Pit Bull Blitz A Losing Battle For Councils

[Dame Aussie]

They're all killers though, didn't ya know?

[Puppoochi]

Might I just add these dogs are not "tough" a pitbull or pitbull mix is not a "tough" dog what a silly remark, its like saying small breeds are yappy and bloody annoying, or all small breeds have little dog syndrome thus must be put down because you never know when a Chihuahua is going to run out of its yard and puncture your ankle! TOTAL GENERALISATION AND LOAD OF CROCH S*#T.

Whatever you reckon. This is the kind of reply I would be expecting from one eyed anti BSL supporter. Nothing constructive to ad, just there,ready to denigrate anyone they can, even if they have to twist what people say.

[TheCheekyMonster]

They're all killers though, didn't ya know?

silly me! thats right lets just cull everything on 4 legs and the world will be a much much better place

Might I just add these dogs are not "tough" a pitbull or pitbull mix is not a "tough" dog what a silly remark, its like saying small breeds are yappy and bloody annoying, or all small breeds have little dog syndrome thus must be put down because you never know when a Chihuahua is going to run out of its yard and puncture your ankle! TOTAL GENERALISATION AND LOAD OF CROCH S*#T.

Whatever you reckon. This is the kind of reply I would be expecting from one eyed anti BSL supporter. Nothing constructive to ad, just there,ready to denigrate anyone they can, even if they have to twist what people say.

BSL IS NOT CONSTRUCTIVE there is nothing constructive about it, it solves nothing, helps no one, does not educate but you know what it does do, create depression, anger and a whole world of debate.

Pitbulls are service dogs, they are family dogs, they are people’s lives dogs who look like pitbulls are peoples heart and soul, they are a dog, same species as every other breed yet people like you think they deserve to be killed for no logical explanation or reason... I'm yet to find a logical explanation as to why BSL should even be spoken about why its on the table as a solution.

I'm not one eyed at all I actually have 2 eyes thank you very much, two eyes that see things for what they are BSL is a cop out.

[Sheridan]

Might I just add these dogs are not "tough" a pitbull or pitbull mix is not a "tough" dog what a silly remark, its like saying small breeds are yappy and bloody annoying, or all small breeds have little dog syndrome thus must be put down because you never know when a Chihuahua is going to run out of its yard and puncture your ankle! TOTAL GENERALISATION AND LOAD OF CROCH S*#T.

Whatever you reckon. This is the kind of reply I would be expecting from one eyed anti BSL supporter. Nothing constructive to ad, just there,ready to denigrate anyone they can, even if they have to twist what people say.

To my mind, you are missing the point of anti-BSL, which is that a what a dog does isn't tied to its breed and that any dog can go bad in the hands of a useless owner, even indeed, chihauhuas.

So, I have to ask, what is it that you want?

Are you like m-sass, wanting all crossbreeds dead?

Are you pro-BSL to the extent that anything that looks like a pitbull, no matter what its actual background, is sent off to the slaughterhouse?

I am missing something and I hope you can explain what you mean.

[Dame Aussie]

Might I just add these dogs are not "tough" a pitbull or pitbull mix is not a "tough" dog what a silly remark, its like saying small breeds are yappy and bloody annoying, or all small breeds have little dog syndrome thus must be put down because you never know when a Chihuahua is going to run out of its yard and puncture your ankle! TOTAL GENERALISATION AND LOAD OF CROCH S*#T.

Whatever you reckon. This is the kind of reply I would be expecting from one eyed anti BSL supporter. Nothing constructive to ad, just there,ready to denigrate anyone they can, even if they have to twist what people say.

I told you what my alternative was but you don't seem to have paid that any attention.

I think rather than kill random dogs because of the way they look, we should further educate owners about how to keep their dog safely contained and how to socialise it with people and other dogs.

That's constructive, is it not?

