Considering The Aftermath- Rehoming Dogs With Behavioural Problems

[Cosmolo]

I have toyed for a very long time with whether or not to put a post like this here. This is not at all about any specific situation but rather a number of observations and experiences over a number of years and i am hoping that by starting this when there is no situation to discuss- we can get an informative and engaging thread happening.

If you rehome any dog with behavioural issues- please give thought to what happens after that dog is rehomed, not just to the dog but to the people who are involved with the dog and the community as a whole.

Have you re-examined your assessment procedures recently? How often do you communicate with foster carers or staff/ volunteers about a dog's behaviour? Do you/ they know what you're looking for?

Do you know the difference between behaviour problems that can be resolved in theory and those that can be resolved in practice? Do you know that behaviour problems that have been improved while the dog is in care will often regress to some degree when the dog is rehomed? Do you know how much it costs for someone to get ongoing professional help to rehab a dog?

Please don't underestimate the emotion that involves itself once a problem dog is rehomed. Many new owners love their new dogs rapidly- and decisions about the dogs future when that dog is dangerous or impacts their life in such a negative way can be both difficult and devastating.

Please add your thoughts or questions.

[kayla1]

Cosmolo are you thinking aggression in particular or other behavioural issues?

[Cosmolo]

Dog Aggression, Human Aggression, Separation Anxiety, Fence Jumping, Extreme Resource Guarding and Extreme Destructive Behaviour.

[Guest lavendergirl]

Dog Aggression, Human Aggression, Separation Anxiety, Fence Jumping, Extreme Resource Guarding and Extreme Destructive Behaviour.

About $1,000 all up so far - thats the dollar value not including the stress.

Great idea for a topic.

[Zug Zug]

Impact on my old girl of me trying to adopt a dog this Summer who needed more thorough temperament assessment.

He ripped into her face. She went to the emergency vet, and he had to go back to the pound. This photo was taken a few weeks later - after the first surgery but before the second surgery (which was needed because her face did not heal properly the first time around so they needed to go back in)

Obviously I think this is a very important thread and subject. I have adopted dogs before - in fact the lovely old girl in this photo is Zamba and I adopted her from the same pound almost 12 years ago now. But I would be very hesitant to do it again after this awful experience.

Luckily Zamba has recovered fully, but not without costing 2,000 in vet bills and a long and very uncomfortable recovery period for her (2 surgeries, and a facial wound that did not heal quickly at all).

The dog I adopted had already shown signs of resource guarding before we adopted him. They considered it minor.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Zug Zug

[Lollipup]

Great topic. I haven't been training the public for very long and already I have seen and heard of lots of cases where the owners have adopted a dog with serious issues and they don't realise the amount of work needed to overcome the problems. Sometimes they don't realise how serious the problems are and other times they are not willing to put in the work to fix the problem until the situation gets worse. Many times the dog has not been properly or thoroughly assessed or is placed into a home that isn't suitable.

[Greytmate]

Dog Aggression, Human Aggression, Separation Anxiety, Fence Jumping, Extreme Resource Guarding and Extreme Destructive Behaviour.

A list of behaviours where if the foster carer is super-dedicated, manages the dog carefully, and expert behavioural advice is taken, the dog is likely to behave without incident in foster care.

If the dog is then adopted out to the average pet owner, it is likely to revert to form.

So I would consider a dog with a history of any of those things as unfit for adoption.

Those that are experienced and knowledgeable about problem dogs wouldn't normally choose to own a pet like that. So with those capable of managing such a dog removed from the pool of potential adopters, that only leaves people who don't have an understanding with how to deal with serious behaviour problems.

All of those behaviours can lead to a cruel death either for the dog concerned, to people or to other dogs. It just is not acceptable to be selling those dogs as pets, and a really horrible way to burn people wanting to adopt a rescue dog.

Most dogs are unwanted because they have annoying behaviours that can be trained out of them. They are just unruly and ill-mannered and the foster carer can do some standard obedience training with them to get them to an adoptable standard. But the dogs with the behaviours you have listed are different. On a practical level, you can't reliably change the temperament behind those serious behaviours.

