8 Yrs Old Boy - Nose Bitten Off By Dog

[nawnim]

I'd prefer mine would bark too, but I wouldn't kill them for biting an intruder! Sorry, but you seem to think that a dog should take anything. Where do you draw the line? If I kick your dog, can it bite me?

This is an interesing question and I don't really know the answer. I would like to think that nobody ever has the opportunity to kick my dogs and if they did they would have me to answer to. I do expect my dogs not to bite the vet when they get things stuck up their bottoms and they are jabbed with needles though.

[megan_]

The dog owners did the responsible thing in this situation, a sad situation, but for a dog to do that damage is serious.

I love how people always blame the kids, it's never the dog...it would be lovely to live in a black and white world, however we don't, there are always "Shades of Grey"

No one is blaming the kid that I see? People are saying we don't know what happened. It isn't about blame, but about finding out how to prevent things happening in the future....and the answer isn't to kill all dogs who have a guarding instinct.

[wuffles]

I think we'd all be kidding ourselves if we thought our own dogs would never be capable of biting. IMO every dog is.

Very sad situation for all involved

[Dame Aussie]

No one has blamed the kid, just commented on the fact that he shouldn't have been sticking his head over the fence.

[Pockets]

A lot of people are assuming the child is teasing the dog, barking at the dog, trying to come up with an excuse for the dogs Behaviour....if the owners did not believe their dog was at fault, do you think they would have easily put the dog to sleep?

IMO there is no grey area here, the child got up on the fence, the dog bit the child with some force causing serious injury. At least the owners this time are responsible.

Whether your dog is in your secure yard or lose on the street, the dog shouldn't bite someone (in the eyes of the law) maybe if it was an intruder this would be the grey area...

[Dame Aussie]

A lot of people are assuming the child is teasing the dog, barking at the dog, trying to come up with an excuse for the dogs Behaviour....if the owners did not believe their dog was at fault, do you think they would have easily put the dog to sleep?

IMO there is no grey area here, the child got up on the fence, the dog bit the child with some force causing serious injury. At least the owners this time are responsible.

Whether your dog is in your secure yard or lose on the street, the dog shouldn't bite someone (in the eyes of the law) maybe if it was an intruder this would be the grey area...

How is the dog supposed to determine whether or not it was an intruder?? Someone was putting themselves over the fence, dogs can't reason that it's only a child. What an unreasonable expectation to place upon them.

[Pockets]

Aussie, I didnt say either was acceptable, I was merely stating that in the eyes of the law you may find that the behavior would go unpunished due to the circumstances....I didn't say the dog should know the difference, please do not twist my posts to suggest otherwise..

I tried to edit my first post so remove the term "everyone"

[Dame Aussie]

Fair enough sorry if I misread.

I will say though that if someone was breaking into my house and got bitten, good riddance to them. That's what happens when you trespass.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Aussie3

[Pockets]

Oh I agree whole heartedly if someone was to trespass into my property to commit a crime and got bit, then good on the dogs :)

Unfortunately in this case it has a sad ending, death of a dog and a seriously injured child

However both parties have realized fault in some way, the owners having their dog put to sleep and the parents of the child not perusing charges, obviously realizing that some fault of the incident lies with their child, which inadvertently lies with them as the parents ...

[Crisovar]

I think it is criminal that dogs are simply destroyed for incidents like this without any investigation. To me it was not a dog attack, a kid sticking his head over a fence ...an excited dog jumping up and down who knows

The parents of the child wanted no action taken....maybe there is something in that??

The owners put the dog down.. maybe they also have unrealistic views on dog behaviour.

I am also not of the opinion that dogs should simply take what is dished out without retaliation, children can be terribly cruel often unintentionally and cause injury or pain, yet some feel it wrong for a dog to voice that???

I groomed a little dog recently that had several very tight small coloured hair elastics tightly on its limbs, hidden under the long curly coat cutting into the flesh. The dog had been avoiding the small child in the family and had growled when the child tried to climb onto the lounge next to it on a couple of occasions, the parents were very upset when I phoned them to tell them what I had found. That little dog very nearly was PTS earlier that week.

[Snoopy21]

Or maybe the owners could not live with the risk that their dog might maim someone else? I could never look at my dog the same way again if I knew she had bitten a child's face this way. It would not be fair for her to live in a situation where she was always looked at by her own family as a child mutilator rather than the reliable dog that we know and love. My intellectual mind knows that any dog, including mine, is capable of biting a child. I do many things to minimize the risk of this occurring. But my emotional self would find it hard to know what to do if that bite did happen. I would be guilty, upset and angry at my dog. Is it fair for her to have to live with that?

[raineth]

gees poor kid

[mita]

The basics of this case fits with the stats re who are most vulnerable to dog bites and how. Children up to age 8 yrs, especially boys...and high incidence of facial injuries.

There are reasons underlying all that....right thro' to the high likelihood of serious facial injuries...children tend to put their face close to dogs, first because they're closer to the level of a dog and also their skin and facial tissues are not as 'tough' as an adult's. Seems in this case the boy put his head over the fence when there was a property guarding dog that had the jaw strength to cause really severe facial injury. And that fits with the more 'risky' behaviours that tends to be found in boys. Another statistical tick.

