At My Wits End - Ear Infections

[~tj~]

Hi all

My poor dog, a rescue lab x poodle (Labradoodle) is suffering terribly at the moment. He suffering from both ears being infected. Hes shaking his head from side to side, and it smells terrible, with dark brown pus. I have made several trips to the vet and done everything I can think of and Im just so sick of seeing my boy in pain.

He has had 4 doses of antibiotics (General), (2 oral, 2 in the ears), 4 doses of predisilone, and a special ear cleaner which i have been doing daily. I have also taken him to the groomers to have the hairs pulled out to try and reduce the amount of hair in there.

Ive been away for a few days, and my mum was watching the dogs, and I have come home, checked him and one ear is red inside, and I think its bleeding from him scratching it (At least I hope thats why!)

Im not a fan of a lot of medicine and I was wondering if you have any natural remedies or any on the shelf medications I can use, to compliment the antibitoics? I cant get into my vet until tomorrow, so today, I am just going to thoroughly clean them and keep him calm and warm.

Doing some googling someone mentioned "ear clear" "swimmers drops" and "thornit Ear Powder"

I dont want to do anything that would harm him further, so does anyone have any experience with any of these?

Thankyou so much for any advice you can give me - I just want him to be pain free and it SUCKS

[fuzzy82]

Has the vet actually checked what's in his ears? I have a poodle x who had regular ear infections too, treated with antibiotics and just cleaning them out regularly. Then we saw a different vet who actually took a sample and looked at it under the microscope, and it turned out to be yeast, not bacterial. So no wonder the antibiotics didn't work. We got some anti-fungal drops to put in twice a day, and it cleared up pretty quickly.

[persephone]

What sort of infection is it exactly?

Did the vet name the particular bacteria, or was it started by a fungal infection , or irritation perhaps?

What diet is your dog on ?

Does he have any itchy times..or chew his feet at all?

I would NOT suggest using any over the counter stuff for a recurring /nasty infection .

What I would suggest is finding out exactly why it is happening ..and then adjust things to minimise it.

If the current vet is not giving you any other help/information other than antibiotics ...perhaps try another vet?

yes, too much un necessary medication for anything is not a good thing, however, if the correct medication, plus a management plan, is used ..then things should resolve...

Worst case scenario... and not all that common ..is to have surgery which opens up the ear canal to let air in, and make it much less a desirable place for nasties to live.

[Jumabaar]

If its a re occurring problem perhaps talk to your vet about a referral to a veterinary dermatologist.

They might be a little more expensive upfront but you have a much higher chance of a better resolution!! There may be something underlying that is causing these infections- so treatment of that will solve the ear problem. Or you might need different medication to treat what is in the ear.

ETA- an allergy or atopy can cause recurrent ear infections and cleaning won't solve the problem. Going to an expert is the best bet.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Jumabaar

[noisymina]

Ok -I had a rescue Poodle way back - same issue. First thing is to get the vet to put the dog under a GA and do a proper clean out. Anything can be in there.

Then do your AB's - one course plus

Ear routine....

Use BOTH the powder and the drops.

One in the morning, the other at night and massage in down the ear. This may hurt the dog somewhat. Mine used to cry and lean into the massage at the same time. Took a long time to beat it, but we did.

If you use only the powder, it's not good as it sets like concrete in the ears. If you use only drops, it's too humid in there. So using both is the trick!

[Dogsfevr]

There are plenty of home remedies that could be used BUT only once you now what your dealing with.

Treating ears infections means treating the dogs feet as well,often dogs with bad ears also have sore feet because they just transfer it back & forth.

The feet you can use cheap white vinegar & dunk them or a tinea cream.

The ears if that bad do need more testing as to what exactly it is & often the course of tablets vet use just aren't long enough to truly knock it off .

[❤LovesPoodles❤]

Has the vet actually checked what's in his ears? I have a poodle x who had regular ear infections too, treated with antibiotics and just cleaning them out regularly. Then we saw a different vet who actually took a sample and looked at it under the microscope, and it turned out to be yeast, not bacterial. So no wonder the antibiotics didn't work. We got some anti-fungal drops to put in twice a day, and it cleared up pretty quickly.

We had the same problem with our poodle and it ended up being yeast. Every now and then Coco will have a flare up of yeasty ears and I bath her with Malaseb and make sure I get right in her paws and leave it on for at least 10 mins.

[jrm88]

Yep please make sure the vet is doing proper diagnostics, not just taking a guess.

