Full Frame V Crop Cameras

[tlc]

Ive just been thinking about this and I think the answer is clear you will get the same results no matter which camera you use its just a matter of using the right settings for your particular camera to achieve the same result as you would get on a full frame. I hope that makes sense, so if you and a person shooting with a FF were standing next to each other, the person with the full frame would need to get closer to the subject to get the same picture you would. Which then i guess makes your 35mm question valid, if the person with a FF had the 35mm lens then you would stand at the same spot to get the same pic. I think. :laugh:

Edited August 3, 2012 by tlc

[Kirislin]

Thanks for the replies, I am finally starting to understand what i have failed to understand for years, its all making sense to me now.

Kirislin, those shots are outstanding! Just curious do you use fully manual or are you shooting in AV? I never ever used AV with my Nikon, mainly S or P and that was it but I have found using AV is heaps better.

I chop and change my settings and often use manual, but I dont mean manual focus, as in, I dont flick the switch on the actual lens to turn off focusing, but I often use manual to have full control over shutter speed, ISO, WB, and aperture.

[kja]

This often gets people :) After a while you stop thinking about it and just use the lens that works for your needs.

"true" focal range is equiv to full frame as it's based on film. So a 50mm is a 50mm on a Full frame; a 30mm is "50mm" on a crop.

the 50mm rocks on all cameras :)

[Lollipup]

This often gets people :) After a while you stop thinking about it and just use the lens that works for your needs.

"true" focal range is equiv to full frame as it's based on film. So a 50mm is a 50mm on a Full frame; a 30mm is "50mm" on a crop.

the 50mm rocks on all cameras :)

But what makes the 50mm rock on all cameras when the focal range can vary? If someone with a FF said to me - you have to get a 50mm because its a good focal distance, does that mean that I would translate it to a 30mm because my camera is cropped? I'm confused.

I mentioned in another thread how my friend saw my photos and went and bought the same camera but got a 30mm prime instead of a 50mm like I did. Maybe the store guy that recommended this to her was taking crop factor into account? Yet she finds the lens too wide for dogs shots, even though its on a cropped camera. So does this mean a 50mm on a FF would also be too wide for dog shots? If I sound confused its because I am lol.

(Kja, did you get my PM?)

[kja]

Mostly it's because scene is very comfortable for the eye to view - on any camera. It will produce a tighter scene on a crop than on a full frame, but it is still usually quite pleasing. Shooting it gives you enough room to not be up in anyone's face.

It's very affordable - even the 1.4 isn't too badly priced - for such a wide open lens. When you look at longer focal lengths when you get wide open glass (2, 1.8, 1.4, 1.2 etc) you're looking at way more money and way more weight.

Most people get into a mode where they love to shoot wide open or close to it so the backgrounds are nice and creamy. The 50mm is the initial go to lens for all of the above.

The 30mm is a fantastic lens that offers more flexibility than the 50mm because it is just a bit wider and it's extremely well priced, to boot. It can be more difficult for people to use - I'm not sure why really.

"Too wide" is subjective. Why is it too wide? Don't like the look? Can't get close enough? I use my 30mm and even wider lenses on my pets with no problems. Obviously wide isn't my go to choice if I want to fill the frame with a running dog, though. It's all about choosing the RIGHT focal length for the job. You wouldn't drive a moped during a motocross race - it's just not the right tool, though both tools are great for their respective purposes :)

My advice is don't worry about it - you'll just make yourself nuts for absolutely no purpose. Figure out what you are comfortable with and head to those lenses. You have a zoom, that's one of the great things about a zoom pre purchasing dedicated primes. The ONLY time you'd have to think about it is if you were buying a Canon EFS lens mount and owned a full frame - they don't work :)

[Lollipup]

Thanks Kja, that makes sense. I'm sure after some time and experience I'll know which lenses suit me best. But I already love the 50mm. I haven't tried my friend's 30mm but she said she had to get really close to the dog to get the same kind of look I was getting from further away. Which makes sense. :)

[huga]

I agree, I think the 50mm is fantastic - crop or ff. I don't really understand the thought process. Too close? Easy, take a step backwards :)

[Linda K]

yep, exactly what they said - the 50mm 1.4 rocks because it is the cheapest way fr even the enthusiast to be able to shoot wide open with a decent lens, compared to the arm and leg you need to give up for the others. Being what they called in the old days "normal" lens, also referred to it is the same as the naked eye, pretty much what you see through the lens is the same as you would view it - you do not have compression from the telephoto effect that you do with a longer lens, nor the wide angle distortion from a shorter lens. It is also a great way to learn and get used to working with, it is nice and light, and I love mine - if I could only ever have 1 lens for the rest of my life, it would be this one and I would make do with foot zooming.