[Zug Zug]

I would see fence jumping and separation anxiety as a bit different perhaps.

Probably because Zamba arrived with these issues and we coped (albeit with some difficulty initially) and she has turned out great.

Of course depends how severe, and on the home.

But aggression issues are more serious in my view.

[Cosmolo]

I think fence jumping is workable IF a solution is found prior to adoption that can be passed on AND there are no other behaviour problems that crop up when the fence jumping ceases. Rehoming fence jumpers with ANY aggression issues- even to cats- is a very serious proposition.

Serious separation anxiety is one of the most difficult, stressful behaviour problems- for dog and owner to deal with. Mild separation anxiety may be workable in the right home but as Greytmate suggests, many homes that are experienced enough to know what's required would not knowingly choose to own a dog with issues.

I very much appreciate the contribution from those who have adopted dogs with issues. I would like to contribute stories but cannot so i hope your personal experiences also help to provide a 'face' to the issue.

[koalathebear]

Cosmolo this is something that's very much on my mind right now. We're fostering a Kelpie cross and he's gorgeous. We've had no problems with him - our two dogs were a bit offended when he arrived but they all get along fine now. He was very easy to house-train. He gets along very well with other dogs. He is very smart and trainable - learned sit, drop, spin, shake hands in only 6 days. Travels beautifully in the car. Was easy to crate train. He is very responsive to correction - just a 'no' or an 'uh uh' and he will desist. You can handle him all over, touch his paws, his hind legs, brush him, pick him up without any problems. He shows no signs of separation anxiety and really just seems like a very well-adjusted dog. We are also working hard at teaching him to chill out when he sees the humans chilling i.e. go to his bed/crate/mat and lie there.

The thing is, in him I can see traits that are fairly typical working dog/Kelpie-ish traits and were probably what led to him being dumped in the first place. I can see that he could be an escape artist, even though he has never tried to escape from our yard. He could have destructive tendencies but we watch him closely and discourage him when he looks like he's going to counter surf/gnaw on something he shouldn't. He had really appalling doorway and mealtime manners when we got him and we have been teaching him to wait - but the impatience is still there and if he had an owner who let him get away with it, he'd very quickly regress to being pushy and bratty.

I am not sure how he would be in a different household. I know foster carers who have dogs who behave beautifully at their house but then when rehomed, immediately jump the fence even though they've never showed any inclination to do that while in foster care. We are trying to expose our foster to as many different people and situations as possible, to as many different household appliances and noises as possible but I suppose the worry for me is that perhaps there is something unknown trigger that we just don't know about. I used to read posts about rescue dogs gone wrong and wonder how on earth it happened but now I can't help thinking that foster dogs are frequently in care for a relatively short period of time and it can be hard to expose the dog to all stimuli that it is likely to encounter. On top of that, a dog with issues may not manifest such issues with certain people but may with others. No one in their right mind would rehome a blatantly aggressive, fence-jumping dog - it's possible that some things just manifest later depending on the environment and the owner. I find this a bit scary :p

ETA: I was very anxious/emphatic about not having our dog listed on petrescue until I had finished all of his basic training - I had put together a list of things here that I don't want our foster dogs leaving without. I've often seen rescue dogs listed on petrescue for adoption within days or even on the day they're liberated from the pound and wonder how one earth you can really assess the dog's true nature in such a short period of time.

Edited August 8, 2012 by koalathebear

[Nekhbet]

I do agree with you Cosmolo. There seems to be almost a rabid fashion of just saving EVERYTHING! Bung it from foster to foster, adopt it out quick and be a hero, despite the fact the dog has exhibited some shocking behaviors.

My rule is if the dog cannot go to the average dog owner without being a public nusience or a danger to others/itself it should not. I recommended one dog recently as not for rehoming, no one had realised the dog had been backyard protection trained. Showed it a sleeve it went ballistic trying to rip down fencing to get to it and hit it like a freight train with great precision and skill. Otherwise, reasonably well mannered easy to get along with dog, our first hint was he hated the foster carers partner and kept escalating.

