Health Problems Or Old Age?

[MsDani]

I have a 13 year old male JR – he is starting to go blind and deaf, nothing major, just due to old age. He has arthritis in his back leg, he’s on twice yearly cartrophen injections, he has Sashas Blend – (I have prolet for him and my female, but it is only ever given when I notice they are uncomfortable, so very rarely) – he has two lumps on either side of his rib cage – they have been tested and are just fatty lumps.

But a couple of weeks ago, I noticed he has dropped his food intake by half. He has chicken necks of a night and biscuits (senior) in the morning. Then I noticed he wasn’t himself and he started to pace at night around our bed. So I took him to the vets (2 weeks ago). They listened to his heart and lungs – fine. Felt his stomach for obstructions/lumps – fine. Checked teeth, overall check of his body for lumps/bumps – fine. But they did notice he had pain in his back, just up from the hip area – so they have given me medication for him – can’t remember the name of it, but it’s liquid and smells like honey. He’s been on that for over a week.

I found out recently that his mother died of kidney failure, so I asked them to test that as well (I was already there, no harm in checking it out). BT showed that 1 of the 3 levels was a little bit high (I think it was the CREA) so they wanted a urine test. Urine was diluted (as he had a big drink) so asked to do another one in a weeks time. That was done Saturday just gone. That showed everything was normal.

Since I found out about his back, I’ve put him back onto his old bed (we bought them new beds) and he is quite happy now, but he’s food intake is still not good. His pooping is fine, he’s weeing fine, he’s a bit stiff with his walking – and he quieter and sleeping a lot.

I’m just wondering if I should take him for more tests eg xray/Blood tests – if so, what should I ask them to check for or if I’m just mistaking all of the changes as medical when it’s just the process of ageing?

This is my first dog, so my first senior!

Edited August 22, 2012 by MsDani

[Sheridan]

If he's pacing, it may be the start of dementia. There is a drug called Vivitonin, which has helped my Grumpy a lot. There's also a Hills Prescription Diet food called B/D. Have a look in the Health section for a thread called Doggie Dementia, which Westiemum started, where we talked about our "demented" dogs.

It may be that if he's not as active, he's not as hungry. Did they do and x-ray or ultrasound?

[kayla1]

Did the vet have any idea as to what was causing the back pain? I have two older dogs with back issues, so with any sign of back pain now the dogs are off to the chiro vet for a thorough check and xrays if needed.

[MsDani]

No, no Xray no Ultrasound.

[Alkhe]

Regarding his food intake, is it possible that he needs or wants something less "bone-y" than chicken necks at night? Perhaps try giving him something a bit softer, like chicken meat or some mince?

If that's stupid advice, someone correct me! I just wouldn't have thought that chicken necks every day would necessarily be the best thing .. ?

[MsDani]

I was thinking chicken necks might be too much for him to digest at his age.

I forgot to mention that he had a bit of diarrhea when we went to the vet, they suggested to put him on Boiled Chicken and rice for a couple of days (no biscuits either). He seemed quite happy on it, but same thing, he wasn't eating much of it.

[KatrinaM]

Maybe a dog chiro would be worth talking to, sounds like start of dementia though.

[Staffyluv]

I think a dog chiro might be able to help if it is his back that is giving him some grief..

Maybe a softer diet for ease of digestion but i would still offer him some bons like chicken wings, necks and maybe even smaller brisket bones to chew on so it keeps his teeth healthy..

Poor little mite, I hope he feels better soon...

[Sheridan]

I would rule out everything else you can before going to a dog chiro. Grumpy has weak back legs and we thought it was because he fell but it wasn't: he has Cushings. A doggy chiro would do nothing for him.

My big example is my first kerry who we took to a doggy chiro and he screamed when manipulated. Nothing wrong with his back, he had an autoimmune disease.

So those recommending a chiro, my view is that unless you can confirm that it is an injury, you may be actually causing an injury by taking your dog to a chiro as well as wasting your money.

[kayla1]

A chiro vet will not necessarily do manipulations though. The idea is that they are more likely to be able to diagnose back issues correctly, and then appropriate treatment can begin (which may or may not include manipulations).

My older dogs have back problems that were not diagnosed correctly until I took them to a chiro vet, and they had been to multiple vets previously. Coco, who has the more severe issues, has never been manipulated and never will be - but taking him to the chiro vet was the best thing I did.

[Monteba]

Ive just changed my old girl over to chicken mince rather than the necks as she was also not eating well

She has improved out of sight with her food intake again

[Poodlecrazy]

I have two almost 14 I just changed their diet to from raw and bones

They still like to have a neck but takes a lot longer to eat

Because a renal prolapse I have to give one of mine fiber so she doesn't strain at all

Some might not agree but I make them a roo meatloaf use brown rice and minced vegetables

Once a week add a minced heart

Works like a treat and they both clean up their bowls

[Sayly]

I would rule out everything else you can before going to a dog chiro. Grumpy has weak back legs and we thought it was because he fell but it wasn't: he has Cushings. A doggy chiro would do nothing for him.

