Considering The Aftermath- Rehoming Dogs With Behavioural Problems

[SueM]

Dogmad I just got out a very fearful little what I think is an Italian Greyhound x Chi, she was not coping at the pound at all, I am assessing her here with me :-)

[cyntah-anne]

Just looking through some of the urgent rescue threads. Some descriptions concern me greatly- so emotive and such little real behavioural information.

This is from this morning on Pound Rounds site. They had not met the dog. I have no words.

This group is your worst nightmare and should be dragged through evey court for what they have done to rescue dogs, families, their pets and their children.

"Do I look a bit fuzzy? I guess at age 84 we all get a bit fuzzy don't we dear. I hope I am not inconveniencing you too much dear but I am having a problem. I am spritely - we staffys live til we are 140 so at 84 I'm just a loving spring chicken with a bit of sunshine in my step. but here is my problem that I am hoping a few Facebook friends can help me out with. You see they are going to kill me. Now I know your Aunty melody have never been the prettiest girl at the dance and I have never been the smartest girl or the most popular, but that's because I thought all I had to be was a good dog. Somewhere along the way they changed the rules and I got downsized into a kill pound and in a couple of hours ol Aunty Melody gets jabbed with a green needle that will kill me.

Aside from not knowing at all why, because I was always a good dog, I am really hoping this note reaches you in time to help me. God love you for taking time to read this and care about me. Any help you can provide would be sincerely (really really) appreciated.

Warmest Regards,

Aunty Melody"

This was written for a 12 year old Staffy cross female this morning. She had a tumor on her leg.

[cyntah-anne]

Sorry the above was me. As mentioned I am currently dealing with a healthy red cattle dog atm. She has cancer. I want to slap the person who allowed this girl to be realeased as a potential adoption. Dogs with major health issues such as tumors should be pts. My emotion state is a bit off these days.

After reading all these posts. At the end of the day, its about second chances. You might find that adoption owner thats willing to work with a dog that has major behavioural problems, but they are very few of them. In the mean time other dogs that can be helped are pts. If the carer has done everthing possible to help that dog and it hasnt worked then what other option is there? The carer keeps the dog? This is the logical part of my brain talking. The emotional side, would say something completely different. I believe thats the real problem, we love dogs.

[RuralPug]

I don't mean this to sound harsh, but there is a hellavu difference between loving dogs, and giving them a decent quality of life.

So called "rescuers" who get truckloads of dogs out of the pounds and drop them off anywhere, with hardly any thought to assessment or suitable homes or back-up for their foster carers - let alone back-up for the poor families that end up with them, don't love dogs at all.

I suspect they think that every dog is a sort of Disney hound that can adapt happily to any home... they seem to think that anywhere away from the euthanasia room is good, even if the poor animal has to suffer months of institutionalisation or even neglect when adopted out for use as a garden ornament. Even if the dog and/or its new family have to suffer due to lack of basic common sense by the so-called "rescuers" they still feel as though they have done a good deed and they will howl shrilly if anyone suggests that they should take more care.

To truly love dogs, you have to want the best for them. Sometimes not to suffer IS the best.

There ARE good rescuers out there, who are careful with their placements and give extensive training and support to their foster carers. Yes, it hurts when after all the vetwork is paid for, you just can't change a behaviour that is a danger to the dog or others, and if it is not a behaviour that can be safed by choosing the correct home, then to truly do the best by that dog, euthanasia is the only answer. Most, if not all, of these danger behaviours are driven by fear - and it is just as kind as euthing to prevent the pain of an untreatable medical condition.

Rant over. My apologies for not giving a cool reasoned response, trying to fight fire with fire sometimes works...

[Nic.B]

Sorry the above was me. As mentioned I am currently dealing with a healthy red cattle dog atm. She has cancer. I want to slap the person who allowed this girl to be realeased as a potential adoption. Dogs with major health issues such as tumors should be pts. My emotion state is a bit off these days.

