Considering The Aftermath- Rehoming Dogs With Behavioural Problems

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

If a dog has come from an unknown source or a pound, 2 to 3 weeks would be a minimum quarantine period anyways, no?

I foster puppies, so a couple of weeks minimum is usually sufficient to sum up what they are like, and start rectifying some minor issues (if they have any) - but with older dogs that have been exposed to many more experiences and thusly capable of having varying reactions to various stimuli, I'd like to see them in care for a minimum of 4 weeks - if only to have time to expose said dogs to as many stimuli as possible.

Anyone who says they can be completely sure of a dog's temperament after knowing it for a week (or less) is kidding themselves.

I don't agree with listing/advertising a dog for adoption as soon as it comes into care either. But that's just me.

Rescues with a revolving door policy in order to "save" as many animals as possible may need a rethink IMHO.

T.

I agree with T. I rescue purebred Italian Greyhounds as well as other dogs. Generally the Iggies are pretty standard in temperament (sweet and gentle) but there are still variations in habits etc. We don't get them in and churn them out. We often have a waiting list but Iggies are pretty slow to learn anything - it's generally 2 weeks to learn a doggie door and toilet training and then they need more practice! The Iggy I've got here now is far more shy and nervous than the others I've had. He will need a very breed experienced and accepting home - he's spent 5 days in a crate - he can come out but he doesn't want to, very often and if I move in the wrong way he shoots back into the crate. He does come out when I'm not home as I come home to lots of poo and wee everywhere.

He's obviously had a rotten home without much love and attention. It's almost impossible to correct that after several years but it will take him ages to learn to trust me and so he will be the same in a new home.

I've had many, many foster dogs and I can't stand seeing dogs on Petrescue, fresh from the pound, sometimes even using the pound shot within 24 hours of being released. You cannot possibly know enough about them at that point - who has truly had time to assess them with children, cats, other dogs (all sizes), people, different situations etc. You couldn't have housetrained them within that time either - most dogs from the pound are not housetrained - it's irresponsible and not fair to the dog or prospective owners.

[OutOfSightHound]

If a dog has come from an unknown source or a pound, 2 to 3 weeks would be a minimum quarantine period anyways, no?

I foster puppies, so a couple of weeks minimum is usually sufficient to sum up what they are like, and start rectifying some minor issues (if they have any) - but with older dogs that have been exposed to many more experiences and thusly capable of having varying reactions to various stimuli, I'd like to see them in care for a minimum of 4 weeks - if only to have time to expose said dogs to as many stimuli as possible.

Anyone who says they can be completely sure of a dog's temperament after knowing it for a week (or less) is kidding themselves.

I don't agree with listing/advertising a dog for adoption as soon as it comes into care either. But that's just me.

Rescues with a revolving door policy in order to "save" as many animals as possible may need a rethink IMHO.

T.

I agree with T. I rescue purebred Italian Greyhounds as well as other dogs. Generally the Iggies are pretty standard in temperament (sweet and gentle) but there are still variations in habits etc. We don't get them in and churn them out. We often have a waiting list but Iggies are pretty slow to learn anything - it's generally 2 weeks to learn a doggie door and toilet training and then they need more practice! The Iggy I've got here now is far more shy and nervous than the others I've had. He will need a very breed experienced and accepting home - he's spent 5 days in a crate - he can come out but he doesn't want to, very often and if I move in the wrong way he shoots back into the crate. He does come out when I'm not home as I come home to lots of poo and wee everywhere.

He's obviously had a rotten home without much love and attention. It's almost impossible to correct that after several years but it will take him ages to learn to trust me and so he will be the same in a new home.

I've had many, many foster dogs and I can't stand seeing dogs on Petrescue, fresh from the pound, sometimes even using the pound shot within 24 hours of being released. You cannot possibly know enough about them at that point - who has truly had time to assess them with children, cats, other dogs (all sizes), people, different situations etc. You couldn't have housetrained them within that time either - most dogs from the pound are not housetrained - it's irresponsible and not fair to the dog or prospective owners.

