another dog when he's older with terrible consequences. If he'd been fostered in a home without other dogs or without dogs who were willing to tell him off, this particular trait might not have been identified.

What you describe sounds very simple, but the complex interactions between the rescue dog and your own show that the rescue dog has an underlying nature of resilience rather than anxiousness. It isn't just about what the foster dog learns about getting in other dogs faces, it's about being able to slot in to an existing social heirachy and feel comfortable. There is no guarantee that the rescue dog will never get in another dog's face after being adopted, or that there will never be terrible consequences. But there is good evidence to show that the dog is suitable to be re homed into a home with other well-adjusted dogs and an owner who is able to meet all their requirements.

Random question completely unrelated to my own dog (who isn't mouthy in the slightest) - what about a poorly socialised dog that is mouthy and nips people/doesn't like to be touched and resorts to biting. If the foster carer can train this out of the dog and not put it in situations where it doesn't feel pressured to bite - is the dog rehomeable or is the predisposition always there to bite when things don't go its way?

The predisposition is there. The behaviour has been learnt and cannot be unlearnt in a practical sense.

A dog that doesn't like to be touched might be considered unsuitable to be sold as a pet, as pets are generally something that are meant to be touched frequently. Would you like to adopt a dog that didn't like you touching it?

[Cosmolo]

Greytmate- i have had a number of clients that i believed could have taken action of some kind. But people opt not to- they either return the dog and be done with it OR they feel an obligation to persist, even in situations where the dogs pose a real and serious threat. And there is never any accountability for those that rehomed the dog. Some rehome the dog again once it's been returned for aggression issues as well.

There is a difference between the excited mouthy dog (which is still an issue) and the dog that mouths then attempts to bite as a means to get someone not to touch them.

I was hoping you would post Megan and i agree with what it takes to rehab a fearful dog.

When an unexpected issue crops up- i have NO issue when a person or group can demonstrate that they took every reasonable step to assess and responsibly rehome the dog. Sometimes, the unexpected happens. BUT i can count those situations on one hand. I have lost track of the number of situations where there was no or extremely poor assessment and everyone suffers as a result.

[Greytmate]

If this was an inanimate product we were talking about, we wouldn't need to have this conversation. Quality control is a legislative requirement in many cases, and even where it isn't we have consumer protection in our country that forces business to take responsibility for quality and safety. And even if we didn't have that, it makes business sense to have a form of quality control. And even if we didn't care about growing the business of rescue, shouldn't we just care about the happiness of people who want to share their lives with a pet? Doesn't everyone deserve a nice dog?

There is a pet overpopulation problem in Australia, and people selling pets that don't suit the requirements and expectations of the owner are a leading cause of this. So frustrating that the 'rescue' people that are contributing to the problem portray themselves as a solution. It isn't right. Some of the threads in the rescue forum leave me amazed that such dodgy dealings are going on and these people are receiving support from others who don't know any better.

[megan_]

Greytmate, I think the problem is that it is very hard to define "quality control" when it comes to a dog - or at least, there are some grey lines. Unless a rescue group had a behavioural report that said "this dog is aggressive" how can you prove the dog was a risk? I even read on DOL rescuers saying things like "The dog exhibited no aggression in the kennels" and there is an implication that the new owners/fosters have either done something wrong or are lying. But anyone who knows anything about dog behaviour knows that a dog can shut down in a kennel and what you see isn't what you get.

If Lucy wound up in a pound now (she wouldn't, she goes to heaven with me) I'm sure she would pass most behavioural assessments done by well meaning volunteers. I'm 99.99% sure she wouldn't exhibit any aggression at all as she wouldn't be comfortable enough to stand up to someone. She would be scared, tremble etc. However, if the assessment was done by a women with treats who was dressed in training type gear, she would be very well behaved, approach the person and sit beautifully for a treat. She would only take it when given permission.

She could pass a startle test as she recovers very well if I act like it is okay. In fact, she recovers far better than my non-reactive boy. She lets me handle her food as well.