I took in a dog from interstate, within a week it had ripped a window out, broke out of a vet cage while highly medicated and screamed if he couldnt see me for an instant (as in the other side of a bench) He was also starting to guard me within a few days.

Euthanasia is becoming a dirty word and I think it needs to stop. There needs to be SOME line drawn somewhere, and for lack of a better term, quality control. Warehousing or shifting on liablities are becoming all too often these days and the new owners are usually the ones that suffer for it. There is an opportunity for a dog to be thoroughly tested before passed onto a new family, unlike free to good homers or cheapies in the paper. Temp tests need to start being taken seriously, training in foster care as well, otherwise it's just being a dog recycler under a warm and fuzzy name. Consideration also has to be taken for the dog - long term kenneling/foster care effects, suitability to be rehomed at all and if the behaviors will be managable. A dog like Koalathebears foster needs an experienced owner, but then again so do most dogs really that have a few old bad habits. She's one of many out there obviously doing her duty when fostering to and making the dog able to be rehomed, giving it a chance with at least the basics and that is awesome. More fostering like that needs to be done.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Nekhbet

[Cosmolo]

Your foster sounds lovely KTB. And some issues do manifest in particular homes and not others. But i am sorry to say- people DO rehome dogs with serious issues, that they know about or that they didn't assess properly. And it happens regularly. I am not talking about the dogs who, over time develop a completely new behavioural problem within an inexperienced home. I am talking about both a lack of proper issue identification AND what is done with the information once issues ARE identified.

[Cosmolo]

Just to add- most dogs will regress somewhat when moving from a more experienced home to one that is less so. But if that regression involves lesser manners, some jumping up, pulling on lead etc- it's okay. The new owner can then 'catch themselves up' by taking the dog to training etc.

But when there is a dog with known aggression or anxiety issues (that improves with experienced care) regresses when rehomed- it becomes a dangerous and devastating situation.

[cyntah-anne]

I have also noticed the save everything trend. The poor dog being bounced from carer to carer. I know of one dog who has been with six different carers. I have also noticed that this same trend is happening at the pounds. I currently have a greyhound with lupus that was bounced to me. I also have a little red cattle dog who was ment to be a temp to be then moved onto a permanent carer. This girl had a lump between her shoulder blades the size of a large mans fist. Why was this dog released from the pound ? There was no mention of this lump on the pound list. This girl has seperation anxiety and resourse guards as well. She resourse guards me, with 4 other dogs who demand my attention there is a lot of tension. She has also started jumping fences when put outside for 30secs. These sort of dogs are too hard to rehome Im sorry to say, and should be pts at the pound. Monday I found out she has cancer. What am I ment to do now? I have no experience with cancer and at the moment she is healthy. In a couple of months she wont be. By that time my heart will be involved. So a lot of resourses have been wasted on this one dog whos going to die anyway. So yes some dogs should be pts and not be considered for fostering. The two dogs that I mentioned came from the same pound, I will never accept a dog that has come from this pound ever. Pounds and rescue groups should be working together. Some healthy adoptable dog will be pts because this girl wasnt. .And yes I know I sound heartless but I am so bloody angry. So please forgive me.

Ive been a foster carer for 10 months and yes I am learning fast. When someone mentions temp, you know their lying :-)

I too am shocked at how fast some carers get their dog from pound to adoption. Most dogs in my care are with me a month, carers need this time to learn about the dog. I also have a list of things that I like my dogs to have experienced/ learnt before I even think of putting them up for adoption. As Im new to greyhounds they tend to hang around for 3 months, time to adjust to being a pet and I really enjoy having them.

[tdierikx]

I have no qualms about recommending euthanasia for dogs with unfixable issues... and have held some while they have been given their wings.

It is never easy to have to make the decision to euthanaise - but in some cases, it's the only responsible thing to do.