After reading all these posts. At the end of the day, its about second chances. You might find that adoption owner thats willing to work with a dog that has major behavioural problems, but they are very few of them. In the mean time other dogs that can be helped are pts. If the carer has done everthing possible to help that dog and it hasnt worked then what other option is there? The carer keeps the dog? This is the logical part of my brain talking. The emotional side, would say something completely different. I believe thats the real problem, we love dogs.

Hi Cyntah

I am very sorry to hear what you are currently going through with your girl

I have not met the dog in question, she may very well deserve a home to live out her days, she may also be a very nice dog.

What I dont agree with, is the emotive, manipualitive language they have used to guilt people. I agree she should be release to rescue only. There was no disclosure of the tumor, there were no temp notes added (infact this particular group REMOVE temp notes, steal the photos then make up their own story without having met the dog.)

They then rake in a huge number of donations and send the dogs into homes directly from the pound with no checks or support.

[koalathebear]

I posted a clip before from the documentary "One Nation Under Dog" that showed a dog trainer/rescuer working with a dog that looked very unpromising in a pound environment - clearly a fear biter.

Just curious about your views on it. It was one of the very few uplifting moments in an otherwise depressing, although excellent documentary, but now I am curious as to whether you think that the dog in question should have been rehomed (i.e its issues were too significant) or whether you think that the his assessment was right i.e. the dog could be rehomed but was not presenting well in a pound environment. I loved that he was able to bring the dog out of its shell but I know that I would certainly have been thrown off by the dog's body language etc.

[Little Gifts]

I have had people be aghast at rescues or shelters that put dogs with major issues to sleep, but when you ask what did they think was the alternative, these people say there will always be someone to take the dog despite the issues, but when you ask would they themselves take such a dog, they all instantly say NO, most emphatically.

I witnessed the FB attack on Ams and this was the crux of the argument from people who were horrified that a physically healthy dog wsa going to be pts for fear and anxiety behaviours. They were all 'give it another chance'. They didn't care what work had been done with it to date. They didn't care that the dog was an accident waiting to happen to itself. Nope they wanted the elusive 'somebody' to come along and perform a miracle with the dog. Of course they weren't offering themselves or money or even pursuable options. They just assumed that amazing 'somebody' would appear like magic and everyone could breathe a huge sigh of relief for that one dog.

This is not the reality of rescue. Sure some dogs with personality quirks and health issues are successfully rehomed but there has to be a bottom line so these dogs experience happiness and safety on a day in, day out basis.

[juice]

I don't think we see enough of the rehabilitation to make an informed view on her improvements.

She certainly wasn't afraid of the lady approaching her in the back of the wagon.

I was more touched by the poor pit, what a gentle soul she was.

[aussielover]

I don't think we see enough of the rehabilitation to make an informed view on her improvements.

She certainly wasn't afraid of the lady approaching her in the back of the wagon.

I was more touched by the poor pit, what a gentle soul she was.

I agree.

But she was still a dog that showed fear aggression so there is always the chance that she may show aggressive tendencies again if placed in a fearful/stressful situation. I think fear aggressive dogs, even if "rehabbed" should be placed only into experienced homes where the new owner has full knowledge of the history.

As far as we know this dog never actually bit anyone, but any dog that has actually seriously bitten a human would be a very serious risk to rehome no matter how much work went into it imo.

The pit was a real sweetie, I'm glad she had a happy ending.

[Nekhbet]

It's all very well saying that there is someone to take them, and I do see the people who take them. I also see how emotional these people become when reality sets in about how bad the dog is. You see them torn between the social pressure of having to keep dealing with this 'rescue' dog and their own stress at the dog ripping their life apart. I also am sick to death of excusing dog behavior ... oh it has to have been neglected/beaten/frightened etc so lets give it some leeway in how it behaves. Dogs have wonderfully malleable temperaments at times and can be pulled out of unsocial behaviors that have been learned if foster carers have at least a few basic skills. I don't feel sorry for dogs that display fear behaviors because it doesnt help them in the long term, I would rather pull them out of their shell and see that bright spark in their eye when they realise life isn't all bad after all and its better to be happy.