Hmm totally agree... I think Rescues that ask for their carers to get a profile on petrescue ASAP after the dog has arrived is asking for trouble. I think that a dog should be assessed more closely. Some can have some real surprises. I know of a dog that hated men in beards and glasses but loved everyone else and would be super approachable. Though it would turn banana's if someone in glasses and a beard (ZZ top like) appraoched. It's stuff like this that catches you unaware and can't be found out in a few days or a week. In researching a new Rescue to volunteer for I found that some of the really great groups have 6 weeks minimum and in that time you have to expose the dog to certain things and report on it. The carer fills out a check list with a rating on the dogs reaction. Over the period in forster care they apply the stimuli a few times to guage the reaction from indifferent to anxious etc. I think this is a great way to go for assessing dogs for new homes. You would have a far better idea of the dog this way.

[skuzy]

what if the rescue group has a close working relationship with the kennel/pound/other that it sources the dogs from? could you trust the assessment passed on from them?

or even assessments provided by private surrenders?

[tdierikx]

what if the rescue group has a close working relationship with the kennel/pound/other that it sources the dogs from? could you trust the assessment passed on from them?

or even assessments provided by private surrenders?

The prudent thing is to assess the animal for yourself before deciding on any temperament or health issues... sometimes pound staff can either get it wrong, or the animal will display differently outside of the pound environment.

Staff assessments are a guideline to how the animal appears in the pound - nothing more...

T.

[Greytmate]

what if the rescue group has a close working relationship with the kennel/pound/other that it sources the dogs from? could you trust the assessment passed on from them?

or even assessments provided by private surrenders?

The preliminary assessment done on dogs before they are accepted into rescue is a behaviour assessment, not a temperament assessment. It is to record how the dog behaves when put in certain situations. From that, it is possible to gain an insight as to whether this dog is likely to act undesirably in some situations it might be faced with in future. It can rule out dogs that show dangerous behaviour, and help rescue gauge how 'easy' the dog is going to be to manage in foster care. But it isn't foolproof, because like people, dogs might feel and act differently at different times.

Then while dogs are in foster care, over weeks their true temperament emerges and can be recorded. Depending on what the carer does and whether they follow a formal program, all sorts of things can be learned about the dog, and the dog will get basic training to improve its manners generally. The better the standard of foster care, the easier it is to match a dog to the right new family.

Breeds differ, but in greyhounds, you need two weeks before the dog is comfortable and settled enough in a home to show its normal temperament. If the dog is not settled within that time then a deeper investigation needs to be done into the dog and the carer's management.

Part of responsible and ethical rescue is documenting behaviour observations at all stages. The history needs to be asked for and recorded from the person surrendering the dog, the behaviour assessment needs to be recorded, and any undesirable behaviour while the dog is in foster care also needs to be recorded. All of this history needs to be made available to the adopter. If there is any aggression towards people or other serious problems known, the dog should be withdrawn from sale. Disclosure of issues to the adopter does not limit the rescue's liability for adopting out a dangerous dog.

[CBL]

what if the rescue group has a close working relationship with the kennel/pound/other that it sources the dogs from? could you trust the assessment passed on from them?

or even assessments provided by private surrenders?

The preliminary assessment done on dogs before they are accepted into rescue is a behaviour assessment, not a temperament assessment. It is to record how the dog behaves when put in certain situations. From that, it is possible to gain an insight as to whether this dog is likely to act undesirably in some situations it might be faced with in future. It can rule out dogs that show dangerous behaviour, and help rescue gauge how 'easy' the dog is going to be to manage in foster care. But it isn't foolproof, because like people, dogs might feel and act differently at different times.