[TheCheekyMonster]

Might I just add these dogs are not "tough" a pitbull or pitbull mix is not a "tough" dog what a silly remark, its like saying small breeds are yappy and bloody annoying, or all small breeds have little dog syndrome thus must be put down because you never know when a Chihuahua is going to run out of its yard and puncture your ankle! TOTAL GENERALISATION AND LOAD OF CROCH S*#T.

Whatever you reckon. This is the kind of reply I would be expecting from one eyed anti BSL supporter. Nothing constructive to ad, just there,ready to denigrate anyone they can, even if they have to twist what people say.

I told you what my alternative was but you don't seem to have paid that any attention.

I think rather than kill random dogs because of the way they look, we should further educate owners about how to keep their dog safely contained and how to socialise it with people and other dogs.

That's constructive, is it not?

The thing is its cheaper for governements to kill dogs than set up a proper solution of a responsible ownership and breeding campaign if they put half as much effort into that than BSL we might be going somewhere lol.

[Puppoochi]

Might I just add these dogs are not "tough" a pitbull or pitbull mix is not a "tough" dog what a silly remark, its like saying small breeds are yappy and bloody annoying, or all small breeds have little dog syndrome thus must be put down because you never know when a Chihuahua is going to run out of its yard and puncture your ankle! TOTAL GENERALISATION AND LOAD OF CROCH S*#T.

Whatever you reckon. This is the kind of reply I would be expecting from one eyed anti BSL supporter. Nothing constructive to ad, just there,ready to denigrate anyone they can, even if they have to twist what people say.

To my mind, you are missing the point of anti-BSL, which is that a what a dog does isn't tied to its breed and that any dog can go bad in the hands of a useless owner, even indeed, chihauhuas.

So, I have to ask, what is it that you want?

Are you like m-sass, wanting all crossbreeds dead?

Are you pro-BSL to the extent that anything that looks like a pitbull, no matter what its actual background, is sent off to the slaughterhouse?

I am missing something and I hope you can explain what you mean.

I don't think that I read anywhere that m-sass is wanting to see all crossbreeds dead? Can you please show me where that is written? I wouldn't want to think that you are twisting what others are saying here.

[m-sass]

AN Australian bulldog that bit the face of a nine-year-old boy as he peered over a fence at Port Lincoln has been put down.

Problem is it's always the same crap involved 9 times out of 10, whatever an Australian Bulldog is, but another "good" dog that can't determine what's a threat and what isn't like little Ayen's killer, what was last weeks, oh another Mastiff X thing that breaks it's collar, kills a little dog, injures another and bites a lady........seriously what do these mongrels think they are protecting for the necessity to kill and people can't understand why laws are tightening up on these "type" of dogs

Dogs with serious foggy headed aggression are hard to handle and difficult to train for novice or irresponsible owners and although I agree in principal that the deed should over ride the breed, but some innocent person or other animal will be the recipient of the deed for action to follow and preventing the deed caused by these half arsed breedings is what scooping up this type of dog is about to save the innocent recipients of the deed from suffering.

So we don't agree with the random BYB's breeding crap dogs, but we are supposed to fight to save their products??, we either support BYB's or we don't and sorry I don't, I hate them passionately and always have done whether they are farming pet shop oodles or producing junk yard guard dogs they are all the same dogs with a different leg action.

So I suppose this http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/story/143478/puppy-killed-by-vicious-dalmatian/ is just a one off attack by a non aggressive breed so it is okay? Because Dali's heads aren't normally foggy with aggression.

We aren't fighting to save BYBers and their over bred dogs. We are fighting to save certain breeds of dogs who are being discriminated against based on appearance. BYB's over breed many breeds of dogs, that isn't going to stop until legislation changes. You may not like bull breeds, but that is no reason for them to be eradicated.

Laws like this are just the beginning It is bull breeds now, what is going to be next? Your head just seems to me to be foggy with hatred, maybe you need to channel your aggression into fighting BSL with the rest of us.