Guilt tripping needs to go. No desperation grabs, no 'oh take him/her otherwise they will DIE!!' type crap because guess what, at least one other will be in their place within a few hours.

I actually just went to do a prelim temp test on a big crossbreed who supposedly is a terror ... very quick turn around to a perfectly behaved, calm dog when I just gave her basic structure and guidance.

The video above, I agree with the trainer the dog was not that frightening ... I have had worst in my own house as a surrender. BUT in saying that if there was no person suitably qualified to help that dog available then there is nothing wrong with euthing the dog for its own welfare. Remember dogs repertoire of expressing their inner feelings is extremely limited and we have to make provisions that a dog frightened out of its head in such an extreme environment will snap and bare it's teeth, particularly some breeds. The fact it didnt flip out or launch to take a chunk out of the trainer is always a good start.

[sas]

Reponding to the OP - here here - I personaly am sick of being attacked by other rescuers because I refuse to take aggressive dogs whether that be human aggression or dog aggression.

Recently we have said No to taking 2 Dane x's due to aggression - the attacks that came from those were just disgraceful.

I believe if you do not have the resources to rehab a dog then don't take the dog! We have a behavioural boot camp program with a Behaviourist however that is usually full - we will only do what is right for the dog - not to please other people who have an over emotional attachment to a legal liablity.

People need to stop making excuses for a dogs behaviour.

Edited: We accepted a surrender a while ago due to domestic violence, turns out this dog had more issues than we were we told and she has been in care 3 months and the carer is working her through a behavioural modification program with K9 Pro (post an actual session) - that dog isn't going anywhere until she is ready - she originaly was super reactive - we dedicated our selves to rehabbing her - that committment means we would euthanise if necc as well.

I get so cranky for the sake of the dog when I see one specific dog that is sitting in kennels (not ours) for the last 3-4 years because it technically isn't rehome-able - but what work have they done with it? None!

Edited August 12, 2012 by sas

[sas]

I posted a clip before from the documentary "One Nation Under Dog" that showed a dog trainer/rescuer working with a dog that looked very unpromising in a pound environment - clearly a fear biter.

Just curious about your views on it. It was one of the very few uplifting moments in an otherwise depressing, although excellent documentary, but now I am curious as to whether you think that the dog in question should have been rehomed (i.e its issues were too significant) or whether you think that the his assessment was right i.e. the dog could be rehomed but was not presenting well in a pound environment. I loved that he was able to bring the dog out of its shell but I know that I would certainly have been thrown off by the dog's body language etc.

If you have the resources to rehab a dog like shown in the video then sure - there are plenty of people out there that do have the resources and the skill.

It's the ones who don't have the resouces and/or the skill who take them that is the issues.

[newfsie]

Having been the person that took on the "she will be PTS, if you do not take her" with a massive dog aggressive and some human fear aggressive dog six years ago, I can now look back.......

I thought at the time that i knew enough about dog training and dog behaviour. How wrong I was. But I did go in eyes open or so I thought, and have learned so much since. And I am still learning and I will keep learning.

At the first she seemed quiet and it was not until week three that she tried to kill our other bitch. Was it not for our dog training back ground ( not behavioural) and quick management, we were able to pull them apart and save our other dog. And that took quite an effort. Afterwards we found it difficult to get help with people who give one to one training for aggression........Six years ago and where we lived there was not much help. I travelled with this dog from Sydney, Brisbane, Melbourne and many Seminars and workshops anywhere. LOL, I still do to this day, learning and learning

It was really all these one to ones and three times per week sessions one to tone with one trainer and three times daily training in Obedience ourselves with both dogs (the other bitch) side by side that got her there

She is now a totally managed dog....She is easy to have out and about socially with me and is very good in our household with all our dogs. I can now trust her with all friendly dogs, but NEVER with a dog that will show aggression or unacceptable behaviour. She does cope with dogs misbehaving around her as long as I am there in control of her or my husband

At our Kennel Club she is very social and happy to meet and greet, but always under control............NEVER would I let her go to an off lead park

A dog like this ties you down for as long as you have her. I cannot send her to a Kennel and go on trips. I have no idea what she would do if she was stressed or accidentally put out with the wrong dog or even handled by the wrong person.