Then while dogs are in foster care, over weeks their true temperament emerges and can be recorded. Depending on what the carer does and whether they follow a formal program, all sorts of things can be learned about the dog, and the dog will get basic training to improve its manners generally. The better the standard of foster care, the easier it is to match a dog to the right new family.

Breeds differ, but in greyhounds, you need two weeks before the dog is comfortable and settled enough in a home to show its normal temperament. If the dog is not settled within that time then a deeper investigation needs to be done into the dog and the carer's management.

Part of responsible and ethical rescue is documenting behaviour observations at all stages. The history needs to be asked for and recorded from the person surrendering the dog, the behaviour assessment needs to be recorded, and any undesirable behaviour while the dog is in foster care also needs to be recorded. All of this history needs to be made available to the adopter. If there is any aggression towards people or other serious problems known, the dog should be withdrawn from sale. Disclosure of issues to the adopter does not limit the rescue's liability for adopting out a dangerous dog.

I totally agree with the above

As Greytmate knows, we adopted our Patch through GAP Qld (though was a slightly strange circumstance). When we adopted him we got his foster care book - which was filled out by each of his foster carers (3) and documented how he responded in a variety of situations (to the vacuum cleaner, to other dogs, being left alone etc). It is such a great resource. It showed how they had assessed his behaviour and that each home exposed him to similar and also different situations (one home had caged birds for example). I admit I also love going through the book every so often and looking at how he behaves now and how that compares to when he was in care. In most cases it is spot on with what he is like now ('has difficultly distinguishing concrete from grass ').

Edited September 21, 2012 by CBL

[skuzy]

thanks so much to everyone for the informative posts!

It has been really helpful to us and where we are in the adoption process at the moment. We've found a dog we're very interested in from a rescue group's website i used to browse alot on… time to see how the rescuegroup stands up against some of the issues discussed here.

[kayla1]

what if the rescue group has a close working relationship with the kennel/pound/other that it sources the dogs from? could you trust the assessment passed on from them?

or even assessments provided by private surrenders?

The preliminary assessment done on dogs before they are accepted into rescue is a behaviour assessment, not a temperament assessment. It is to record how the dog behaves when put in certain situations. From that, it is possible to gain an insight as to whether this dog is likely to act undesirably in some situations it might be faced with in future. It can rule out dogs that show dangerous behaviour, and help rescue gauge how 'easy' the dog is going to be to manage in foster care. But it isn't foolproof, because like people, dogs might feel and act differently at different times.

Then while dogs are in foster care, over weeks their true temperament emerges and can be recorded. Depending on what the carer does and whether they follow a formal program, all sorts of things can be learned about the dog, and the dog will get basic training to improve its manners generally. The better the standard of foster care, the easier it is to match a dog to the right new family.

Breeds differ, but in greyhounds, you need two weeks before the dog is comfortable and settled enough in a home to show its normal temperament. If the dog is not settled within that time then a deeper investigation needs to be done into the dog and the carer's management.

Part of responsible and ethical rescue is documenting behaviour observations at all stages. The history needs to be asked for and recorded from the person surrendering the dog, the behaviour assessment needs to be recorded, and any undesirable behaviour while the dog is in foster care also needs to be recorded. All of this history needs to be made available to the adopter. If there is any aggression towards people or other serious problems known, the dog should be withdrawn from sale. Disclosure of issues to the adopter does not limit the rescue's liability for adopting out a dangerous dog.

I totally agree with the above

As Greytmate knows, we adopted our Patch through GAP Qld (though was a slightly strange circumstance). When we adopted him we got his foster care book - which was filled out by each of his foster carers (3) and documented how he responded in a variety of situations (to the vacuum cleaner, to other dogs, being left alone etc). It is such a great resource. It showed how they had assessed his behaviour and that each home exposed him to similar and also different situations (one home had caged birds for example). I admit I also love going through the book every so often and looking at how he behaves now and how that compares to when he was in care. In most cases it is spot on with what he is like now ('has difficultly distinguishing concrete from grass ').