You are not fighting to save certain breeds at all as the dogs people are fighting over are all BYB's of no specific breed as such that have no recognised standard. It's not the beginning of anything as the precident on what will be next was set with the Amstaff's exclusion from BSL although it's essentially a Pitbull of some degree. When a court determines that an Amstaff is a Pitbull and then specifically the Amstaff is excluded from BSL and not added to the list proves the point of where things are heading and confirms that ANKC recognised breeds are safe. If breed restrictions were on the agenda, the Amstaff would have been done and dusted..........and what happened??, the Amstaff being a recognised breed was excluded like any other recognised breed would be in the same instance. If they did for example try and add Dalmations onto the BSL list and ban them suddenly, the Amstaff sets the legal precident to overturn the decision immediately.

Ask the question again what breed could be next?..........any breed or mixture of that is not ANKC recognised, again the choice is in the hands of the consumer if you want a dog that the rangers won't be scooping up, buy papered from a registered breeder or choose a cross breed or un-papered dog that doesn't resemble a restricted breed..........how hard is that seriously??

[Dame Aussie]

m-sass, we know how to avoid having our dogs taken away. That is not the point, at least it's not my point.

I understand what you're saying, and I understand the law, point is I do not agree with it. You seem to dislike crossbreeds, I could be wrong but that's how your posts come across. The ANKC is not the be all and end all of dogs, and there is NO excuse as far as I'm concerned, to kill dogs that haven't done anything wrong.

No excuse.

[m-sass]

The idiots that churn these dogs out are accountable yes.

The idiots that then go and buy their tough guy dog from one of these idiots are equally accountable.

And yes, ignorance is no excuse where the law is concerned.

Why is it so easy to acquire a tough dog?

Anti BSL campaigners are always so quick to gang up and tear people down.

I've been on this forum before suggesting to make it more difficult to own certain types of dogs, but you all didn't want to hear that.

I'd like to know what strategies anti BSL people have come up with so the general community is able to feel safe around potentially dangerous dogs.

I have a friend that owns a pitty and he even says himself that his dog will kill mine given the chance. He's very dog aggressive, and he's not the first dog aggressive one I've met.

It's all well and good to go on about the reasons as to why BSL isn't working, what is your solution?

Excellent post, hopefully some ant-BSL crusaders can provide some answers?

Are you like m-sass, wanting all crossbreeds dead?

Are you pro-BSL to the extent that anything that looks like a pitbull, no matter what its actual background, is sent off to the slaughterhouse?

I am missing something and I hope you can explain what you mean.

No I don't want all crossbreeds dead at all and have never made reference to such either. The point I am making is about choices and to be honest I am sick and tired of people whinging about BSL because they have chosen a Pitbull type of dog.........what do they expect when playing with restricted breeds or dogs that resemble them, it's no different than people whinging that the rotten cop got them for drunk driving and pissy drivers whinge about that too like the anti BSL crusaders do, same thing.

I have absolutely no problem with groups fighting for the Pitbull's release from BSL or for the abolishment of BSL, but in the meantime, the law is the law and if the Pitbull and their look alikes are off the register, don't have dogs like that "until" the laws are successfully ammended "FIRST".

As far as crossbreeds go, I guess I have had the pleasure and hold the highest respect for the amount of work and money that dedicated breeders put into their work to produce good breed examples. I have seen imported dogs that have cost a fortune desexed because the owner/breeder didn't like a trait the dog produced, I have seen the endless amount of work which is a lifestyle to these dedicated breeders, I have seen the money wasted and I have seen the success, the failure and the heartache, but my God, do some dedicated breeders try to produce the best they can an I take my hat off to them in complete admiration of that dedication. What's the BYB do in comparison..........put a male and female together and I should respect their breeding skills and products..........are you joking

Edited July 26, 2012 by m-sass

[Puppoochi]

AN Australian bulldog that bit the face of a nine-year-old boy as he peered over a fence at Port Lincoln has been put down.