She is excellent with people who are good with dogs and especially people she knows. But I would never leave her for a week/ fortnight with anyone I do not know. This means that as long as we have her the only long holidays are with dogs. Which isn't really so bad.

I also am always aware of my environment when I have her along.....She is well trained and to some it might appear a bit managed. But that is how she is happy..........She has her playtime and silly games at home with our dogs, who are social and very friendly and most of all reliable.

But after having her, I would now never put anyone else into the situation we were/are now in.....there are limits as to what we can do with some dogs. And unless someone knows how involved this will be for the life of the dog, it is almost unfair.......

I can compare, because when I have my other three dogs with me, I hardly have to keep an eye on them as they are so friendly and will work with anyone.

Some social behaviours can be fixed or lived with easily, aggression I would put in a separate box...........

I also find it scary that some people believe they can cure these dogs forever......I think there is always the "it could happen again" with my dog (or any dog with that sort of history). I think it is safer to accept that and not ignore......

I will have this dog forever and I do love her and because I have a great interest in training, she has taught me lots and I have now learned lots about behaviour training too, because of her. She is probably the most expensive dog I will ever own, if I take all the one to one training and workshops/seminars/courses that I did LOL.......And now I try to help others, but most people just want to have a dog to love......

[koalathebear]

I will have this dog forever and I do love her and because I have a great interest in training, she has taught me lots and I have now learned lots about behaviour training too, because of her. She is probably the most expensive dog I will ever own, if I take all the one to one training and workshops/seminars/courses that I did LOL.......And now I try to help others, but most people just want to have a dog to love......

None of my dogs is aggressive but I think I know what you mean - out of the three dogs I have right now, Elbie is the one that has taught me the most because he has more issues. Hoover the second dog to be added to our family was almost like a dream dog with no problems/issues, gets along with everyone, loves everyone. Elbie by contrast was a mouther as a pup, used to go crazy in the car or if we put the leash/collar/car harness on him, used to get feral when handled, got snarley around strange dogs. He grew out of all of these things but he still doesn't like strange dogs getting in his face and I would never let him just run around with a dog the way I would let Hoover, I would not leave him with someone else the way I could with Hoover. For a free to a good home dog he has been an incredibly expensive dog but we love him - in fact he's my husband's favourite dog because he's so smart and almost human - and we learned a lot about training, handling dogs etc from him. It is a huge commitment though and it can be very emotional/worrying. Accordingly, all of the dogs we foster must be confirmed to be non-aggressive before they come to us - I feel like we can pretty much handle everything else but because one of our dogs is very sensitive to snarly/aggressive dogs, we have to be careful.

[kazads]

Reponding to the OP - here here - I personaly am sick of being attacked by other rescuers because I refuse to take aggressive dogs whether that be human aggression or dog aggression.

Recently we have said No to taking 2 Dane x's due to aggression - the attacks that came from those were just disgraceful.

I believe if you do not have the resources to rehab a dog then don't take the dog! We have a behavioural boot camp program with a Behaviourist however that is usually full - we will only do what is right for the dog - not to please other people who have an over emotional attachment to a legal liablity.

People need to stop making excuses for a dogs behaviour.

Edited: We accepted a surrender a while ago due to domestic violence, turns out this dog had more issues than we were we told and she has been in care 3 months and the carer is working her through a behavioural modification program with K9 Pro (post an actual session) - that dog isn't going anywhere until she is ready - she originaly was super reactive - we dedicated our selves to rehabbing her - that committment means we would euthanise if necc as well.

I get so cranky for the sake of the dog when I see one specific dog that is sitting in kennels (not ours) for the last 3-4 years because it technically isn't rehome-able - but what work have they done with it? None!