She would come across as a shy but sweet dog. If she is in working mode (ie the assessor has food) she will work beautifully for a long time. She'll drop, sit, walk nicely on a loose leash etc. I get compliments on her behaviour all the time! I take her to agility and obedience she works off leash safely with other dogs and strangers around.

Even in a foster environment, unless she was there for a long time (long enough to feel territorial and comfortable enough to defend herself) and she was exposed to something that scared her (eg a stranger staying overnight) she would come across as a very sweet little dog. She is just that 99% of the time. She has been fine with people in my home for days,they come out a door when she wasn't expecting it and BAM, she is in "fight for my life" mode. She doesn't give a warning, she goes straight into attack mode. It took a chair for my sister to defend herself (the first and last time she had a go at an adult) and even then that didn't stop her.

How on earth can you safely test for that? Should timid dogs be rehomed (my answer based on what I know now is most probably not, unless they are a trainer)?

[Cosmolo]

Megan- Lucy would be unlikely to pass our behavioural assessment (not done by us as she knows us of course). Alot of people think their dog would fail an assessment when they wouldn't or that they would pass when they would not. There is a lack of understanding about what a quality behavioural assessment is and is not capable of.

And this is part of the point- who is conducting assessments? Do they have any training? Do they enlist the help of a professional when they are unsure? Those that do significantly reduce their risk of rehoming unsuitable dogs.

[Cosmolo]

Just looking through some of the urgent rescue threads. Some descriptions concern me greatly- so emotive and such little real behavioural information.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I don't agree that timid dogs shouldn't be able to be rehomed, to the right home - timidity doesn't always equate to fear biting etc, i think it's really important for anyone assessing dogs to have a good understanding of breeds and how they may behave in a shelter environment.

I rescue Italian Greyhounds (as well as other dogs) and they have often been euth'd - especially at the RSPCA - for being timid. A more loving and gentle dog you simply couldn't find but they don't cope well in kennel environments nor with strangers. They aren't biters but due to their timidity and how they behave when frightened, they don't come across well.

When I worked at a shelter, I used to pick the timid dogs to come home with me because I don't have kids and I always own gentle dogs and these dogs would come out of their shell eventually. I was always involved in rehoming and knew what home they'd suit generally - mostly one without screaming kids. Some were fine with older children, it really just depended.

Of course I've had the odd fear biter and they didn't get rehomed, they stayed with me.

[Guest Ams]

Some weeks I feel like I am Dr Death. I am the last chance for the dogs who come to me. If I am not confident with them I will not return them to their owners (and they are made aware of this before I take them) and I will not pass them to another rescue. I have taken a dog from an organisation that temp tests (failed on medical not behavioural for them) but it failed on behavioural for me in a home environment after a few weeks. I've become less and less tolerant of certain behaviours as experience has taught me a few lessons.

I am not a qualified trainer or behaviourist but I have access to both should I need advice. I'm not perfect but I gauge each dog on the premise "Do I want to lose my house if I get sued for the sake of keeping this dog alive." It may sound cruel but it is the bench mark at the end of the day. If I am sitting on a fence as to whether to rehome or not then this is the question I ask myself. Sometimes I will say yes, or work further with the dog but for a lot of them I wont take the chance and they are pts.

I recently copped an absolute flogging on FB for euthanising a 40kg dog that could fit through a small cat door unscathed after trashing the interior of my house and clear 8 foot fences with absolutely no road sense. At the end of the day there was no way this dog could be kept safe from itself, as lovely a temperament as it had, it was not rehomeable.

My vet has often asked me why do I do their vetwork to later on euth the dog. My response is that the breed I rescue regularly have eye issues and I can't assess a dog that is in pain and can't see. It is only after they have had their surgeries and given recovery time that I can actually determine if the reactions are behavioural or medically induced behaviours. Some are, some arent.

[Cosmolo]

I don't have an issue at all with a dog that assesses in a shelter/ pound as timid going into experienced foster care for further assessment. Further assessment instead of the need for crossed fingers.

You have a really tough one Ams, thanks for sharing.

[Carlo11]

I think a large part of the problem is that foster carers are not really trained in how to assess problem behaviours and how to deal with them. When I see a dog in a pound I may wish to care for, I put my name on it and when its time is up I collect it.I have no formal training in behavioural assessment so im going on what the Pound Volunteers have said and a wing and a prayer.

