Pets Paradise In Receivership

[Salukifan]

You might wish to be aware Sorks that in some States, it is a breach of the Canine Control's Code of Ethics for an ANKC Registered breeder to sell pups to a pet shop.

I think you can if the petshop is a member of PIAA??? There aren't many that are.

Only in some states. It's a blanket ban on pet shop sales here. :)

I have to say I get a bit frustrated by the justification of pet shop puppy sales with the argument that "some registered breeders are pretty awful". Yes folks they are but two wrongs don't make a right and how anyone can advocate a retail point of sale as a GOOD method of buying pups from the dogs' welfare perspective sure beats me.

I think all pups should be sourced from their breeders. End of story. Frankly if more buyers saw the conditions pups were whelped and raised in, they might be a bit more discerning about where their dogs come from.

If nothing else, why anyone in their right mind would want to pay 3 times the price for a pup that the pet shop buys them for defies logic.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[Clyde]

Seriously guys, stop feeding the troll?

Just because a member has a difference of opinion it doesn't make them a troll!

Yet when someone signs up just to post in one thread about that one opinion, loudly, it does make them a troll.

Lots of people lurk without signing up. When they see a thread of interest they join to contribute.

Sorks has posted in the parvo thread in news ... to take a pop at registered breeders.

She is not breeder bashing. It's a fact, registered breeders do get parvo.

Point proven

Hardly. Sorks has also posted about their dog and pancreatitis. Trolling? I think not.

Sorks is not running around saying all breeders are the scum of the earth. They are simply stating facts. There are bad ones out there (just as there are good ones). God forbid that someone should be allowed to say that they've had a raw deal from a registered breeder *eye rolly man* I know I have! I've had good ones too. If I post about my bad experiences it is not breeder bashing or trolling, just stating fact.

[JulesP]

You might wish to be aware Sorks that in some States, it is a breach of the Canine Control's Code of Ethics for an ANKC Registered breeder to sell pups to a pet shop.

I think you can if the petshop is a member of PIAA??? There aren't many that are.

Only in some states. It's a blanket ban on pet shop sales here. :)

If you are in the ACT that is not the case.

Here is the clause from the ACT code of ethics:

e) Incompliance to section 9 - A Member shall not sell any dog to commercial dog wholesalers or retail pet dealers, who are not accredited by the Pet Industry Association of Australia Limited (PIAA).

[casowner]

Seriously guys, stop feeding the troll?

Just because a member has a difference of opinion it doesn't make them a troll!

Yet when someone signs up just to post in one thread about that one opinion, loudly, it does make them a troll.

Lots of people lurk without signing up. When they see a thread of interest they join to contribute.

Sorks has posted in the parvo thread in news ... to take a pop at registered breeders.

She is not breeder bashing. It's a fact, registered breeders do get parvo.

Point proven

Hardly. Sorks has also posted about their dog and pancreatitis. Trolling? I think not.

Sorks is not running around saying all breeders are the scum of the earth. They are simply stating facts. There are bad ones out there (just as there are good ones). God forbid that someone should be allowed to say that they've had a raw deal from a registered breeder *eye rolly man* I know I have! I've had good ones too. If I post about my bad experiences it is not breeder bashing or trolling, just stating fact.

I agree Clyde

[Sheridan]

It doesn't matter what state bodies codes of ethics say. No ethical breeder would sell to a pet shop no matter whether the shop was a PIAA member or not

And no ethical dog lover would promote such places.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Sheridan

[Salukifan]

You might wish to be aware Sorks that in some States, it is a breach of the Canine Control's Code of Ethics for an ANKC Registered breeder to sell pups to a pet shop.

I think you can if the petshop is a member of PIAA??? There aren't many that are.

Only in some states. It's a blanket ban on pet shop sales here. :)

If you are in the ACT that is not the case.

Here is the clause from the ACT code of ethics:

e) Incompliance to section 9 - A Member shall not sell any dog to commercial dog wholesalers or retail pet dealers, who are not accredited by the Pet Industry Association of Australia Limited (PIAA).

Here is the Code of Ethics on Our website

I don't see any reference to PIAA there and if it IS there somewhere, prepare for a campaign of terror by yours truly to have it removed. :D

[JulesP]

You might wish to be aware Sorks that in some States, it is a breach of the Canine Control's Code of Ethics for an ANKC Registered breeder to sell pups to a pet shop.

I think you can if the petshop is a member of PIAA??? There aren't many that are.

Only in some states. It's a blanket ban on pet shop sales here. :)

If you are in the ACT that is not the case.

Here is the clause from the ACT code of ethics:

e) Incompliance to section 9 - A Member shall not sell any dog to commercial dog wholesalers or retail pet dealers, who are not accredited by the Pet Industry Association of Australia Limited (PIAA).

