Considering The Aftermath- Rehoming Dogs With Behavioural Problems

[chuckandsteve]

This is the reason I am thinking I might stop fostering after my current dog

I couldn't PTS a dog that I could manage and how can you trust someone you don't know to not put the dog in a situation where he could hurt himself or someone else.

[sas]

This is the reason I am thinking I might stop fostering after my current dog

I couldn't PTS a dog that I could manage and how can you trust someone you don't know to not put the dog in a situation where he could hurt himself or someone else.

That would be the reason why you only take on dogs that are suitable for rehoming. If the dog is not suitable for rehoming then you return it to the rescue.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

It's no reason to stop fostering but just make sure you foster for a reputable group that has expertise, a dog trainer and plenty of support and resources for you to count on.

[garnali]

Have just started taking my failed foster to the local dog obedience for socialising & group work..

My 6 month old will heel, sit, stay & has basic recall..

I arrived to find very inexperienced handlers with dogs that could be classified in the aggressive area..

My little bloke was confused that other dogs could behave so badly.. Not a good start for him..

I guess in rehoming we have to be aware that no matter how much information we give the adopter there is a high chance that the dog will develop problems...

I personally have a lot of contact with adoptive families and would never send a dog out of my local area unless I knew there was a support network available..

I have taken back dogs that dont 'fit' in their new home & have euthanased a dog that was fear aggressive.. Not something I enjoyed doing but was necessary for the safety of those who were involved.

[Cosmolo]

Support networks are very important- moreso with particular dogs.

I used to work with a shelter where we made some dogs training compulsory after their assessment. It meant that at the time of adoption the adopter and new dog would be signed up for training with the shelter (they had a number of venues where training could take place but they were all associated with the shelter).

This had the benefit of maintaining a relationship with the shelter for those dogs that were either going to be great dogs with training or a disaster without. It meant we could make sure training happened- it was more than just the adopter saying they would, it was a condition of adoption, paid for at time of adoption.

For those who did not want to do this, that was fine- they could still adopt. But they could not adopt 'training compulsory' dogs.

I liked this system and thought it worked very well but am yet to find any organisation since then who is willing OR in some cases, able to implement it.

[Cosmolo]

I finally watched the video KTB posted. I didn't have an issue with that dog being rehabbed by experienced people- prior to rehoming. I have seen dogs MUCH worse, who displayed aggressive behaviour outside their pen while being assessed be rehomed without a second thought.

[melzawelza]

Support networks are very important- moreso with particular dogs.

I used to work with a shelter where we made some dogs training compulsory after their assessment. It meant that at the time of adoption the adopter and new dog would be signed up for training with the shelter (they had a number of venues where training could take place but they were all associated with the shelter).

This had the benefit of maintaining a relationship with the shelter for those dogs that were either going to be great dogs with training or a disaster without. It meant we could make sure training happened- it was more than just the adopter saying they would, it was a condition of adoption, paid for at time of adoption.

For those who did not want to do this, that was fine- they could still adopt. But they could not adopt 'training compulsory' dogs.

I liked this system and thought it worked very well but am yet to find any organisation since then who is willing OR in some cases, able to implement it.

I know AWL NSW have done this with some dogs.

[chuckandsteve]

If a dog with socialisation issues shouldnt be taken To class how do you suggest people socialise them?

[Cosmolo]

Is that directed at me? That's not what i said.

[RuralPug]

If a dog with socialisation issues shouldnt be taken To class how do you suggest people socialise them?

You attend the class, but work outside the trigger distance away. Eventually, the trigger distance should be short enough that you can actually join the class. I'm not sure if I've explained that clearly enough, but one of the professionals may be able to clarify.