We tend to keep our rescues for longer than most - precisely for the reason that we can know as much about the dogs as possible before finding them a home. What is the point of rehoming a dog if it's only going to bounce back to you or the pound?

Rescue is about how well we can rehome... not how many... IMHO...

T.

Edited August 8, 2012 by tdierikx

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I strongly disagree with rescuing/rehoming dogs with serious aggression issues (human or dog) and I've had many years of rescue experience with many situations to draw from.

I myself made the mistake of picking a dog with such issues last year. Although I visited in the pound and the dog was with another dog, she was nervous but I thought she may have had sighthound in the mix and they can present in the same way.

She had all her vet work done, no probs reported by the vet staff but I picked her up and she bit me the first night. I was worried but put it down to the fact I thought she'd been mistreated previously. Subsequently she bit me a couple of other times during the 2 months I had her and we had some near misses.

She appeared to be OK most of the time and I learned that when she had a certain look, it wasn't a good idea to interact with her. This was a worry but I hoped she'd overcome whatever it was in time.

I then brought another small poodle cross home as a foster. From the word go she wanted to get to this dog and I was sure it wasn't to be friendly although she was fine with my dogs. I kept them separate but then when she worked out how to climb a wall and burst through the temp fencing to attack him - thank God I was home and no harm was done.

That same day my neighbour's kids (8 and 9) knocked on the door and the display of absolute aggression she showed had me completely floored. She was quite a strong dog at 11 kilos and I now realised I was looking at human/dog aggression and escapologist abilities and she was definitely not going to be rehomable.

In addition, she had some very odd behaviours that were inexplicable but most likely due to a brain tumour (I've had a dog with a bt before). Whether that exacerbated her human/dog issues I don't know but I had her put to sleep, you simply couldn't trust her even if she knew you.

There are rescue groups out there who happily rescue and rehome medium/large dogs with aggression - they know it and they still do it. This is not only putting people and other animals at risk which I believe is unacceptable but it an unprincipled "save everything with a pulse" attitude is going to eventually ruin rescue for the good people and wonderful dogs. Bad news spreads faster than good and with the massive fine of $32,000 for the owner of the dog that killed Ayen Chol, it is madness to keep rescuing dogs with dodgy temperatments. Not only that but once a child/person is disfigured or killed, you cannot make things right nor bring them back. I would never want to be responsible for that but those who are should be severely punished. $32,000 doesn't cut it.

Edited August 8, 2012 by dogmad

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Dog Aggression, Human Aggression, Separation Anxiety, Fence Jumping, Extreme Resource Guarding and Extreme Destructive Behaviour.

A list of behaviours where if the foster carer is super-dedicated, manages the dog carefully, and expert behavioural advice is taken, the dog is likely to behave without incident in foster care.

If the dog is then adopted out to the average pet owner, it is likely to revert to form.

So I would consider a dog with a history of any of those things as unfit for adoption.

I'm pondering this at the moment, I've got one here who is totally easy for my OH and l. The easiest foster we've had here in fact. She was surrendered as an escape artist - but the owner admitted the fences were in disrepair and only 4 foot high. She was also surrendered as anxious and destructive, but keeping a "cool" but routine relationship with her in a pack of dogs of her own breed has reduced that anxiety down to almost nothing. The first night she was here she chewed some slats on some blinds but since then has been fine, I can crate her without incident for reasonable periods of time, and kennel her as well.

I believe homed to an experienced breed home where someone is home most of the time she'll do well, homed to an inexperienced home, particularly one where they work full time, she would likely be a spectacular disaster.

The thing is, we have her mostly because the previous owner could not countenance euthanasia once things got too hard and if she stayed where she was she was heading down to the destination that most escaping dogs with no road sense end up. Yet looking at the Ned thread, I'm inclined to agree with Nekhbet. I am confident that in the right hands she will be fine, and indeed, a charming and sweet companion. But it's going to take the right home - because she's so easy and there is good support for breed rescue for our breed she can stay here until it turns up.