The foster care book is a great idea.

[Everythings Shiny]

I haven't read the full thread but I wanted to share the story of my dog Serenity-Jayne.

She was one of my first rescue foster dogs who initially was brilliantly behaved, just a little hyper (Typical Kelpie). I held off letting the group I was with advertise her as I was toying with the idea of keeping her as I fell in love with her personality. Fast forward a few weeks and suddenly the "true" behaviours started coming out as she settled in more. Excessive/Chronic nuisance barking, dog aggression and severe hyper activity (this dog can go all day and all night and still be bouncing out of her skin - we have a farm and have tried many times to wear her out without success) After trying so many different tactics with her, my mother and I made the decision that she was staying with us permanently, other people would not cope with her. I love her despite her problems, but there isn't a day that goes past that I don't wish she would not be such a problem child. I honestly believe she was dumped on the roadside because of these issues, and while I don't like the fact that she was dumped, I can understand why they got rid of her (I just wish they'd done it differently). She's the sweetest lil girl, but she is a nightmare as well, which is what makes it hard about her.

She has caused me so much heartache, and I've shed so many tears over this dog, but she has a home with me for life and I won't have her PTS until either her behaviour worsens dramatically (she's pretty stable now, I know what to expect) or its time to have her PTS for medical reasons.

I would never rehome this dog to anyone, no matter how much they wanted her.

I think sometimes, rescue needs to think about the chances of the dog being returned or PTS down the track due to the behaviours that they are displaying. If we weren't in the position to keep Serenity-Jayne, I would have her PTS, it wouldn't be fair on her to be passed around from pillar to post because I couldn't make that hard call. JMHO

Edited September 26, 2012 by Everythings Shiny

[Zug Zug]

My girl Zamba is a bit like that. Very challenging, a huge character. Love her to bits.

She has been with us now for almost 12 years. At 13 - 13.5 years old, she's still pretty hyper. Although these days she does pause to sleep for longer periods as well.

God love her - I have never had any illusions why she ended up in the pound.

[skuzy]

thanks again for all the replies...

we've finaly met the dog... im no professional dog assessment analyst (or whatever the correct term is)... but the dog seems very very relaxed and placid... didnt respond to me grabbing its paws, checking its teeth, followed my lead on a quick walk with random changes in direction.

having said that.. it has had very very limited time with the rescue group..who could only pass on feedback received from the kennel the dog was taken from...no idea if stray or private surrender...only rough idea on age...almost a 'what you see is what you get' kinda vibe because no guarantees could be placed on dogs behaviour later down track (fair enough?)..

well we took the decision to wait a few more weeks and see how the dog goes (assuming he isnt rescued before then) and in light of some other posts here, i think it is the right decision.

[OutOfSightHound]

Ok the former rescue i volunteered for now has a dangerous dog posted on Pet Rescue. This dog although young has bitten the face of two children and shows serious dog on dog agression issues and it has been surrendered again due to this problem. These people don't understand that these behaviours are only going to get worse and more dangerous as the dog gets older as it wants to herd everything up! It bites ankles hard which is bearable as a pup but is horrible as an adult dog. If you dont move where it wants it bites harder and harder till you do!

[Nekhbet]

Ok the former rescue i volunteered for now has a dangerous dog posted on Pet Rescue. This dog although young has bitten the face of two children and shows serious dog on dog agression issues and it has been surrendered again due to this problem. These people don't understand that these behaviours are only going to get worse and more dangerous as the dog gets older as it wants to herd everything up! It bites ankles hard which is bearable as a pup but is horrible as an adult dog. If you dont move where it wants it bites harder and harder till you do!

Who assessed the dog in the first place?

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

If it is a PR dog then the answer will be nobody.

