Agility Training - What To Do

[fuzzy82]

I can see the club's point though, it could have felt that you were criticising how they train. In a club setting it is hard to accomodate everyone and certainly the full on SG style would put off a lot of newcomers who aren't that serious. What I have done is told my club I am doing SG's online contact course and would it be possible to use the lower equipment when I want to put my end behaviour on the equipment, rather than point out any differences with club training. My club is pro SG so the main issue is how to get acess for just that one thing without causing problems with the classes who are using the lower equipment on the night. I already compete so the people in charge know who I am.

The part I am going to struggle with is access to the very low A-Frame that SG wants, that is going to be tricky for all people at at club - 3 ft apex. I am trying to get special permission to put the club's A-Frame down that low as they don't usually put it that low, will try to get everyone who is doing the course to do it at the same time. My club is fine with you doing your own thing, but needing to change the height of contact equipment is much more tricky and will require more negotiation.

I see now that I shouldn't have explained about how SG does it. The only reason I did that was because I wasn't sure how familiar they were, and I wanted them to see where I was coming from. In hindsight I should have just asked a simple question about lowering the contact equipment, but judging from their reply the answer would have been no anyway.

I built a seesaw on the weekend, so I can now do all the seesaw related stuff at home, and the only thing I really need is a low A-frame. When I emailed the club I thought I would also need to use their seesaw, which is why I wanted to explain that that's how SG does it, so they didn't think I was just making it up on my own and had decided that my way was better. They claim to like SG, so I thought they'd be happy to maybe learn more about how SG would train the seesaw and maybe actually show some interest in seeing how she would do it, even if they don't want to change their class over it.

I'm reluctant to do a private session with a trainer, because that's like saying "I don't really want to train your way, I want to train the SG way, and I just need your equipment". Wouldn't that be rude?

[fuzzy82]

Do clubs not have foundation classes that use low equipment? I don't see what the issue is if that is the case. I am certainly no experienced agility trainer, far from it, but I have started adult foundation classes with my mum's dog but have spent time before going to class getting foundations in place, like the beginnings of contacts. The instructor is catering to the class as they need to, and showed everyone how to walk their dogs over the very very low dogwalk and spoke to them about the 2o2o contact method and how some people like to backchain in. Instead of waiting in line with everyone else and do the exercises they're doing, I work my way around the baby equipment that is set up and do my own thing. The instructor is ok with that and if I need help with something, I will ask for help. I'm there to get handling help as that is my biggest trouble, but as for training foundations, I know how I want to do it in a roundabout way, so am going to utilise class time best I can with access to the baby equipment instead of doing what everyone else is doing. Once we move up and start sequencing things together is when I will join back into the class.

You are very lucky to be in WA :) They are about 10 years ahead of the rest of Australia when it comes to agility and overseas instructors love visiting you because you are much closer to them in terms of progression. The Eastern states are in general (not saying all clubs or all instructors) a long way behind in their thinking.

One of the biggest differences between WA and the eastern states is the foundation work. I loved participating in your training sessions in the lead up to the Perth nationals as they were a real eye opener for us in the way that training is run. There is a huge emphasis on doing things right from the start, which you have highlighted in your post. Unfortunately most clubs over here push dogs too quickly and the difference is very noticeable when you look at the end product. The most successful dogs on this side of the country belong to experienced people who have done a fair bit of training outside of a club environment rather than following the club training programs. Unlike WA dogs who seem to be successful regardless of whether they go through the club program or a home program as there is not a lot of difference between the 2.

If there was no other influencing factors I would move to WA in a heartbeat purely for the agility training :D

That's interesting. I actually did find the club's approach a bit old fashioned. They train a contact as one finished behaviour, rather than breaking it down into several and making sure it's done right from the start. I did always think that if someone wanted to get serious about agility they would have to go back to basics and re-train a lot after doing the beginner's class.

But the club isn't all bad, I don't want it to seem like I'm criticising everything they do. They do use crate games and 2 x 2 for the weave poles, so it's like they've tried to improve, but aren't quite there yet.

And I understand that they cater to pet owner who want to have fun and would get bored if they didn't get to do the equipment, not people who are serious about the sport and want to do it right from the start, and there's nothing wrong with that, I just wish they could also cater to people who are serious about the sport.

