Staffyluv Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Hello all, Ziggy is doing pretty well at training... He can do everything that is asked of him (we are still working on the off lead recall). However the trainer has suggested I get him fitted with a halti as he is so strong now and he stills gets really excited when he sees another dog.. So excited that he just wants to make a bee line for the other dog... He is super friendly but he is so string now that he is starting to really pull. If it is just him and I walking to the park or going for a awlak and we dont see any ither digs, he is pretty good most of the time. So I have come to ask the wealth of knowledge at DOL for suggestions on which halti would be best for a strong dog that only really pulls when he sees another dog.. I thought maybe one of those head halter ones (gentle leader, I think they are called and i think that is what our trainer was referring to) But as I have never needed one before I thought it prudent to ask opinions before going to the pet shop to get one fitted... Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) I have used these before with SBT's with great success http://www.kumalongs...504faf031a18e78 I was skeptical but they really work! Edited July 31, 2012 by Clyde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) Oh so that is what she was talking about.. Our trainer also suggested a front clip harness but I had no idea what she was on about,.. Thanks ETA, he is snoring his head off at the moment, so I will measure him tomorrow and order one.. Edited July 31, 2012 by Staffyluv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) 'halti' is a brand name of a type of head halter , just like 'gentle leader' :) Good luck in your obedience quest ..perhaps a different training style may help, as well ? Edited July 31, 2012 by persephone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zug Zug Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I find the halti a great tool for the situation you describe Big thumbs up from me You won't need it forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.H.M Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I used the black dog halti on Jess for a while when she was a puppy, worked ok. I let some of the bad habits creep back though so she walks ahead of me now and pulls occasionally. But I just stop and call her to my side and she calms down and doesn't pull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 'alti' is a brand name of a type of head halter , just like 'gentle leader' :) Good luck in your obedience quest ..perhaps a different training style may help, as well ? Thanks pers... It's not him, it's me.. I am way to soft on him and he gets pushy with me... I can see what I am doing and I am working on it.. Our trainer is awesome, she is like a female version if the dog whisperer.. She brings her 'pack' with her every week and uses them to demonstrate.. She only has small classes (only 4 of us). My problem is that every time Ziggy has been around a group of dogs, he has been allowed to play.. I need him to focus on me the whole lesson but he gets about half an hour in and all he wants is to play, so he loses focus and gets restless.. It's all a learning curve.. I wish I had taken him to a class earlier. We will get there.. Zig has a great personality and he is a great dog... He is never going to do agility or anything like that but we will get him to a point that he uses his manners all the time (not just at home).. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) I use a front attach harness on Weez and find it works great when he reacts, it's much easier to get his attention back to me than with a regular harness or collar, which he can just lean into :) I have a Sensation (sense-ation? Something like that) harness. I worry about their sensitive noses in a head collar, but I haven't looked into it much. Since staffs have a lot more chest than nose I would personally go for a harness :laugh: Edited July 31, 2012 by Weasels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zug Zug Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Dogs like Zig love agility.... :) All that wild fun and jumping around. Even more cool than playing with another dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Perhaps look at a control unleashed and the "look at that" (LAT) game. The halti will only mask the problem it wont fix it. LAT will also help with your focus problem. I also much prefer the harness rather than a head collar in the mean time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 Perhaps look at a control unleashed and the "look at that" (LAT) game. The halti will only mask the problem it wont fix it. LAT will also help with your focus problem. I also much prefer the harness rather than a head collar in the mean time. This is one of the things I am having problems with (still). At home, even with other people around or at the park on our own, I can get him to do just about everything (even his recall is awesome)... As soon as there is another dog around, I lose him.. He is more interested in the other dog or dogs... I gave him half his dinner last Friday night and no breakfast, so he would be really hungry at training and focus on me (with the food). I had raw mince and liver treats, which he