I think one of the major issues is rescuing whole litters of hard to home dogs. I've seen two in the last 18 months, and both litters have had multiple bounces out of their new homes - one spent nearly a year institutionalised before even a foster place could be found. At the time a couple of us hesitatingly said "hmm, perhaps PTS would be best" but the idea of euthing even half the pups is very hard for people to come to terms with. Unfortunately what it means is that a certain percentage cycle back through the system again, which is not good for them or for the people who have to clean up.

So what we have to think about for next time is whether we argue hard for euthanasia, and wear the people chattering about how we only want to put them down so they don't take home options for our own breeding, etc etc. I will be, it's no life for a high needs breed dog to be shunted or left as a backyard lawn ornament.

Edited to say that with anxiety including separation anxiety, it is often misdiagnosed, particularly in a breed context. My breed has a reputation for anxiety based behaviours, but in fact while some are anxious, others are displaying frustration and boredom intolerance instead. The one we have definitely falls into the latter camp, which will be why with someone who sets and maintains boundaries and gives her things to do she is fine. With someone who can be easily trained by a dog, she would be a mess. Either way tho', without appropriate assessment and guidance for the new home, it amounts to the same thing - an unmanageable situation.

Edited August 8, 2012 by SkySoaringMagpie

[megan_]

A good post. I'd add extreme fear/lack of socialisation to that list too.

When I got Lucy, she exhibited no aggression at all for the first year. When faced with a situation that she was unsure of (most situations), she would freeze and shake. After ab \out 6 months of having her - including ignoring her for almost a month as any attention would see her running outside as fast as her little legs would carry her - I started "socialising" her. Being inexperienced, I put her in situations that I thought she could cope with, thinking that would help her get over her fear. She looked like she was coping and would take food (if she was too stressed she wouldn't eat, so I never put her in that position). Big mistake. All she learnt is that if she behaves the scarey things don't go away.

Then one day, seemingly out of the blue, she tried to have a go at someone (I was right there, never left her alone with anyone and always made sure there were numerous exists available to her). She learnt a very powerful lesson that day: aggression = scarey things go away, very quickly!

It has been a long, stressful and costly road to recovery, and we aren't at the end of our journey yet. I love her very, very much but I will never be getting a fearful dog ever again and, in hindsight, I should have left without taking her back on day 0. I feel guilty for even writing that .

I shudder when I read ads that say "XXX is very shy, she needs lots of love and care to come out of her shell". It takes skill, knowledge and nerves of steel to safely rehabilitate a dog with extreme fear, even if they don't exhibit aggression.

If all it took were love, Lucy would be better by now.

Edited August 9, 2012 by megan_

[megan_]

SSM - I think finding the right home is the really hard part. There are very few truly skilled trainers out there looking for problem dogs to rehabilitate. And if they are, they normally have one already.

Many people underestimate the dedication that it takes to look after a troubled dog. I know many people who have owned dogs all their life - they'd call themselves experienced dog owners - who have given me absolutely awful, downright dangerous, advice about how to rehabilitate my dog ("she's scared of kids, just let her play with my kids"). That said, I'm sure they'd sound like wonderful applicants ("owned mini schnauzers for 20 years", "trained dogs for 10+ years", semi-retired, fully fenced yard etc)

Sometimes experienced homes are the wrong homes because they think they understand dogs, but they don't understand problem dogs. My Dad has owned dogs for over 40 years, but he struggled with my sister's crazy chi because she wasn't a "normal" dog. He was far too proud to consult a behaviourist.

[Greytmate]

I think fence jumping is workable IF a solution is found prior to adoption that can be passed on AND there are no other behaviour problems that crop up when the fence jumping ceases. Rehoming fence jumpers with ANY aggression issues- even to cats- is a very serious proposition.