[Kavik]

I can see the club's point though, it could have felt that you were criticising how they train. In a club setting it is hard to accomodate everyone and certainly the full on SG style would put off a lot of newcomers who aren't that serious. What I have done is told my club I am doing SG's online contact course and would it be possible to use the lower equipment when I want to put my end behaviour on the equipment, rather than point out any differences with club training. My club is pro SG so the main issue is how to get acess for just that one thing without causing problems with the classes who are using the lower equipment on the night. I already compete so the people in charge know who I am.

The part I am going to struggle with is access to the very low A-Frame that SG wants, that is going to be tricky for all people at at club - 3 ft apex. I am trying to get special permission to put the club's A-Frame down that low as they don't usually put it that low, will try to get everyone who is doing the course to do it at the same time. My club is fine with you doing your own thing, but needing to change the height of contact equipment is much more tricky and will require more negotiation.

I see now that I shouldn't have explained about how SG does it. The only reason I did that was because I wasn't sure how familiar they were, and I wanted them to see where I was coming from. In hindsight I should have just asked a simple question about lowering the contact equipment, but judging from their reply the answer would have been no anyway.

I built a seesaw on the weekend, so I can now do all the seesaw related stuff at home, and the only thing I really need is a low A-frame. When I emailed the club I thought I would also need to use their seesaw, which is why I wanted to explain that that's how SG does it, so they didn't think I was just making it up on my own and had decided that my way was better. They claim to like SG, so I thought they'd be happy to maybe learn more about how SG would train the seesaw and maybe actually show some interest in seeing how she would do it, even if they don't want to change their class over it.

I'm reluctant to do a private session with a trainer, because that's like saying "I don't really want to train your way, I want to train the SG way, and I just need your equipment". Wouldn't that be rude?

I think the private lesson would depend on the trainer (or if you have friends with equipment?). If you brought your training notes which explain how you have trained, and show what you need to do on the equipment, they may be willing to help you. There may even be someone who is into SG and/or has done the course! I for one would love an extra pair of eyes at my sessions to pick up on stuff that I know I don't notice when I am concentrating on all the mechanics, engagement and rewarding my dog.

With training individual obstacles, sometimes what seems like a great way like eg 2 x 2 weaves, would be difficult to implement at a club. I was instructing at a club a couple of years ago and we were discussing how we were going to train the weaves in class. Someone suggested 2x2. But 2x2 requires experience shaping for a start, and not all beginners understand how to do this. If you do not know how to shape a behaviour and your dog does not know to offer behaviours, it would be very difficult to train that method. I had to watch the DVD several times to understand how it works, and I am not an absolute beginner! Also, the allignment and number of poles would be different for every dog, and that would be a nightmare to set up in a club class environment. I suggested the slanted pole method with a separate 2 or 3 pole exercise to teach entries. That way the set up would not have to change so much between dogs.

Edited August 14, 2012 by Kavik

[Tassie]

Do clubs not have foundation classes that use low equipment? I don't see what the issue is if that is the case. I am certainly no experienced agility trainer, far from it, but I have started adult foundation classes with my mum's dog but have spent time before going to class getting foundations in place, like the beginnings of contacts. The instructor is catering to the class as they need to, and showed everyone how to walk their dogs over the very very low dogwalk and spoke to them about the 2o2o contact method and how some people like to backchain in. Instead of waiting in line with everyone else and do the exercises they're doing, I work my way around the baby equipment that is set up and do my own thing. The instructor is ok with that and if I need help with something, I will ask for help. I'm there to get handling help as that is my biggest trouble, but as for training foundations, I know how I want to do it in a roundabout way, so am going to utilise class time best I can with access to the baby equipment instead of doing what everyone else is doing. Once we move up and start sequencing things together is when I will join back into the class.

You are very lucky to be in WA :) They are about 10 years ahead of the rest of Australia when it comes to agility and overseas instructors love visiting you because you are much closer to them in terms of progression. The Eastern states are in general (not saying all clubs or all instructors) a long way behind in their thinking.