[Every Greyhound]

So many great tips, greyhounds coming into care after being retired from racing means there are a lot of things that are "new" to them that would not be new to other breeds at this age. Given time, love, understanding and nurturing/training (from great foster carers) they become very sound all round dogs. There are the exceptions with any breed of course and it takes seeking advice and other opinions to make decisions that are best for the dogs, new owners and community. Support networks are very important, especially to know about particular breed issues

Every Greyhound

"its not about the people behind it but the dogs in front of it"

Email me

My link

[chuckandsteve]

thanks rural pug

Yeah that's what we do. But with 2 ppl the second to run interference for the owners that say, but my dog is fine. It just wasn't very clear, that's why I asked the question.

Edited August 27, 2012 by chuckandsteve

[Wobbly]

I'm an average pet owner so I can only give that perspective.

I've seen the flack you've copped SAS, and IMO you are doing the right thing, the only responsible thing you can do considering the strength and size of your breed. There are so many good, sound dogs who need help and inevitably many of them (most of them in some areas) will be pts. It makes no sense to choose to rescue the unsound dogs while so many sound ones are pts for lack of people to help them.

If you want to see the aftermath of rehoming an unsound dog, have a look at the "Exercising reactive dogs" thread in the training forum here - so much heartache for the owners of these dogs. And those are the unstable dogs lucky enough to have really good, caring responsible owners. Even if you rehome a problem dog to a good home, family illnesses or other crises can change people's capacity to look after a dog, especially a special needs dog. There are unforseeable circumstances that can force someone to give their dog away. Imagine what those unstable dogs would be like in less responsible homes (and most homes probably are too irresponsible for dogs like that). And remeber there is a possibility the dog you rehome to one home may end up in another at some point. Is it worth risking? IMO no.

On the other hand, there are dogs who might unfairly be labelled "problems". I know my dog might have been one of these. Her issues stemmed from not having had a good stable home from puppyhood - she had been a stray and then endured the pound for over a month, she was unsocialised with dogs and people, and had learnt pushy, nippy behaviours. She did show mild emerging dog aggression, but it wasn't fear or anxiety triggered aggression, it was just normal Amstaff behaviour, so it was easily managed with good quality professional advice, even for an average, clueless dog owner like myself. Our dog trainer at the obedience class today even complimented her dog-dog greeting manners! It took a fair bit of time and effort to make her a good dog, but it was always a foregone conclusion she WOULD be fine with a bit of help because her fundamental temperament was always stable - there was no fear or anxiety or resource guarding or anything else that spoke of an unstable temperament.

So I guess what I am saying is there are some behaviours that aren't going to present a risk, even if they might look a bit worrisome at first glance - dogs who just just may have had a bad start and learnt some bad behaviours, but show no anxiety or fear. With a bit of professional advice these dogs can be fine with an average owner. I'd put fence jumpers in this category too, it's not a temperament problem - just a personality that needs effective containment and it's not too difficult to achieve that - I know the bully breeds in particular do well in apartments and houses, they don't need a backyard if they get sufficient walks.

But there are those dogs whose problems can't be reliably rehabilitated, the excessively nervous, excessively fearful dogs who are too far gone to be rehabilitated reliably and for those dogs, heartbreaking as it may be, it's not worth the risk IMO. Let them go and instead save your valuable time and energy to help the multitudes of abandoned dogs who can be reliably rehabilitated.

[Nekhbet]

We just got a new student today ... a bull breed cross adopted out WITHOUT A TEMP TEST. I couldnt get within 6 feet of the owner without facing a lot of pearly whites and tail wedged firmly in between her legs, shaking and growling at me. WTF seriously is wrong with people?!

[Cosmolo]

We have had 2 in the last month like that Nek.

That is actually a really good suggestion for those that rehome to read the reactive dogs thread.