Problem is it's always the same crap involved 9 times out of 10, whatever an Australian Bulldog is, but another "good" dog that can't determine what's a threat and what isn't like little Ayen's killer, what was last weeks, oh another Mastiff X thing that breaks it's collar, kills a little dog, injures another and bites a lady........seriously what do these mongrels think they are protecting for the necessity to kill and people can't understand why laws are tightening up on these "type" of dogs

Dogs with serious foggy headed aggression are hard to handle and difficult to train for novice or irresponsible owners and although I agree in principal that the deed should over ride the breed, but some innocent person or other animal will be the recipient of the deed for action to follow and preventing the deed caused by these half arsed breedings is what scooping up this type of dog is about to save the innocent recipients of the deed from suffering.

So we don't agree with the random BYB's breeding crap dogs, but we are supposed to fight to save their products??, we either support BYB's or we don't and sorry I don't, I hate them passionately and always have done whether they are farming pet shop oodles or producing junk yard guard dogs they are all the same dogs with a different leg action.

So I suppose this http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/story/143478/puppy-killed-by-vicious-dalmatian/ is just a one off attack by a non aggressive breed so it is okay? Because Dali's heads aren't normally foggy with aggression.

We aren't fighting to save BYBers and their over bred dogs. We are fighting to save certain breeds of dogs who are being discriminated against based on appearance. BYB's over breed many breeds of dogs, that isn't going to stop until legislation changes. You may not like bull breeds, but that is no reason for them to be eradicated.

Laws like this are just the beginning It is bull breeds now, what is going to be next? Your head just seems to me to be foggy with hatred, maybe you need to channel your aggression into fighting BSL with the rest of us.

You are not fighting to save certain breeds at all as the dogs people are fighting over are all BYB's of no specific breed as such that have no recognised standard. It's not the beginning of anything as the precident on what will be next was set with the Amstaff's exclusion from BSL although it's essentially a Pitbull of some degree. When a court determines that an Amstaff is a Pitbull and then specifically the Amstaff is excluded from BSL and not added to the list proves the point of where things are heading and confirms that ANKC recognised breeds are safe. If breed restrictions were on the agenda, the Amstaff would have been done and dusted..........and what happened??, the Amstaff being a recognised breed was excluded like any other recognised breed would be in the same instance. If they did for example try and add Dalmations onto the BSL list and ban them suddenly, the Amstaff sets the legal precident to overturn the decision immediately.

Ask the question again what breed could be next?..........any breed or mixture of that is not ANKC recognised, again the choice is in the hands of the consumer if you want a dog that the rangers won't be scooping up, buy papered from a registered breeder or choose a cross breed or un-papered dog that doesn't resemble a restricted breed..........how hard is that seriously??

it's not hard at all. The only problem is that a lot of the numb nuts that want to own a "tough guy dog" are rejected as suitable owners by registered ethical breeders of Am Staffs.They have no choice but to go to the BYBs to get their "land shark". BYBs are accountable and should be stopped.

[Robbi]

m-sass, we know how to avoid having our dogs taken away. That is not the point, at least it's not my point.

I understand what you're saying, and I understand the law, point is I do not agree with it. You seem to dislike crossbreeds, I could be wrong but that's how your posts come across. The ANKC is not the be all and end all of dogs, and there is NO excuse as far as I'm concerned, to kill dogs that haven't done anything wrong.

No excuse.

Exactly Aussie3, hatred of crossbreeds seems to be the main point that m-sass has to support bsl. what an awful thing, to condemn a dog simply because it lacks the "right" paperwork seems completely unethical and inhumane.

I know that this is a pedigree dog forum but most people here surely have the compassion not to kill a dog just because it doesn't look like their ideal of a perfect dog.