One of the biggest differences between WA and the eastern states is the foundation work. I loved participating in your training sessions in the lead up to the Perth nationals as they were a real eye opener for us in the way that training is run. There is a huge emphasis on doing things right from the start, which you have highlighted in your post. Unfortunately most clubs over here push dogs too quickly and the difference is very noticeable when you look at the end product. The most successful dogs on this side of the country belong to experienced people who have done a fair bit of training outside of a club environment rather than following the club training programs. Unlike WA dogs who seem to be successful regardless of whether they go through the club program or a home program as there is not a lot of difference between the 2.

If there was no other influencing factors I would move to WA in a heartbeat purely for the agility training :D

DC - and if it wasn't so darned hot in summer over there, I'd be right on your heels ... cos it's not only agility they excel in - I'd be there for obedience and DWD as well. :D

Sorry for the little O?T .... back to normal transmission. :)

[pie]

This got me thinking and I don't believe I've seen many of our 'senior' agility people (or people training a second dog/puppy with trialing as their goal) doing our structured classes as such, they are more for first time agility people, but some of the seniors use them to get their dogs used to the environment but mostly do their own thing, or are in the class but don't necessarily do everything they are told if they think it will conflict with their plan (this is what I did because for my second dog I wanted all the obstacles done confidently before I did any sequencing) or are the instructor and have their dog out to demonstrate.

I did the classes, all of the instructors were accommodating of different things I wanted to do (like opting out of channel weaves for example) and still helped me but they did push onto sequencing too quickly for my liking, so I broke it up as much as I could, but it also depends on the instructor. There was talk of splitting into two classes at adult foundation level - those who just wanted to do social agility and those that wanted to trial with the latter having a much stronger focus on foundation - I hope they do that in the future.

Fuzzy - are there some othe people doing the SG course in your area perhaps? Maybe you could meet up and someone may have access to equipment you could use?

[Podengo]

Very true Amypie, it's the same here in NZ. My agility friends in the USA attend special classes for experienced handlers, wish we had those classes here!

[skip]

Hi

I know exactly how you feel!

I am lucky enough to live in an area where we have three agility clubs.... and all have different plans. And come to think of it .. we have two obedience clubs as well. There is some history to the creation of this many clubs and I am fairly new to the area but all I can say is.. More access to TRAINING. YAH!!

I attend four clubs, two agility and two obedience, and teach at two agility clubs ( pretty new to teaching thou).

Getting along at all can be a minefield but worth the effort. Some clubs have very different teaching ideas, at direct opposites at times. I remind myself to appreciate that all trainers are volenteers. Be seen to listen even if at times you think the opposite. I am always polite and try to be attentive regardless. However if they are doing something i don't want to do I can manage to either not do it or excuse myself for a second. This happens mainly in obedience at the moment as I have a kelpie pup and I play tug to reward periodically. So I walk away and play until I join the class again. Classes go too long for a baby and i want perfect attention but can only do short bursts. I also reward a lot as I've been taught (agility) and one trainer disagrees. As you say it is better if the club knows you and you at least have experience competing etc.

Maybe I wouldn't have emailed personally but spoken face to face. You do have to suck it up and try to get along. I understand you are not incorrect but you need to make peace in order to get what you can from what training (equipment!)is available. I would explain you intend to train seriously and want to follow the SG method. Ask to attend class and participate when able and not join in if exercise unsuitable. Explain you appreciate their efforts but are only comfortable doing some things for now. Downplay the extra stuff you want and at first you may need to make do until you prove yourself.

I also think that if you are seen to be always ready to set up and help out, people are more accepting of you. Agility clubs LOVE you if you get there and set up etc.

I have had to step out once in obedience and explain I didn't agree with the exercise and found it dangerous (very hard to do ) and another time I simply did the exercise but did it very half hearted and avoided the issue.

I attend a fantastic agiltiy club with a structured lesson plan. Foundation is really hard core and follows a handling system. It is so good and I am so lucky as are my dogs who benefit. But we have another club where they promote agility as being more fun and a big game. Recently due to inability to get a chief instructor, the club decided that a roster of different instructors was the way to go. Not surprising that no one wants to be chief instructor as its hard work and you don't get to train your own dogs. Funny plan but so far it is working, least the club is still going and people are still enjoying agility.