[WoofnHoof]

I think breed plays a huge part in problem behaviours (at least in those which have identifiable breed traits) I know that huskies are not for the average owner and yet there are so so many in rescue I was talking to a woman the other day she told me she was given a husky but it kept running away (I was amazed that it came back I'm sure mine wouldn't), she gave it to another lady, saw her a few years later and found out that it ran away from her as well and never came back. Probably hit by a car poor bugger So little breed education out there and with breeds that are not as biddable it is absolutely crucial that they go to someone familiar with the breed or at least someone who understands and accepts the traits that come with it. The average owner expects a dog to come when it's called, expects it not to shed boatloads of hair everywhere, expects it to stay in average fencing without any special modifications or management, expects it to have a modicum of obedience with basic training. All reasonable expectations for the biddable breeds but not so reasonable for a breed like a sibe.

I can understand the problem dog issues though, you see this with horse rescues as well, they pick up a lot of horses (usually with soundness issues) and then spend thousands of donated dollars trying to get it paddock sound, if they can they then try to rehome it so they can rescue more. Problem is there are very few homes for paddock ornaments, it's all well and good if you can afford to keep it in the manner to which it has become accustomed to live out it's days (I've got one of those myself) but when your rescue relies on being able to move them on it very much has to come back to optimizing the chances of a good, long term home and that means euthanising the lost causes and being a lot more objective about the ones you bring home.

It's very tempting for someone who is passionate about the welfare of horses to want to set up a rescue and get a truckload of doggers and take them to safety, but the reality of it all is that the costs are astronomical and the chance of success relatively small. Interestingly an old friend of mine who used to criticize me for being 'negative' about this sort of thing, asked me for help the other day to rehome an occasionally unsound horse she had 'saved' from being sent to the doggers a while back, now of course she can't afford to feed it so was all set to take it to the sales. Being the bleeding heart that I am I offered to put it up on a few facebook pages that I'm on, I don't know if it has improved the horse's chances of a decent home or not at least there has been some disclosure about it's soundness or lack thereof that *might* stop him getting bounced around some more.

It's all very frustrating, I'm the first to say give an animal a 2nd chance, 3rd chance etc, but only if you have the resources and capability to do so, and if you want the animal to live you need to accept that it may never be able to be rehomed and you need to be responsible for that animal and not try to rehome it into an unsuitable situation and also give it the best life you can give it. It's a lot to ask and that is why I take my hat off to good rescues that can be objective and make the tough decisions, I certainly wouldn't be able to do it I have to wait for one of mine to kick the bucket before I can attempt another 'save' lol.

Sorry for the witching hour rant ramble

Edited: more of a ramble than a rant lol

Edited September 1, 2012 by WoofnHoof

[Wobbly]

We just got a new student today ... a bull breed cross adopted out WITHOUT A TEMP TEST. I couldnt get within 6 feet of the owner without facing a lot of pearly whites and tail wedged firmly in between her legs, shaking and growling at me. WTF seriously is wrong with people?!

We have had 2 in the last month like that Nek.

That is actually a really good suggestion for those that rehome to read the reactive dogs thread.

Quite terrifying, depending on the sizes of the dogs and how scared they are. I find it particularly disturbing when Bully breeds are adopted out like that, it's the very last thing we need in the current BSL climate.

So awful for the owners too, who most likely adopted the dogs with visions of enjoying long walks/runs with a their new companion, only to find leaving the house with the dog is a terrifying ordeal. At least they have found their way to you, that's a good start, I hope you can get a good outcome for these dogs and their owners.

Here is a link to the "Exercising Reactive Dogs" thread so people can access it easily. It starts off positively enough, but reading on and seeing the problems these owners face is just heartbreaking. They love their dogs so much, but unfortunately love just isn't enough sometimes.

http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/232274-exercising-reactive-dogs-thread/

[Cosmolo]

Unfortunately sometimes even though they make their way to us, they are already on a heart breaking path. We've had large and giant breed dogs with severe issues and they are such a difficult proposition.

[Wobbly]

And the big problem of course is that the owner has become so attached to the dog, it's unlikely they could bear to put the animal down, even if intellectually they may know that's the most sensible option. They desperately want to be the saviour of the dog they've come to love, and can't countenance the possibility that may be impossible.