[OutOfSightHound]

Ok the former rescue i volunteered for now has a dangerous dog posted on Pet Rescue. This dog although young has bitten the face of two children and shows serious dog on dog agression issues and it has been surrendered again due to this problem. These people don't understand that these behaviours are only going to get worse and more dangerous as the dog gets older as it wants to herd everything up! It bites ankles hard which is bearable as a pup but is horrible as an adult dog. If you dont move where it wants it bites harder and harder till you do!

Who assessed the dog in the first place?

No one it was a private surrender straight into foster care. The dog never had a temprement test or anything. All it had was notes from the orginal owner. The orginal owner had tried their best with this dog. It's evident that temprement played a big part in this dogs problems because even with a very experienced person this dog was still nipping and bitting to push people where it wanted them and baiting other dogs into fighting with it. Its first foster carer recommened it be PTS but they just took the dog off this carer and gave it to another and just stopped communicating with him. This person also knows their stuff so why they didn't listen I don't know.

Edited November 15, 2012 by OutOfSightHound

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Ok the former rescue i volunteered for now has a dangerous dog posted on Pet Rescue. This dog although young has bitten the face of two children and shows serious dog on dog agression issues and it has been surrendered again due to this problem. These people don't understand that these behaviours are only going to get worse and more dangerous as the dog gets older as it wants to herd everything up! It bites ankles hard which is bearable as a pup but is horrible as an adult dog. If you dont move where it wants it bites harder and harder till you do!

Who assessed the dog in the first place?

No one it was a private surrender straight into foster care. The dog never had a temprement test or anything. All it had was notes from the orginal owner. The orginal owner had tried their best with this dog. It's evident that temprement played a big part in this dogs problems because even with a very experienced person this dog was still nipping and bitting to push people where it wanted them and baiting other dogs into fighting with it. Its first foster carer recommened it be PTS but they just took the dog off this carer and gave it to another and just stopped communicating with him. This person also knows their stuff so why they didn't listen I don't know.

That is appalling and frightening. For some, it is about life at all costs - even if by saving that life they are going to put others in danger. Totally unacceptable. They are completely irresponsible and it should be reported to the QLD DLG before a child loses it's eye or worse.

[Guest muttrus]

Ok the former rescue i volunteered for now has a dangerous dog posted on Pet Rescue. This dog although young has bitten the face of two children and shows serious dog on dog agression issues and it has been surrendered again due to this problem. These people don't understand that these behaviours are only going to get worse and more dangerous as the dog gets older as it wants to herd everything up! It bites ankles hard which is bearable as a pup but is horrible as an adult dog. If you dont move where it wants it bites harder and harder till you do!

Who assessed the dog in the first place?

No one it was a private surrender straight into foster care. The dog never had a temprement test or anything. All it had was notes from the orginal owner. The orginal owner had tried their best with this dog. It's evident that temprement played a big part in this dogs problems because even with a very experienced person this dog was still nipping and bitting to push people where it wanted them and baiting other dogs into fighting with it. Its first foster carer recommened it be PTS but they just took the dog off this carer and gave it to another and just stopped communicating with him. This person also knows their stuff so why they didn't listen I don't know.

That is appalling and frightening. For some, it is about life at all costs - even if by saving that life they are going to put others in danger. Totally unacceptable. They are completely irresponsible and it should be reported to the QLD DLG before a child loses it's eye or worse.

Funny I was asked to rehome a dog who after being assessed council declared dangerous a dog behavourist declared dangerous and by the owners own admission claimed the attacks were dangerous yet they didn"t want the dog pts I refused to rehome it as it had already attacked and killed live stock and attacked children I explained that a dog of such nature had no place in society and to rehome him knowing these things would be on my head so I suggested to pts BUT as the owners thought that was rude of me I WAS then blacklisted by some people and told for a rescue to be a good standards then each and every animal has a right to live and should do so.I did explain the situation and the council order etc I still refused to rehome the dog nor would I keep a dog of such nature around my kids The owners had said they came to me as other rescues had suggested the dog be pts I don"t believe in knowingly putting other peoples lives at risk the consequences of a dog attack can affect more than the dog and the attacked I believe I also have a duty of care to not only the animal in my care but the person that dog goes to.