If they have looked at it under a microscope, it may be time to send a sample to a lab to determine exactly what bugs are in the ear and what medications they are sensitive to.

[puglvr]

A friend had the same problem with her pug. They put her under to thoroughly clean the ear and found she had a perforated ear drum. Threated from that angle and everything is getting better.

[Salukifan]

Ears are not something to muck about with. A perforated ear drum is a likely consequence.

Concur with those who are recommending a GA and a really thorough flush and work up. You need to know what is causing the infection. Then follow veterinary advice. The last thing infected ears need is a bunch of "natural remedies" swishing around in there until they are sorted.

Has he got hairy ear canals (common in poodles). If so, pluck all exceess hair and keep doing that regularly.

Is that your boy in your avatar? If so, take all that hair on his ears off. 15# or 30# blade all hair off the ear (both sides) AND make sure the hair where the ear falls (side of the muzzle) is also short. There's a reason poodles muzzles are clipped beyond the "look". It improves air circulation for the ear amongst other things. Personally I'd do a poodle clip of the whole muzzle and the throat with at least a 10# blade(15# would be better) to reduce the risk of yeast from around the mouth transferring to the ear and vice versa. All that long fur on the muzzle is a yeast breeding ground (not to mention a real issue for gum infections).

Last thing - remove all gluten (wheat, corn) from the dog's diet. The worst ears I've seen on poodles are those with hairy ear canals and fuzzy faces, often accompanied by cheaper brand kibbles - full of cereals.

If the culprit is yeast (and if often is) then the steps I've recommended above should help. The issues may be being exacerbated by the construction/shape of the ear canal but you need to get as much air into the ear as possible.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Haredown Whippets

[tlc]

All good advice above, nothing to add really.

I'm surprised with such an on going issue the vet hasn't done a GA and checked and cleaned both ears thoroughly, When my oldest boy now 6 was a youngster he had 2 perforated ear drums, and I didn't even know, a few head shakes and I thought he may have had a grass seed so off to the vets we went, they had to put him under as there was no way they were getting near his ears (he was very touchy, obviously in pain) and that is what they found, with perforated drums they can't have a topical application and must have AB tablets till the drum has time to heal. The vet had no idea what could have caused it especially in both ears.

With your boy being a rescue who knows what could have happened before hand, he could have grass seeds or anything causing the infection. Diet is a likely candidate for infection as others have already said.

Hopefully you can get to the bottom of it and find out the cause. Good luck.

[Guest lavendergirl]

Your poor boy - he must be in a lot of pain. I agree with what has been suggested - I would be demanding the vet do a more thorough investigation or finding another vet. Also ask for a painkiller for him until the infection is under control - no need for him to suffer when he could have something to relieve it.

Hope things improve for him soon.

[westiemum]

Yep been here done that.

Long story short - mucked around literally guessing what was causing the infection for over a year. New vet at practice insisted on a swab to the lab - severe pseumonas (sp?) infection so no wonder nothing was working ( highly resistant bacteria). Imported specific ABs from Sydney based on lab results. Thought we'd finally got on top of it. Clinically appeared clear. I insisted on a swab to check (I'd learned my lesson by then) - vet felt further swab was unnecessary but humoured me. Results came back with further heavy infection which wasnt obvious clinically and no other drug available to try - he was by now resistant to the lot. End of the road.

Mac then had a complete left ear ablation - 4 hour op. Surgeon rang me after the surgery and said we made the right decision - there was so much infection we were never going to solve it clinically - the ear cavity was absolutely full of pus and was absolutely putrid and more than likely very painful. For Mac surgery and 4k was the only solution.

Moral of the story : always always swab to get accurate diagnosis so you can treat accurately the first time. Don't muck around trying this and that like I did. It's cheaper and more effective in the long run to swab - and less painful for the dog (ear infections are usually very painful). My only regret is I didn't swab right at the beginning and save my old boy a great deal of pain - and possibly the loss of his left ear canal, ear drum, middle ear cavity and inner ear.

Good luck - hope you get to the bottom of it soon. :)

Edited July 23, 2012 by westiemum

[Zug Zug]

Only some very basic (and no doubt obvious) things to add:

1. Don't let water get in his ears

2. Don't let him stay wet after a bath (put cotton wool in there beforehand, remove after the bath and gently use hair dryer but not blowing it straight in, just across and around until you're sure he is dry)

3. Don't let him go swimming (at least until this has cleared up completely)

4. When it starts to get better, don't go back to the old ways. Make these new practices part of his normal routine

Good luck. Have had a few minor issues with my boy lately and we have also changed our routine after big clean out at the vet under GA when he was desexed.