Another reality too, that's perhaps not so clear to people with more dog knowledge and experience, is the average person with little experience who wants a rescue dog will probably fall for the 1st dog that they're introduced too, no matter how unsuitable that dog is for them. All the best intentions of getting a suitable dog will be swept away by the first set of melting brown eyes we see. I know that's absolutely true because it happened to me. Lucky for me the first dog I met (at the pound) didn't have any real deep seated issues.

If she had been fearful it would have tugged at the heart strings even harder and made me even more determined to give her a home and try to rehabilitate her. I would have thought: "Hey I had family dogs when I was a kid! I love dogs, I have a real rapport with them! of course I MUST help this dog!", and really believed that, I wouldn't have realised until too late that I completely lacked the skills to provide adequate, effective help.

My friend's brother had the most awful new pet ownership experience I've ever seen (i've seen a few pet acquisitons go really bad, and I'm just an average joe, I can only imagine what professional trainers and behaviourists must see). The dog was a huge entire male Rotti, I saw him go from sweet as pie to snarling maniac in a heartbeat (resource guarding) and it was terrifying. He gave the dog away eventually, he had to, the problem escalated, none of us even knew dog behaviourists existed. He gave the dog to someone who said they could cope with it, without knowing how to check if that was true. And that is a fate probably all too common for problem dogs, owners think they can manage at first, realise they can't and so pass the problem on to someone equally ill-equipped. Awful for everyone involved, most of all for the dog itself.

When it comes down to it, we (average clueless prospective rescue dog owners) decide to get a dog because we want a happy, healthy dog to share our lives with - what we want is an already well adjusted dog, or a dog that is within our power to help to become become well-adjusted. We want to save a dog's life, and we seek to add value to our own lives with that choice. When prospective owners fall for a dog that has truly serious issues, they usually don't know what it is they're really signing up for. They don't realise that perhaps they never will be able to enjoy those long walks with the dog they dreamed of, or many of the other normal activities that most people take for granted with their dogs.

So with that in mind it really IS up to rescues, who have more experience and thus better judgement, to save prospective dog owners from the folly of their own ignorance. And no matter how much we, the prospective dog owners try to convince you we can truly help that fearful problem dog we just fell in love with, just because we believe it so vehemently, doesn't make it true, and rescuers need to be really aware of that. Make sure the dog you let them fall for is within their capacity to manage, for everyone's sake. If you must save a real problem dog, realise that the best outcome is probably a foster failure - you can't pass a serious problem like that onto someone else, it's unfair to all involved, most of all the dog itself, who may face being rehomed again and again.

The irony of this thread though is that it's directed at people who likely won't ever see it. On the whole DoL rescuers will probably be aware of all this anyway, because they read the forums and have seen the new dog owners who sign up to make "HELP" posts. You post, compare notes, give eachother reality checks and share the heartbreaking stories when it goes wrong. It's the rescuers that don't post or read here and inform themselves of the aftermath, that are probably the ones who need to read this thread but never will.

[tdierikx]

We've had plenty of people apply for dogs that aren't suitable for their family, and in most cases we can offer them a different dog that WILL fit into their family well. When a prospective adopter can see the difference in the dogs side by side, we rarely get any complaint - they are usually too over the moon that we managed to match a great dog for them.

Rescue isn't just about placing dogs willy nilly - it's about making the best decision for both the dog AND the new owners. People skills are needed as well as animal skills - which most ethical rescues have worked out nicely.

The other thing we need to remember is that not everyone who wants to adopt a rescue dog is a bleeding heart who thinks they are "saving" a "damaged" dog - sure, we get our share of that type, but I've found that most applicants have decided to go the rescue route because they have become aware that most rescues are perfectly well adjusted souls who just need a family to call their own - not to mention that all the vetwork, etc, and temperamnet testing is included... *grin*

Cowboy rescues who seem to be in some sort of race to "save" everything with a pulse only give the rest of us doing all the actual hard work to get it right a bad name... and that really narks me off!

T.