loves... After about 15 minutes, not even the food could entice him from wanting to play. He was totally focused on the other dogs... He values tennis balls higher than food, even when he is hungry he will chase a ball non stop for ages... I put him in the car for a few minutes but as soon as he was out, he was pulling towards the other dogs... Moreso the 2 puppies in the group.. Look at me works great but not when there are other dogs, not even with his favourite foods... It really is frustrating but he is much improved on what he was like, so I am hoping with persistence from me and constant training he will eventually turn a corner... I really do wish I had made the time to take him to classes before now.. He would be great at agility or flyball (he is tennis ball crazy) if he could focus long enough to go through the course.. Bless him, he would see another dog and be off to play.. All in all, I think he is a pretty awesome dog... I am sure he will get there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) - will he chase a ball when other dogs are around? - how far away from other dogs can you get his attention? - will he work in the same park that you train in when no other dogs are there? Edit - nevermind, questions superceded by Jumabaar's excellent post :laugh: Edited July 31, 2012 by Weasels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) Perhaps look at a control unleashed and the "look at that" (LAT) game. The halti will only mask the problem it wont fix it. LAT will also help with your focus problem. I also much prefer the harness rather than a head collar in the mean time. This is one of the things I am having problems with (still). At home, even with other people around or at the park on our own, I can get him to do just about everything (even his recall is awesome)... As soon as there is another dog around, I lose him.. He is more interested in the other dog or dogs... I gave him half his dinner last Friday night and no breakfast, so he would be really hungry at training and focus on me (with the food). I had raw mince and liver treats, which he loves... After about 15 minutes, not even the food could entice him from wanting to play. He was totally focused on the other dogs... He values tennis balls higher than food, even when he is hungry he will chase a ball non stop for ages... I put him in the car for a few minutes but as soon as he was out, he was pulling towards the other dogs... Moreso the 2 puppies in the group.. Look at me works great but not when there are other dogs, not even with his favourite foods... It really is frustrating but he is much improved on what he was like, so I am hoping with persistence from me and constant training he will eventually turn a corner... I really do wish I had made the time to take him to classes before now.. He would be great at agility or flyball (he is tennis ball crazy) if he could focus long enough to go through the course.. Bless him, he would see another dog and be off to play.. All in all, I think he is a pretty awesome dog... I am sure he will get there I have worked with a dog like this- I used to go to obedience classes and work in the carpark!! He had to learn to work in the presence of other dogs/distractions. Each week I could move a little closer- to the point where we just on the cusp of him losing focus moving back and forth to do harder work at a greater distance, and do easy work as we moved closer. LAT really helped with this as well as a few other techniques. Mind you he has only ever been worked on a flat collar or martingale- because if I was working at the right distance I didnt need a tool to keep him focused. ETA- I used to give this dog a treat for taking a treat to begin with because he was too focused on the dogs to notice the food!! He was the definition of 'easy wins' for quite a few weeks before I could ask for focus or sits near other dogs!! Another of my dogs that is fear reactive I did use other tools under the guidance of a behaviourist. So I do know they are necessary, but do wonder if your dog isnt telling you he is too close/overwhelmed to be working near the other dogs and you need to work outside his threshold zone for a little while to teach him that the presence of other dogs doesnt automatically mean play time? Edited July 31, 2012 by Jumabaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 That is what the trainer has us doing... The better he does the closer we get to the group. When he does the wrong thing we move back out again.. We made it all the way into the group last weekend but it didn't last long... So he is improving, albeit slowly.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 That is what the trainer has us doing... The better he does the closer we get to the group. When he does the wrong thing we move back out again.. We made it all the way into the group last weekend but it didn't last long... So he is improving, albeit slowly.. Sounds great!! Slow is good- makes the end result even more amazing!! The first class where you get reliable attention is such a high!