[Miranda]

Yep been here done that.

Me too, dog had a pseudomonas infection and no treatment was effective so eventually surgery was the only option. In retrospect I should have done it sooner.

[raffikki]

I had a similar ear problem recently with Rhino, though his was fungal.

After getting a swab tested for resistance it turned out there was only 2, of 5 or 6 different treatments, that it wasn't resistant to.

I highly recommend getting a referral to go see a Derm at Murdoch University's Skin, Allergy and Ear Clinic

No, it isn't cheap, but definitely worth every penny to get great results!!

[Jumabaar]

I had a similar ear problem recently with Rhino, though his was fungal.

After getting a swab tested for resistance it turned out there was only 2, of 5 or 6 different treatments, that it wasn't resistant to.

I highly recommend getting a referral to go see a Derm at Murdoch University's Skin, Allergy and Ear Clinic

No, it isn't cheap, but definitely worth every penny to get great results!!

[frufru]

As others have said - you need a vet who investigates more or a specialist. Once your dog is no longer scratching ( if you have not already done so ) shave the ears clean inside and out with a 10 or 15 blade and get rid of the "teddy bear" face - try a moustache if you like hairy - but hair needs to be gone from around the ears to assist air flow.

[gsdog2]

Yep been here done that.

Me too, dog had a pseudomonas infection and no treatment was effective so eventually surgery was the only option. In retrospect I should have done it sooner.

Surgery has been mentioned for my girl too - although at this stage I don't think it's necessary. I am interested to know the process and how long recovery was? Can we have a few more details just in case I need to go down that track in the future with Indi?

[westiemum]

Yep been here done that.

Me too, dog had a pseudomonas infection and no treatment was effective so eventually surgery was the only option. In retrospect I should have done it sooner.

Surgery has been mentioned for my girl too - although at this stage I don't think it's necessary. I am interested to know the process and how long recovery was? Can we have a few more details just in case I need to go down that track in the future with Indi?

gsdog why do you say its not necessary? And whats the bug? (Just so I understand). If you don't know, then I strongly suggest you have a swab done to see what you are dealing with and go from there.

I got to the surgery point far too late in hindsight. But as I explained in my previous post, if I'd swabbed much earlier (ie a year earlier ) the whole issue of surgery may have been avoided - and then again given it was psudomonas it may have been inevitable. Will never really know now. I had lab results which showed there were no further drugs that the bug in Mac's ear was sensitive to. So surgery was the only option. I discussed this with my vet who I trust implicitly and thats what she recommended.

Mac then had two GAs and a 4 hour op to remove the complete hearing mechanism on the left side and clean out the middle ear cavity with a visiting specialist surgeon at my vets. He then stitched up and closed the ear canal orifice (the 'ear hole') permanently. You need to look after this area after the surgery as it can get a bit dry or yeasty. (I used Vitamin E cream from memory - only temporarily). He still has the pinna (the outside ear). Its a difficult complicated and major op - for Mac it was 4 hours and 2 GAs - so major surgery. Its also expensive (4k+) but in my case worth every cent and I'd do it all again in a heart beat. He came home after two (?) nights at the vets with a fentanyl patch (?) and some very heavy duty pain relief (Tramadol?), ABs and maybe even some anti-inflammatories (can't quite remember). The whole left side of his head was shaved and he had a massive wound, drain and stitches which is quite confronting to begin with. I've attached a photo so you can see what it looks like. But beware, if you click to enlarge the photo the wound, although very clean, is really extensive - but at least it will give you an idea of what you are potentially in for.

He healed really really well. My surgeon and vet both did a fantastic job. I think from memory he had the drain out after a couple of days and the stitches out about a week later. But the most remarkable thing was he was a different dog - after he healed from the surgery I suspect he was pain free for the first time in years, probably even from the time he was in the puppy farm (where I suspect this infection came from) - and he was so much happier, bright eyed, spritely. But of course he is completely deaf in the left. And sadly for him I doubt he had much hearing in the right either - so I now manage him as a deaf dog. But of course this isn't usually the case in most other dogs.

My strong recommendation to you is don't dilly dally like I did in getting it sorted one way or another - and be absolutely sure you know what you are dealing with. (See my previous post, this thread).

Hope that helps. :)

Edited July 24, 2012 by westiemum