[anniek]

I agree, I think the 50mm is fantastic - crop or ff. I don't really understand the thought process. Too close? Easy, take a step backwards :)

sorry - my house is way too small - need the 30mm for the greyhounds indoors as there is no where to step back to :)

[huga]

Yep, ok - I get that. I was referring to outside. Should have been specific.

[m-sass]

Hi guys, I have been wondering about this for ages and especially since I got my 7D. When I was in the shop the guy who sold me my camera is a Nikon man and tried to talk me into going back to D7000 but I had made up my mind between the two so I stuck with the Canon, so then he said well if your going to go Canon why not go with the 5D, of course I wasn't prepared for this mainly due to the initial cost, (I had initially thought about it but due to the weight of the full frames didn't think I would manage one) but if I upgrade again (which won't be for a long time) the logical choice would be a to a full frame.

So my question is this what sort of differences are there with a full frame body that there isn't with a crop, the most obvious one being the picture is equivalent to the 35mm, which I understand if you shoot a crop next to a full frame with the same lens on the full frame shot will have more picture. So what else do the full frame bodies have, do they have more features? I know the mega pixel rate is higher.

I know there is a lot here that have full frame cameras now, Huga, Snook, you guys spring to mind. Kirislin, you have mentioned a couple of times about one of your lenses not fitting on a full frame are you thinking about upgrading??

I remember something someone said a while ago, I think it was Shell and this was one of the things that sold me not he 7D, she said the 5D was not real good for action shots and dogs running towards her, she may have been talking about the mk2 not the mk3, I have read about a lot of issues with the mk2 and the auto focus, have they fixed this problem with the mk3

So hit me people, tell me the ins and outs of the full frame and help me understand why they are better or is it that they are just different.

I know I won't regret getting the 7D and couldn't afford the Full frame anyway but just curious and its been something Ive been thinking about for ages, I can read what the differences are but would love to hear in easy to understand language what users think of them.

I have a D7000 which is a good camera, except the buffer fills too quickly on action shots.......a 7D absolutely smokes a D7000 in continous bursts and has a faster auto focus, but some of the full frame cameras are not too flash in speed either for capturing doggy action like the 5D mkII and D800.........it's hard to find better I think for action than the 7D or D300S unless you go top of the range in full frame......ouch on the price of those!!!

[Kirislin]

I have a D7000 which is a good camera, except the buffer fills too quickly on action shots.......a 7D absolutely smokes a D7000 in continous bursts and has a faster auto focus, but some of the full frame cameras are not too flash in speed either for capturing doggy action like the 5D mkII and D800.........it's hard to find better I think for action than the 7D or D300S unless you go top of the range in full frame......ouch on the price of those!!!

I think this has more to do with the size and/or capacity of your card.

[Lollipup]

I have a D7000 which is a good camera, except the buffer fills too quickly on action shots.......a 7D absolutely smokes a D7000 in continous bursts and has a faster auto focus, but some of the full frame cameras are not too flash in speed either for capturing doggy action like the 5D mkII and D800.........it's hard to find better I think for action than the 7D or D300S unless you go top of the range in full frame......ouch on the price of those!!!

I think this has more to do with the size and/or capacity of your card.

I have a D7000 with class 10 memory cards in it and haven't experienced any trouble with it so far? I've done a few continuous bursts on high speed and it seemed to cope well

[tlc]

I don't think m-sass, meant that there was a problem with the D7000 only that the 7D takes more continuous bursts for action. If you watch the comparisons between the two cameras the 7D can take more continuous shots in a row with out slowing down. So if you have both side by side and continuously had your finger on the shutter, the 7D would be still going once the D7000 stopped this is one of the things I initially liked about the 7D and was probably the decider, both of them are great cameras!

[Lollipup]

Ooohhh ok gotcha :)

[tlc]

Fund an interesting article on 7D and the crop factor. HERE it makes it easy to understand. Obviously the guy who wrte it loves his 7D :laugh:

[m-sass]

I have a D7000 which is a good camera, except the buffer fills too quickly on action shots.......a 7D absolutely smokes a D7000 in continous bursts and has a faster auto focus, but some of the full frame cameras are not too flash in speed either for capturing doggy action like the 5D mkII and D800.........it's hard to find better I think for action than the 7D or D300S unless you go top of the range in full frame......ouch on the price of those!!!