Here is the Code of Ethics on Our website

I don't see any reference to PIAA there and if it IS there somewhere, prepare for a campaign of terror by yours truly to have it removed. :D

I copied and pasted straight from your code of ethics! What you have linked to is the short version. Go to Rules & Regulations and open the Code of Ethics PDF.

[Salukifan]

I copied and pasted straight from your code of ethics! What you have linked to is the short version. Go to Rules & Regulations and open the Code of Ethics PDF.

Let the campaign of terror commence!!!!

[moosmum]

Seriously guys, stop feeding the troll?

Just because a member has a difference of opinion it doesn't make them a troll!

Yet when someone signs up just to post in one thread about that one opinion, loudly, it does make them a troll.

Lots of people lurk without signing up. When they see a thread of interest they join to contribute.

Sorks has posted in the parvo thread in news ... to take a pop at registered breeders.

She is not breeder bashing. It's a fact, registered breeders do get parvo.

Point proven

Hardly. Sorks has also posted about their dog and pancreatitis. Trolling? I think not.

Sorks is not running around saying all breeders are the scum of the earth. They are simply stating facts. There are bad ones out there (just as there are good ones). God forbid that someone should be allowed to say that they've had a raw deal from a registered breeder *eye rolly man* I know I have! I've had good ones too. If I post about my bad experiences it is not breeder bashing or trolling, just stating fact.

I agree Clyde

Me too.

There are plenty of justifiable complaints against registered breeders too.Taken as whole,more people get bitten than is admitted,yet only a few radicals who aren't taken seriously by any one call for a total ban on pedigree breeders.

Dolers prefer to dwell on negative feed back they get and forget the support they also receive far out weighs the negative.

Its too easy here to push the pedigree ideal at the expense of others,not on its own merrits.

Pedigree is best for a whole lot of reasons,but only if the problems are addressed,and that doesn't seem to be happening.

While there is whole lot going on in the dog world I can't stomach,its not issolated to any one group,and no group is perfect,but on Dol the idea is pushed that excellence ,ethics and standards can't exsist out side of pedigree circles.Anyone elses efforts to do better are not permitted to see light of day,no matter what could be learned from it.

Better practices should be encouraged and recognised when they occur,not denied?!

[Salukifan]

Better practices should be encouraged and recognised when they occur,not denied?!

Who's denying anything???????

[moosmum]

Better practices should be encouraged and recognised when they occur,not denied?!

Who's denying anything???????

Sorks has been called a troll simply for having a diferent view.looks like denial of alternatives to me.

[Salukifan]

Better practices should be encouraged and recognised when they occur,not denied?!

Who's denying anything???????

Sorks has been called a troll simply for having a diferent view.looks like denial of alternatives to me.

Please don't tar all of us with the same brush. I'm all for robust debate on such issues but pet shops as a decent alternative to breeders selling?

Does anyone here honestly think that the sale of pups in pet shops is a GOOD thing? If so, please outline your argument with canine welfare at the forefront of the positives.

Seriously, how would pet shop staff even know the personalities of the pups they sell? They don't observe them over the course of 8 weeks and they are contained in a manner that limits natural behaviours.

And if the mother of the pups is the best lead on how they will turn out, how does buying a pup having never seen either parent or the conditions in which it was raised assist a buyer to make a good choice?

Edited August 3, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[Sheridan]

Better practices should be encouraged and recognised when they occur,not denied?!

Who's denying anything???????

That was probably me. I think I used the term 'fiction'.

[moosmum]

Better practices should be encouraged and recognised when they occur,not denied?!

Who's denying anything???????

Sorks has been called a troll simply for having a diferent view.looks like denial of alternatives to me.

Please don't tar all of us with the same brush. I'm all for robust debate on such issues but pet shops as a decent alternative to breeders selling?

Does anyone here honestly think that the sale of pups in pet shops is a GOOD thing? If so, please outline your argument with canine welfare at the forefront of the positives.

Seriously, how would pet shop staff even know the personalities of the pups they sell? They don't observe them over the course of 8 weeks and they are contained in a manner that limits natural behaviours.

And if the mother of the pups is the best lead on how they will turn out, how does buying a pup having never seen either parent or the conditions in which it was raised assist a buyer to make a good choice?

I'm not taring all with the same brush,but trying to point out that all alternatives to pedigree breeders are tarred with the same brush.,no matter what what efforts they might make to be other wise.If we tell people how evil pet shops are,and they should be buying from ethical,registered breeders and they get bitten how do we come out ahead by that?

It would surely be better if efforts made to bann every thing were channelled into informing people what a well raised pup should be receiving and why.They would be better equipt to make good choices.