No.....none of this is a matter of blame. It's an explanation of what lies behind the statistics, of which this case is a text-book example.

General response should be, once again, to be aware of the particular dynamics between children and dogs. Caution with the most vulnerable age-group & dogs, and also teaching, especially the boys, to avoid risk-taking behaviours around dogs.

BTW Also statistically, the other most vulnerable group is the elderly.

Edited July 27, 2012 by mita

[yarracully]

Oh I agree whole heartedly if someone was to trespass into my property to commit a crime and got bit, then good on the dogs :)

Unfortunately in this case it has a sad ending, death of a dog and a seriously injured child

However both parties have realized fault in some way, the owners having their dog put to sleep and the parents of the child not perusing charges, obviously realizing that some fault of the incident lies with their child, which inadvertently lies with them as the parents ...

I am curious how the owners of the dog are at fault. The child put his head over the fence. in the mind of the dog this is an intruder. Simple as that.

The owners of the dog did not provoke or cause the attack. They weren't home at the time. The dog was in its own yard. Perhaps if the dog was loose on the street I would accept they have some amount of fault. But from What I have read on this I don't accept they have any fault.

The owners of the dog have had the dog PTS perhaps to prevent another issue later on but I fail to see how they bear any fault.

We often have kids going down our back lane going to and from school and for the most part they are OK but there are always those that get some thrill from stirring up the dogs long the street. Are you suggesting that if they provoke my dog and it thinks they are an intruder when they put their head over the fence that this is my fault.

It never ceases to amze me how people will not accept responsibilty for their actions but instead blame anyone else for their own decisions.

You may think I am a bit harsh, frankly I don't care but I think the fault for this should be put to those at fault not the innocent people that have no part in the circumstance that lead to this matter. In this case the dog owners.

[nawnim]

We don't know why the dog bit the boy and whether he was teasing it or not. We don't know why the parents do not wish to pursue the matter. Perhaps they just want privacy both for themselves and the child. It's hard to imagine how anyone could cope with the horror of their child losing his nose, let alone how the child will cope without a nose. We also don't know why the owners of the dog chose to have it pts. Maybe the dog had attacked before. We just don't know. It's a terrible situation. That poor kid.

[yarracully]

We don't know why the dog bit the boy and whether he was teasing it or not. We don't know why the parents do not wish to pursue the matter. Perhaps they just want privacy both for themselves and the child. It's hard to imagine how anyone could cope with the horror of their child losing his nose, let alone how the child will cope without a nose. We also don't know why the owners of the dog chose to have it pts. Maybe the dog had attacked before. We just don't know. It's a terrible situation. That poor kid.

You are quite right. We don't know.And yes it is a terrible situation. Therefore it is hard to proportion blame for this. WHich is why I said "from what I have read on this I don't accept they have any fault".

However if more facts behind this came out I would reassess if the owners of the dog have any fault. I know if it were my dog that attacked I would consider it being PTS. Basically as a matter of being able to trust it in the future. But that is different to being at fault in any way.

The reality is that we probably will never know the facts that lead to this. Perhaps this is something that has been brewing over a period of time. The only people that would know are the owners of the dog, the child, and the parents of the child. No doubt there will be several versions of the incident, and the truth will lay somewhere in amongst the variations. But I think its a bit harsh to say that someone who wasn't even there has some form of fault though under the particular circumstances mentioned.

[nawnim]

I think that the only useful thing that can come out of this shocking incident is that parents, and the government need to recognise that the best way to prevent dog attacks on children is education. Living with dogs should be part of the pre-school and primary school curriculum.

This is a useful link

http://dogscouts.org/Bite_Prev_-Ways_to_keep.html

[espinay2]

Lot of 'blame game' happening here on the forum, when not even the parties involved, from reports, seem to be doing that.

The parents of the child don't want action taken and the owners of the dog have put the dog to sleep.

Neither appears to be blaming the other, but everyone involved in this situation, from reports, seems to be acting in an appropriate and responsible attitude to this sad situation.

And ALL appear to be taking their share of the responsibility, which to me is something that should be commended, not condemned or bickered over.

Edited July 27, 2012 by espinay2

[Parkeyre]

Lot of 'blame game' happening here on the forum, when not even the parties involved, from reports, seem to be doing that.

The parents of the child don't want action taken and the owners of the dog have put the dog to sleep.

Neither appears to be blaming the other, but everyone involved in this situation, from reports, seems to be acting in an appropriate and responsible attitude to this sad situation.

And ALL appear to be taking their share of the responsibility, which to me is something that should be commended, not condemned or bickered over.

This.

[mita]

Lot of 'blame game' happening here on the forum, when not even the parties involved, from reports, seem to be doing that.

T

I said in my post that a view on the situation can be made that has nothing to do with blame. But everything to do with awareness of how this case ticks every box for the statistical profile on who is most vulnerable to dog bites and how. Explanation of the dynamics in a situation is not blame.

Amazing that this information has been available for some time, but it doesn't seem to have filtered into the public discourse. Yet it's the key to prevention, as far as humanly possible, via education and management. In reporting cases like this one, reference should be made to key criteria about children and dogs....not from a viewpoint of blaming, but of informing about vulnerabilities and management of them.