I define a fence jumper as a dog that has learned it can go over fences and it is rewarding to do so, and will attempt to climb fences over the standard height (for that breed, it can vary). So a large dog that has escaped from a yard with inadequate fencing wouldn't count. But a dog that makes serious attempts to climb high fences is in danger. If it makes it over it could be killed by a car. But many make it half over-and do really nasty damage to their bodies in the process. Neither is acceptable.

Cosmolo this is something that's very much on my mind right now. We're fostering a Kelpie cross and he's gorgeous. We've had no problems with him - our two dogs were a bit offended when he arrived but they all get along fine now. He was very easy to house-train. He gets along very well with other dogs. He is very smart and trainable - learned sit, drop, spin, shake hands in only 6 days. Travels beautifully in the car. Was easy to crate train. He is very responsive to correction - just a 'no' or an 'uh uh' and he will desist. You can handle him all over, touch his paws, his hind legs, brush him, pick him up without any problems. He shows no signs of separation anxiety and really just seems like a very well-adjusted dog. We are also working hard at teaching him to chill out when he sees the humans chilling i.e. go to his bed/crate/mat and lie there.

The thing is, in him I can see traits that are fairly typical working dog/Kelpie-ish traits and were probably what led to him being dumped in the first place. I can see that he could be an escape artist, even though he has never tried to escape from our yard. He could have destructive tendencies but we watch him closely and discourage him when he looks like he's going to counter surf/gnaw on something he shouldn't. He had really appalling doorway and mealtime manners when we got him and we have been teaching him to wait - but the impatience is still there and if he had an owner who let him get away with it, he'd very quickly regress to being pushy and bratty.

I am not sure how he would be in a different household. I know foster carers who have dogs who behave beautifully at their house but then when rehomed, immediately jump the fence even though they've never showed any inclination to do that while in foster care. We are trying to expose our foster to as many different people and situations as possible, to as many different household appliances and noises as possible but I suppose the worry for me is that perhaps there is something unknown trigger that we just don't know about. I used to read posts about rescue dogs gone wrong and wonder how on earth it happened but now I can't help thinking that foster dogs are frequently in care for a relatively short period of time and it can be hard to expose the dog to all stimuli that it is likely to encounter. On top of that, a dog with issues may not manifest such issues with certain people but may with others. No one in their right mind would rehome a blatantly aggressive, fence-jumping dog - it's possible that some things just manifest later depending on the environment and the owner. I find this a bit scary :p

ETA: I was very anxious/emphatic about not having our dog listed on petrescue until I had finished all of his basic training - I had put together a list of things here that I don't want our foster dogs leaving without. I've often seen rescue dogs listed on petrescue for adoption within days or even on the day they're liberated from the pound and wonder how one earth you can really assess the dog's true nature in such a short period of time.

There is a huge difference between the dogs that need obedience training , neutralisation, socialisation, NILIF, routine, boundaries or whatever to help them learn to be good canine citizens and the ones that have a temperament that is faulty. The first lot of dogs can be helped by quality foster care, and the right home. They are highly adoptable to people who like the qualities of a working breed.

But dogs with serious faults can't simply be trained out of their behaviour, the need the canine equivalent of a mental health worker to work with them, and require a lot more control than is reasonable for the average pet owner to exert. They can never be trusted. They are not suitable to be placed as a pet.

It is really sad that inadequate care, whether by an owner or a foster carer can actually damage a dog to the extent that it is no longer adoptable. It is also really sad that some dogs are born with temperament faults. Neither are the dog's 'fault', both are as a direct result of human action. The mistake some people make is to assume that the damage can or should be fixed. There is no 'fix'.

So how do we know what can be fixed and what cannot? Expert behaviour testing and experience. And rescues need to be run in a way where their process cannot be overridden by other people that form an emotional attachment to the dog.

In an foster program there will always be the occasional dog that gives us a surprise when it turns out to have a serious problem. But that is why we have foster care, to give us time to discover the dog. That's when rescue coordinators have to step up and act responsibly. If an experienced foster carer (who by then has an emotional attachment) cannot deal with that dog, that's a sign that can't be ignored. The dog isn't suitable to be placed as a pet.