In order to do my job thoroughly and adequately, I would love to see some training introduced on the realities of fostering. It is a lot of hard work and can often be quite stressful.

I enquired about fostering for the RSPCA recently and they have a training program one must complete before they start on everything from disease management to behavioural assessments of dogs.I was pleased at how thorough it seemed . ..as if all avenues were being covered.

[Nic.B]

Just looking through some of the urgent rescue threads. Some descriptions concern me greatly- so emotive and such little real behavioural information.

This is from this morning on Pound Rounds site. They had not met the dog. I have no words.

This group is your worst nightmare and should be dragged through evey court for what they have done to rescue dogs, families, their pets and their children.

"Do I look a bit fuzzy? I guess at age 84 we all get a bit fuzzy don't we dear. I hope I am not inconveniencing you too much dear but I am having a problem. I am spritely - we staffys live til we are 140 so at 84 I'm just a loving spring chicken with a bit of sunshine in my step. but here is my problem that I am hoping a few Facebook friends can help me out with. You see they are going to kill me. Now I know your Aunty melody have never been the prettiest girl at the dance and I have never been the smartest girl or the most popular, but that's because I thought all I had to be was a good dog. Somewhere along the way they changed the rules and I got downsized into a kill pound and in a couple of hours ol Aunty Melody gets jabbed with a green needle that will kill me.

Aside from not knowing at all why, because I was always a good dog, I am really hoping this note reaches you in time to help me. God love you for taking time to read this and care about me. Any help you can provide would be sincerely (really really) appreciated.

Warmest Regards,

Aunty Melody"

This was written for a 12 year old Staffy cross female this morning. She had a tumor on her leg.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Just looking through some of the urgent rescue threads. Some descriptions concern me greatly- so emotive and such little real behavioural information.

This is from this morning on Pound Rounds site. They had not met the dog. I have no words.

This group is your worst nightmare and should be dragged through evey court for what they have done to rescue dogs, families, their pets and their children.

"Do I look a bit fuzzy? I guess at age 84 we all get a bit fuzzy don't we dear. I hope I am not inconveniencing you too much dear but I am having a problem. I am spritely - we staffys live til we are 140 so at 84 I'm just a loving spring chicken with a bit of sunshine in my step. but here is my problem that I am hoping a few Facebook friends can help me out with. You see they are going to kill me. Now I know your Aunty melody have never been the prettiest girl at the dance and I have never been the smartest girl or the most popular, but that's because I thought all I had to be was a good dog. Somewhere along the way they changed the rules and I got downsized into a kill pound and in a couple of hours ol Aunty Melody gets jabbed with a green needle that will kill me.

Aside from not knowing at all why, because I was always a good dog, I am really hoping this note reaches you in time to help me. God love you for taking time to read this and care about me. Any help you can provide would be sincerely (really really) appreciated.

Warmest Regards,

Aunty Melody"

This was written for a 12 year old Staffy cross female this morning. She had a tumor on her leg.

Completely the wrong way to go about things.

[honeybun]

I have had people be aghast at rescues or shelters that put dogs with major issues to sleep, but when you ask what did they think was the alternative, these people say there will always be someone to take the dog despite the issues, but when you ask would they themselves take such a dog, they all instantly say NO, most emphatically.

This belief that irrespective of the issues that a dog has that there will always be a home found for the dog and that it should be kept caged for EVER, whilst this home is sought is not helpful, and meanwhile whilst resources are used on these unrehomeable dogs, good,well behaved completely rehomeable dogs are being put to sleep because there is no room or carers available.

It is a difficult situation but some people just believe if they make donations, they have resolved the matter, but the trouble it it takes more than money being thrown at the problem of dogs being saved for the sake of it, and being moved from pounds to carers to new homes, back to carers etc etc

Some people rescue these dogs despite them exhibiting bad behavioural traits, quickly rehome them, and then feel good about themselves for "saving a life", with little or no regard for the fact that they may have passed on a problem dog to an inexperienced owner and that this dog may pose a risk to the community, human and animal.