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 - will he chase a ball when other dogs are around? - how far away from other dogs can you get his attention? - will he work in the same park that you train in when no other dogs are there? He lets the other dog get the ball and runs with them... If there is a dog within about 50m his focus is totally in the other dog.. It's like he doesn't even hear my voice.. Yes he works fine when there are no other dogs around. He recalls, he sits, stays, drops, looks at me... He comes and waits for his lead to be attached before we leave and is happy to do so... He loves training... Even at home, we do stuff all the time.. If he comes into the kitchen, I will ask him to look at me, or heel beside me and he will do it with just pats and good dog as reward... Weasels it is the same issue I was having before.. We haven't been to an offlead dog park in a long time... We only go to places where he can be off lead on his own and he is leashed as soon as I see another dog (which is rare as we go when it is unlikely to run into another dog like that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I remember your other posts - and by my count Zig should be well and truly a teenager by now? If so that probably isn't helping! :p I was getting at what Jumabaar was saying, abou building reinforcement history and focus just outside of reactivity range then trying to reduce that range, but it sounds like you are doing great with that already :) If the park itself isn't adding to the excitement then that's a good thing When I'm trying to counter/redirect excitement I like to use a toy instead of food rewards because then they can keep the level of excitement but just move it to me or the toy, rather than having to first calm down enough to focus on the food and eat etc.- so it is like I am only asking one thing (redirect) instead of two (calm down/stop, then redirect) if that makes sense (probably not - late :laugh:). Having said that tho, I still use food on walks because I can't be throwing balls all over the sidewalk, but I know I need a greater distance between me & the exciting thing than I would if I was using a toy. I don't know how well that would apply to other dogs, but it's what works for Weez & me :) He probably can't hear you, as you said, he's too excitied to process other stuff! Distance and threshold are so so important. You sound like you have a great foundation tho, and I'm sure it's just a matter of time :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 He is a young excitable dog. He should grow out it, and you're obviously putting the effort into training him. By all means use a headcollar or front leading harness if it makes walking him less stressful and easier for yourself. You can work on loose lead walking with a flat collar in a less distracting environment. I see them as useful tools for a lot of pet owners who don't have time to put a lot of effort into training, it allows them to get the dog out and about safely. I would much rather see a dog being walked in a halti, than not being walked a t all or being pretty much out of control when it is walked. Personally I find the front leading harnesses are more comfortable and less irritating for the dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 My opinion may not be popular but anyhow... You don't need a halti. Get yourself a check chain (or martingale, or even a prong collar) and learn how to give the dog a decent, well timed correction. At the moment he understands that there is a reward for focussing on you, BUT there is a much higher self reward in lunging at other dogs - and right now there is no consequence for that behaviour. You need to be clearer in what you want. Halti's and no-pull harnesses only mask the behaviour, not deal with the cause. On top of that the problem rarely lies with the dog - it's usually (and un-intentionally) the owner. I had this point rammed home to me on the weekend so you're not the only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverStar-Aura Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Just be careful with a front attach harness. I've heard that larger, stronger dogs are able to get out of them very easily. I started off with one on Kirah but have since moved on to the Black Dog Infin8 halter. I find these better as it connects from the back and there's less of a weaning period with them -- you don't really have to get the dog used to wearing it. It works amazingly on Zeus whereas Kirah is scared of it (she even tenses up when I put a collar or harness on her) but we're getting better. Both Kirah and Zeus are highly reactive to other dogs on walks -- they bark and carry on because they want to go play. What I have to learn as an owner is to take them both out t separate times rather than walking them together and start shovelling treats into them before the other dogs get too close. Once the threshold has been breached and barking occurs, I have to stop treating as I wasn't fast enough in distracting my dog. I'm not very good at loose leash walking; it's just never clicked with me and I'm not sure how to get it to work. My two are fine if I hold treats in front of them but if there's no treats it's pull, pull, pull, all the time. Kirah will be starting a Back to Basics class at the end of August and I'm hoping that what I learn there I can try out with Zeus too. Bst of luck; staffies can be trying when they want to be!! It's the stubborn terrier in them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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