My big example is my first kerry who we took to a doggy chiro and he screamed when manipulated. Nothing wrong with his back, he had an autoimmune disease.

So those recommending a chiro, my view is that unless you can confirm that it is an injury, you may be actually causing an injury by taking your dog to a chiro as well as wasting your money.

I think that depends on the chiro you see though. There is a fantastic chiro here who is a fully qualified vet. He never manipulates a dog if he thinks they don't need it. A few times I have taken one of my girls in, he's given her a thorough check and taken a good history, and then told me she needed absolutely nothing done to her (and never charged me for her either). My girls always come out moving better than they did going in (or the same if there's no injury).

However, a poor chiro can certainly cause injury. This is something I've seen on friend's dogs who have been manipulated by a non-veterinarian so called "chiro".

[westiemum]

If he's pacing, it may be the start of dementia. There is a drug called Vivitonin, which has helped my Grumpy a lot. There's also a Hills Prescription Diet food called B/D. Have a look in the Health section for a thread called Doggie Dementia, which Westiemum started, where we talked about our "demented" dogs.

It may be that if he's not as active, he's not as hungry. Did they do and x-ray or ultrasound?

This. Ms Dani as Sheridan says it sounds a bit 'dementing' to me - the pacing at night is very typical - and the sooner you get onto it the better. Have a read of the first few pages of the dementia thread - I think it might be helpful :) Is he doing anything else odd? Getting into corners and can't wok out how to get out? Growling or barking into thin air? A good vet is your best friend here. :)

Edited August 7, 2012 by westiemum

[MsDani]

Is he doing anything else odd? Getting into corners and can't wok out how to get out? Growling or barking into thin air? A good vet is your best friend here.

No he's not doing any of that. I'll take him back to the vet and ask them to do xrays/Ultrasounds - rule anything nasty out - and discuss the pacing. He had 2 good nights and then last night, started to pace, but I managed to get him back onto his bed. Usually he will pace and won't settle until he lays next to me, that's why I'm thinking more along the 'discomfort' side as when he's not well, he sticks to me like glue.

Oh and got home last night to find my female has an itchy rash on her tummy! If it doesn't rain, it pours LOL

Edited August 7, 2012 by MsDani

[MsDani]

I just made an appointment for them this afternoon, so I'll let you know how we go. :)

[westiemum]

I just made an appointment for them this afternoon, so I'll let you know how we go. :)

God luck - will be very interested to hear how you get on :)

[Crisovar]

Find a good Vet Chiro and you can do it all in one place.

[MsDani]

Ok I'm back from his normal vet, told her what the other vet found/did. She checked him over thoroughly. He had a little bit of pain in his tummy area (up near the ribs) but he really warned her when she touched his back (I think she said the L2 or L3 vertebrae), - She went over the worst case scenarios, herniated disc (what would be involved with that), pancreas etc etc. But everything is looking more towards the back as she pointed out that he wasn't looking up at us. I did notice that, but I thought it was because he was 'down', now I feel bad. So that would explain the pacing at night, because he can't get comfortable. Poor little man.

So, for now, he's on valium (1 at night) to help keep him calm, to relax the muscles and to give him a proper rest for the next 5 days and then go back and see her. He's still to stay on the pain medication. Strictly no jumping, playing, running etc.

If he hasn't shown any improvement, we will look into Xrays/Ultrasounds. We want to try the medication first before putting him through the rest. I also have to ask the other vet to send through the results of the blood tests he did over a week ago. As she wants it on her record so they can keep an eye on his kidneys (because of his mother) and because one of the levels was a bit high.

I'll come back in and keep you updated.

Thank you to everyone. :)

Oh and my female now has cream for her rash.

[westiemum]

Ok I'm back from his normal vet, told her what the other vet found/did. She checked him over thoroughly. He had a little bit of pain in his tummy area (up near the ribs) but he really warned her when she touched his back (I think she said the L2 or L3 vertebrae), - She went over the worst case scenarios, herniated disc (what would be involved with that), pancreas etc etc. But everything is looking more towards the back as she pointed out that he wasn't looking up at us. I did notice that, but I thought it was because he was 'down', now I feel bad. So that would explain the pacing at night, because he can't get comfortable. Poor little man.

So, for now, he's on valium (1 at night) to help keep him calm, to relax the muscles and to give him a proper rest for the next 5 days and then go back and see her. He's still to stay on the pain medication. Strictly no jumping, playing, running etc.

If he hasn't shown any improvement, we will look into Xrays/Ultrasounds. We want to try the medication first before putting him through the rest. I also have to ask the other vet to send through the results of the blood tests he did over a week ago. As she wants it on her record so they can keep an eye on his kidneys (because of his mother) and because one of the levels was a bit high.

I'll come back in and keep you updated.

Thank you to everyone. :)

Oh and my female now has cream for her rash.

Its good to have a plan Ms Dani - and what you've described with your vet makes absolute sense and explains all your observations. Will be very interested to read your next progress report. :)