[Salukifan]

I'm not taring all with the same brush,but trying to point out that all alternatives to pedigree breeders are tarred with the same brush.,no matter what what efforts they might make to be other wise.If we tell people how evil pet shops are,and they should be buying from ethical,registered breeders and they get bitten how do we come out ahead by that?

It would surely be better if efforts made to bann every thing were channelled into informing people what a well raised pup should be receiving and why.They would be better equipt to make good choices.

I think there are two important points here:

* Not all registered breeders are ethical. Sad, but its true.

* IF you buy from an ethical registered breeder, the odds of you being bitten are pretty low.

You can educate till the cows come home but that's only if people are willing to listen. I see no positive side to a situation in society where pups can be bought on a whim or with the click of the "add to cart" button on the internet.

If ethical registered breeders are not a very large part of the answer to the issues of unwanted dogs in society then please tell me what those answers are and why.

And please show me examples of the types of sellers "tarred" by this forum lifting their game.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[Sheridan]

I'm not taring all with the same brush,but trying to point out that all alternatives to pedigree breeders are tarred with the same brush.,no matter what what efforts they might make to be other wise.If we tell people how evil pet shops are,and they should be buying from ethical,registered breeders and they get bitten how do we come out ahead by that?

It would surely be better if efforts made to bann every thing were channelled into informing people what a well raised pup should be receiving and why.They would be better equipt to make good choices.

I think there are two important points here:

* Not all registered breeders are ethical. Sad, but its true.

* IF you buy from an ethical registered breeder, the odds of you being bitten are pretty low.

You can educate till the cows come home but that's only if people are willing to listen. I see no positive side to a situation in society where pups can be bought on a whim or with the click of the "add to cart" button on the internet.

If ethical registered breeders are not a very large part of the answer to the issues of unwanted dogs in society then please tell me what those answers are and why.

And there it is really. Those in this thread pushing buying puppies from pet shops cannot come up with any reason why it is a better thing to do other than that they seem to be forced to buy from a pet shop because an ethical registered breeder might ask them a few questions or make them wait.

[Salukifan]

I'm not taring all with the same brush,but trying to point out that all alternatives to pedigree breeders are tarred with the same brush.,no matter what what efforts they might make to be other wise.If we tell people how evil pet shops are,and they should be buying from ethical,registered breeders and they get bitten how do we come out ahead by that?

It would surely be better if efforts made to bann every thing were channelled into informing people what a well raised pup should be receiving and why.They would be better equipt to make good choices.

I think there are two important points here:

* Not all registered breeders are ethical. Sad, but its true.

* IF you buy from an ethical registered breeder, the odds of you being bitten are pretty low.

You can educate till the cows come home but that's only if people are willing to listen. I see no positive side to a situation in society where pups can be bought on a whim or with the click of the "add to cart" button on the internet.

If ethical registered breeders are not a very large part of the answer to the issues of unwanted dogs in society then please tell me what those answers are and why.

And please show me examples of the types of sellers "tarred" by this forum lifting their game.

One more thing - if you asked me if it were possible that there are ethical non-ANKC registered breeders, breeding companion animals, then my answer would be a resounding "yes".

But they appear, from what I can gather, to be as rare as rocking horse poo.

And how Jo Average is going to find one, I simply do not know.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[Sheridan]

One more thing - if you asked me if it were possible that there are ethical non-ANKC registered breeders, breeding companion animals, then my answer would be a resounding "yes".

But they appear, from what I can gather, to be as rare as rocking horse poo.

And how Jo Average is going to find one, I simply do not know.

Handwritten cardboard sign attached to a light pole saying 'staffie pups 4 sale'?

[JulesP]

Does anyone here honestly think that the sale of pups in pet shops is a GOOD thing? If so, please outline your argument with canine welfare at the forefront of the positives.

No. Don't think the sale of any animal in a pet shop is a good thing.

I was just pointing out the rules :) (which I didn't make and which I don't agree with)

But I would still rather all the PP staff got to keep their jobs and just sold pet food etc.

[Salukifan]

Does anyone here honestly think that the sale of pups in pet shops is a GOOD thing? If so, please outline your argument with canine welfare at the forefront of the positives.

No. Don't think the sale of any animal in a pet shop is a good thing.

I was just pointing out the rules :) (which I didn't make and which I don't agree with)

But I would still rather all the PP staff got to keep their jobs and just sold pet food etc.

Maybe if they stocked decent quality products in a wider range and had staff who actually knew a damn thing about dogs, they'd still be in business.

Instead they've applied "lowest common denominator quality" and profit maximisation principles to their stores and it shows. Hardly the place you'd head if you wanted an informed product recommendation at a decent price.

And people are voting with their feet, mostly in favour of internet purchasing I reckon.

You can't even buy any decent quality brush in their stores. It's all shit.

Edited August 3, 2012 by Haredown Whippets