I had a child here who screamed and cried as the result of my dog touching her ----Her mother told me she had been bitten by a dog and although they"ve tried she still has fear issues she did have a scar but given she is young the scar will fade but the emotional scars are the ones that will take alot longer to heal

[OutOfSightHound]

Ok the former rescue i volunteered for now has a dangerous dog posted on Pet Rescue. This dog although young has bitten the face of two children and shows serious dog on dog agression issues and it has been surrendered again due to this problem. These people don't understand that these behaviours are only going to get worse and more dangerous as the dog gets older as it wants to herd everything up! It bites ankles hard which is bearable as a pup but is horrible as an adult dog. If you dont move where it wants it bites harder and harder till you do!

Who assessed the dog in the first place?

No one it was a private surrender straight into foster care. The dog never had a temprement test or anything. All it had was notes from the orginal owner. The orginal owner had tried their best with this dog. It's evident that temprement played a big part in this dogs problems because even with a very experienced person this dog was still nipping and bitting to push people where it wanted them and baiting other dogs into fighting with it. Its first foster carer recommened it be PTS but they just took the dog off this carer and gave it to another and just stopped communicating with him. This person also knows their stuff so why they didn't listen I don't know.

That is appalling and frightening. For some, it is about life at all costs - even if by saving that life they are going to put others in danger. Totally unacceptable. They are completely irresponsible and it should be reported to the QLD DLG before a child loses it's eye or worse.

Funny I was asked to rehome a dog who after being assessed council declared dangerous a dog behavourist declared dangerous and by the owners own admission claimed the attacks were dangerous yet they didn"t want the dog pts I refused to rehome it as it had already attacked and killed live stock and attacked children I explained that a dog of such nature had no place in society and to rehome him knowing these things would be on my head so I suggested to pts BUT as the owners thought that was rude of me I WAS then blacklisted by some people and told for a rescue to be a good standards then each and every animal has a right to live and should do so.I did explain the situation and the council order etc I still refused to rehome the dog nor would I keep a dog of such nature around my kids The owners had said they came to me as other rescues had suggested the dog be pts I don"t believe in knowingly putting other peoples lives at risk the consequences of a dog attack can affect more than the dog and the attacked I believe I also have a duty of care to not only the animal in my care but the person that dog goes to.

I had a child here who screamed and cried as the result of my dog touching her ----Her mother told me she had been bitten by a dog and although they"ve tried she still has fear issues she did have a scar but given she is young the scar will fade but the emotional scars are the ones that will take alot longer to heal

How do I report this dog to the authorities as this dog although only 5 months old is showing all the signs of becoming a menace and it wont be long before it's face nipping becaomes a serious bite! This save everything because its cute or deserves a chance is why I left. They also are not disclosing to the new owners of other dogs things such as the dogs health history (ie dog had Kennel cough or Parvo). Also not disclosing problems such as servere seperation anxiety etc. They just try to rehome the dog to someone who is home most of the time and then that person doesn't discover the problem until they go on holiday or out for the day.

[tdierikx]

Some rescues believe with every fibre of their being that if it has a pulse, it MUST be "saved"...

Pretty stupid thinking IMHO. Rehoming a dog is not just about what is "best" for the dog - it's about what's best for the whole community... *sigh*

Non-disclosure WILL come back to bite you in the bum... and sometimes literally!

T.

[OutOfSightHound]

I don't want to see anyone especially children get hurt by this dog as it's listed as loves to play with kids!!!!! There is a distinct diference between herding kids up and playing with them!!! I'm going to get in contact with the Dog management people and report the dog as it also savaged the face of his dog! It makes the grade already for nusicence dog and with the stuff from the vet and the Doc there is enough evidence to probably have this dog listed as a menace.

Edited November 15, 2012 by OutOfSightHound