Agree!! If you take on a dog you need to put the work in to making it rehomeable, if it turns out as not being rehomeable then you need to be able ti PTS. We all do our best but sometimes dogs are better off being put out of their own misery - keeping them around is purely for our own justification.

[pikespooches]

I have no qualms about recommending euthanasia for dogs with unfixable issues... and have held some while they have been given their wings.

It is never easy to have to make the decision to euthanaise - but in some cases, it's the only responsible thing to do.

We tend to keep our rescues for longer than most - precisely for the reason that we can know as much about the dogs as possible before finding them a home. What is the point of rehoming a dog if it's only going to bounce back to you or the pound?

Rescue is about how well we can rehome... not how many... IMHO...

T.

[WreckitWhippet]

I took on a foster earlier this year that was a fence jumper. She culd clear and scale anything and this included escaping from the local pound over their cyclone and barbed wire. I had her here for a couple of months, she was so bad that she'd even try and go over the fences while you were with her.

I was thinking of having her euth'd within the first month but thought if I could find an apartment home that she would be safe. She was the most affectionate and loving little soul and she really enjoyed living in the house.

I waited quite some time for the "right" home to come along and off she went to her inner city dwelling. She lasted only two days before I got a phone call saying that someone had found her on a major road.

Her new owner was at a loss as to how she was out and raced home to check the house was locked and no one had broken in.

She was so hell bent on escaping that she climbed through a slighlty open window that had less than 10cm wide security bars on it.

I was devestated, her new owner was devasted that she was not able to be kept in and I made the decision to have her PTS. I had discussed her issue with quite a few people who were very knowledable regarding the breed, I talked to several people in rescue who had experience with "fence jumpers" and an behaviourist.

Such a waste of such a lovely soul. I did seriosuly consider her options and the consequences of her behaviour before rehoming her. The last thing I wanted to do was break someone's heart. I will not rehome another fence jumper.

RIP Lucy Whippet

One thing I am adamant should happen in rescue is that no dogs are rehomed from kennel/storage rescue facilities. People that adopt a dog are expecting that dog to fit into their family home and as such they should be fostered in a family/home environment. How on earth can rescues match dogs to families, when the dogs haven't set foot in a home, they have gone straight from pound to storage. There were several Whippets that bounced around NSW for months, I've lost track of where they are now, I hope they have finally landed on their feet.

[Guest lavendergirl]

I took on a foster earlier this year that was a fence jumper. She culd clear and scale anything and this included escaping from the local pound over their cyclone and barbed wire. I had her here for a couple of months, she was so bad that she'd even try and go over the fences while you were with her.

I was thinking of having her euth'd within the first month but thought if I could find an apartment home that she would be safe. She was the most affectionate and loving little soul and she really enjoyed living in the house.

I waited quite some time for the "right" home to come along and off she went to her inner city dwelling. She lasted only two days before I got a phone call saying that someone had found her on a major road.

Her new owner was at a loss as to how she was out and raced home to check the house was locked and no one had broken in.

She was so hell bent on escaping that she climbed through a slighlty open window that had less than 10cm wide security bars on it.

I was devestated, her new owner was devasted that she was not able to be kept in and I made the decision to have her PTS. I had discussed her issue with quite a few people who were very knowledable regarding the breed, I talked to several people in rescue who had experience with "fence jumpers" and an behaviourist.

Such a waste of such a lovely soul. I did seriosuly consider her options and the consequences of her behaviour before rehoming her. The last thing I wanted to do was break someone's heart. I will not rehome another fence jumper.

RIP Lucy Whippet

One thing I am adamant should happen in rescue is that no dogs are rehomed from kennel/storage rescue facilities. People that adopt a dog are expecting that dog to fit into their family home and as such they should be fostered in a family/home environment. How on earth can rescues match dogs to families, when the dogs haven't set foot in a home, they have gone straight from pound to storage. There were several Whippets that bounced around NSW for months, I've lost track of where they are now, I hope they have finally landed on their feet.