I think this has more to do with the size and/or capacity of your card.

I did buy a Sandisk Extreme Pro 16g card but it didn't help much in 14 bit raw where I can only get about 5 or 6 frames before it slows down to like 2fps or stops completely? A friend's 7D I shot with reeled out 15 frames at full speed easily in raw, the longer buffer and 8fps of the D7 was noticable over my D7000. I could have a setting or two wrong also still learning my way around the camera?

I have a D7000 with class 10 memory cards in it and haven't experienced any trouble with it so far? I've done a few continuous bursts on high speed and it seemed to cope well

Are you shooting in JPEG or NEF? JPEG is ok with the smaller files it's in NEF where mine really slows up......the Nikon manual says it should do 14 frames in NEF on continuous burst, but mine won't come close to that??.

Edited August 6, 2012 by m-sass

[m-sass]

I don't think m-sass, meant that there was a problem with the D7000 only that the 7D takes more continuous bursts for action. If you watch the comparisons between the two cameras the 7D can take more continuous shots in a row with out slowing down. So if you have both side by side and continuously had your finger on the shutter, the 7D would be still going once the D7000 stopped this is one of the things I initially liked about the 7D and was probably the decider, both of them are great cameras!

Yes, that's what I mean........I didn't understand the buffer thing when I bought the camera, but researching the situation I found that the D7000 is short on buffer compared with the 7D......in fact I think the 60D is larger in the buffer than the Nikon too??

[Lollipup]

I have a D7000 which is a good camera, except the buffer fills too quickly on action shots.......a 7D absolutely smokes a D7000 in continous bursts and has a faster auto focus, but some of the full frame cameras are not too flash in speed either for capturing doggy action like the 5D mkII and D800.........it's hard to find better I think for action than the 7D or D300S unless you go top of the range in full frame......ouch on the price of those!!!

I think this has more to do with the size and/or capacity of your card.

I did buy a Sandisk Extreme Pro 16g card but it didn't help much in 14 bit raw where I can only get about 5 or 6 frames before it slows down to like 2fps or stops completely? A friend's 7D I shot with reeled out 15 frames at full speed easily in raw, the longer buffer and 8fps of the D7 was noticable over my D7000. I could have a setting or two wrong also still learning my way around the camera?

I have a D7000 with class 10 memory cards in it and haven't experienced any trouble with it so far? I've done a few continuous bursts on high speed and it seemed to cope well

Are you shooting in JPEG or NEF? JPEG is ok with the smaller files it's in NEF where mine really slows up......the Nikon manual says it should do 14 frames in NEF on continuous burst, but mine won't come close to that??.

I have 2 cards in it, one is JPEG and one is NEF. I'll give it a better go later though because I think I have only used continuous earlier on when I only had the one JPEG card in it.

[m-sass]

I have a D7000 which is a good camera, except the buffer fills too quickly on action shots.......a 7D absolutely smokes a D7000 in continous bursts and has a faster auto focus, but some of the full frame cameras are not too flash in speed either for capturing doggy action like the 5D mkII and D800.........it's hard to find better I think for action than the 7D or D300S unless you go top of the range in full frame......ouch on the price of those!!!

I think this has more to do with the size and/or capacity of your card.

I did buy a Sandisk Extreme Pro 16g card but it didn't help much in 14 bit raw where I can only get about 5 or 6 frames before it slows down to like 2fps or stops completely? A friend's 7D I shot with reeled out 15 frames at full speed easily in raw, the longer buffer and 8fps of the D7 was noticable over my D7000. I could have a setting or two wrong also still learning my way around the camera?

I have a D7000 with class 10 memory cards in it and haven't experienced any trouble with it so far? I've done a few continuous bursts on high speed and it seemed to cope well

Are you shooting in JPEG or NEF? JPEG is ok with the smaller files it's in NEF where mine really slows up......the Nikon manual says it should do 14 frames in NEF on continuous burst, but mine won't come close to that??.

I have 2 cards in it, one is JPEG and one is NEF. I'll give it a better go later though because I think I have only used continuous earlier on when I only had the one JPEG card in it.

Please, give your's a try on continous high in 14 bit NEF and see how many frames you get? Mine is about 6 frames then it slows dramatically, it only runs at full speed 6fps for a one second?. I could have the lossy compressed settings wrong perhaps in NEF as I have played around with that a bit too?