I said I would help here even thou I train differently. Many people do only want to get out and have a play with their dogs. At the more serious club most drop out due to the massive ammount of homework (training wise). So maybe each club has its place and different clubs provide different things to people.

I see you have another club to go to. Good luck with that. I would try and maintain good terms with the old club too. Never know when you want another club to play on their equipment.

I built equipment at home, even if it is only a smaller cheap version. Planks of wood for contacts, two planks on a foot stool made a low A frame. Used a cat tunnel for a tunnel as had little dogs. Made the table.

Always have a clear plan in mind and don't be swayed by peer pressure. Just be aware of your goals.

Happy training.

Edited August 14, 2012 by skip

[RubyStar]

This got me thinking and I don't believe I've seen many of our 'senior' agility people (or people training a second dog/puppy with trialing as their goal) doing our structured classes as such, they are more for first time agility people, but some of the seniors use them to get their dogs used to the environment but mostly do their own thing, or are in the class but don't necessarily do everything they are told if they think it will conflict with their plan (this is what I did because for my second dog I wanted all the obstacles done confidently before I did any sequencing) or are the instructor and have their dog out to demonstrate.

I did the classes, all of the instructors were accommodating of different things I wanted to do (like opting out of channel weaves for example) and still helped me but they did push onto sequencing too quickly for my liking, so I broke it up as much as I could, but it also depends on the instructor. There was talk of splitting into two classes at adult foundation level - those who just wanted to do social agility and those that wanted to trial with the latter having a much stronger focus on foundation - I hope they do that in the future.

Very true, Amy. In class last night, I was talking to the instructor and she mentioned she'd like to get some weaves out. I asked 2x2 or stick in the ground ones (as I was going to go and get them for her). She said "2x2, I wish!" and we discussed how she needs to instruct for the "class" and how she'd like to teach people the right way from the start (not those exact words). We agreed that it would be good if there was a class for those who were interested in more foundations with focus to eventually trial, and those who are there for recreation. The club has good foundations but does have a focus of just getting people up through the classes without "lingering" too long.

I am in a class because I need help, and being in a class motivates me to get out there and train and gives me access to some great baby equipment. However, I do my own thing most of the time and when I opted out of sequencing too much together last night, instructor was ok with that. I felt it was too much too soon. When I stopped after a jump > tunnel to reward, she informed the class it was very much ok to do this and don't be afraid to do it, as she is there to teach US how to handle, not the dogs (IYKWIM).

[RubyStar]

You are very lucky to be in WA :) They are about 10 years ahead of the rest of Australia when it comes to agility and overseas instructors love visiting you because you are much closer to them in terms of progression. The Eastern states are in general (not saying all clubs or all instructors) a long way behind in their thinking.

One of the biggest differences between WA and the eastern states is the foundation work. I loved participating in your training sessions in the lead up to the Perth nationals as they were a real eye opener for us in the way that training is run. There is a huge emphasis on doing things right from the start, which you have highlighted in your post. Unfortunately most clubs over here push dogs too quickly and the difference is very noticeable when you look at the end product. The most successful dogs on this side of the country belong to experienced people who have done a fair bit of training outside of a club environment rather than following the club training programs. Unlike WA dogs who seem to be successful regardless of whether they go through the club program or a home program as there is not a lot of difference between the 2.

If there was no other influencing factors I would move to WA in a heartbeat purely for the agility training :D

Funny you say that, because I always thought Eastern States had fantastic foundations classes, with focus on handling systems (as skip mentions). I am either oblivious to it, or we don't have that here, as I don't follow any sort of handling system cos I've never been taught any! I would really love classes here that really focused on foundations more and handling systems for those serious about it. Unfortunately, even classes here cater to mainly "pet" people, just out for a bit of fun with their pooch and who would get disheartened quickly if they can't run Fido over the A-Frame within the first couple of weeks!

I attend a fantastic agiltiy club with a structured lesson plan. Foundation is really hard core and follows a handling system.

[JulesP]

I'm the opposite, lol. I want to do 'pet' agility but the clubs around here are super serious about it.