You are so right - I would never adopt from a shelter again. I don't know how they can possibly know how a dog would fit in to a home environment and the outcome can be devastating for the person thinking they are getting a suitable companion dog. Of course the shelters have to operate the way they do but as a person looking to adopt I would be looking for a dog from a foster care situation in future.

[spyda62]

I took on a foster earlier this year that was a fence jumper. She culd clear and scale anything and this included escaping from the local pound over their cyclone and barbed wire. I had her here for a couple of months, she was so bad that she'd even try and go over the fences while you were with her.

I was thinking of having her euth'd within the first month but thought if I could find an apartment home that she would be safe. She was the most affectionate and loving little soul and she really enjoyed living in the house.

I waited quite some time for the "right" home to come along and off she went to her inner city dwelling. She lasted only two days before I got a phone call saying that someone had found her on a major road.

Her new owner was at a loss as to how she was out and raced home to check the house was locked and no one had broken in.

She was so hell bent on escaping that she climbed through a slighlty open window that had less than 10cm wide security bars on it.

I was devestated, her new owner was devasted that she was not able to be kept in and I made the decision to have her PTS. I had discussed her issue with quite a few people who were very knowledable regarding the breed, I talked to several people in rescue who had experience with "fence jumpers" and an behaviourist.

Such a waste of such a lovely soul. I did seriosuly consider her options and the consequences of her behaviour before rehoming her. The last thing I wanted to do was break someone's heart. I will not rehome another fence jumper.

RIP Lucy Whippet

One thing I am adamant should happen in rescue is that no dogs are rehomed from kennel/storage rescue facilities. People that adopt a dog are expecting that dog to fit into their family home and as such they should be fostered in a family/home environment. How on earth can rescues match dogs to families, when the dogs haven't set foot in a home, they have gone straight from pound to storage. There were several Whippets that bounced around NSW for months, I've lost track of where they are now, I hope they have finally landed on their feet.

You are so right - I would never adopt from a shelter again. I don't know how they can possibly know how a dog would fit in to a home environment and the outcome can be devastating for the person thinking they are getting a suitable companion dog. Of course the shelters have to operate the way they do but as a person looking to adopt I would be looking for a dog from a foster care situation in future.

There are pros and cons in adopting from both a shelter and foster homes IMHO.

A shelter is such a high stress environment.

You get to see how the dog copes with that type of pressure. They are mixed with other dogs. Exposed to a range of people from qualified trainers / behaviourists, volunteers from all walks of life, young teens doing work experience, special needs groups,public coming in to view them and etc

At our shelter, they see cats, are exposed to a range of livestock,are exposed to heavy machinery in the background.

Every dog is walked everyday. Every dog gets to run in a lare grassy off leash area with other dogs every day and get trained as needed. They also get to go to the park every week.

So no... shelter staff cannot tell you how a dog will be in a home environment. They can however tell you alot about a dogs character from the time,effort and experiences they put into them, plus you have the back up of the shelter, if there are problems.

[indigirl]

I fostered andthen rehomed a dog who was a fence jumper a little while back. Lovely dog, great recall, very dog social, ok with cats amd loved everyone. His one vice was that if he heard you out the front he would jump my 7ft fences to get to me. Also if a storm was approaching he would jump the fence and come to the front door.

He was rehomed to a young couple with full disclosure about his fence ju,ping. They had a bed room out the back that he could access if there was a storm and they weren't home, and they lived on a quiet street. To date he has jumped their fence a number if times and gone to their front door. They manage his fence jumping much the same as I did. He doesn't attempt to go anywhere and doesn't threaten or chase anyone who happens to walk by when he's in the front yard.

So in this case the dog was rehomable. However several years ago I PTS a kelpie who was a fence jumper as I felt she was not rehomable.

I think foster carers need to be able to assess the dogs potential to be rehomed from a rational and non emotional perspective. I think carers need to be willing to PTS any dogs they foster should they have behavioral problems which cannot be overcome or managed well.