Looks shouldn't Kill

[korbin13]

The ANKC is opposed to breed specific legislation.

http://www.ankc.org.au/About-ANKC/DANGEROUS-DOGS-CONTROL-LEGISLATION.aspx

The Australian National Kennel Council Limited and its Member Bodies support legislation which seeks to establish objective and clear criteria for determining whether a dog, irrespective of its breed, is dangerous. We also support action for controlling dogs which are proven to be dangerous according to that criteria. We will not support legislation which determines the "dangerousness" of a dog on the basis of breed alone.

The AVA opposes BSL.

http://www.ava.com.au/mediarelease/vets-say-banning-breeds-not-solution

“We know that all dogs have the potential to react aggressively if scared or threatened but most dogs don’t bite people, so the banning of some breeds over others is not effective. We really need to tackle the things that people do that may contribute to canine aggression.

“Experience in other parts of the world has shown that banning breeds doesn’t reduce dog bites.

“We believe that keeping the public safe from dog bites is very important and requires a coordinated approach involving management of the dogs and education of humans. We recommend enforcement of registration and other regulations, early socialisation and training of puppies, owner education and public awareness campaigns and adult supervision of children around all dogs as a much more effective option,” Dr Stott said.

Almost every organisation that has anything to do with dogs has opposed BSL.

Not sure why the Victorian government chose to ignore the experts? Maybe they were vote counting rather than trying to out a sensible solution.

[Dame Aussie]

The idiots that churn these dogs out are accountable yes.

The idiots that then go and buy their tough guy dog from one of these idiots are equally accountable.

And yes, ignorance is no excuse where the law is concerned.

Why is it so easy to acquire a tough dog?

Anti BSL campaigners are always so quick to gang up and tear people down.

I've been on this forum before suggesting to make it more difficult to own certain types of dogs, but you all didn't want to hear that.

I'd like to know what strategies anti BSL people have come up with so the general community is able to feel safe around potentially dangerous dogs.

I have a friend that owns a pitty and he even says himself that his dog will kill mine given the chance. He's very dog aggressive, and he's not the first dog aggressive one I've met.

It's all well and good to go on about the reasons as to why BSL isn't working, what is your solution?

Excellent post, hopefully some ant-BSL crusaders can provide some answers?

I already provided my opinion on a better way to go about it......

[Sheridan]

I suspect that m-sass and puppoochi are the same person.

[Puppoochi]

m-sass, we know how to avoid having our dogs taken away. That is not the point, at least it's not my point.

I understand what you're saying, and I understand the law, point is I do not agree with it. You seem to dislike crossbreeds, I could be wrong but that's how your posts come across. The ANKC is not the be all and end all of dogs, and there is NO excuse as far as I'm concerned, to kill dogs that haven't done anything wrong.

No excuse.

Exactly Aussie3, hatred of crossbreeds seems to be the main point that m-sass has to support bsl. what an awful thing, to condemn a dog simply because it lacks the "right" paperwork seems completely unethical and inhumane.

I know that this is a pedigree dog forum but most people here surely have the compassion not to kill a dog just because it doesn't look like their ideal of a perfect dog.

Looks shouldn't Kill

Funny, I got the impression that m-sass was meaning that if you choose to own a dog that resembles a restricted breed, be prepared for the worst. Please QUOTE m-sass in future, because I do believe you are twisting her/his words and reading into something that hasn't been written.

[Dame Aussie]

I suspect that m-sass and puppoochi are the same person.

Judging by the repeated use of the term "landshark" I wouldn't be surprised.

[TheCheekyMonster]

I suspect that m-sass and puppoochi are the same person.

I was thinking this EXACT thing... or they are 13 year old buddies

[Robbi]

ALTERNATIVES TO BSL

EDUCATION: Just one of the many things to learn from the model bylaw of Calgary, Canada is that education is the key to preventing dog attacks and promoting safer interactions between humans and dogs. Research shows that just 1 hour of dog safety training in grades 2 and 3 can reduce these attacks by 80%, and the city of Calgary spends a considerable amount of money, time and effort on dog safety public awareness and education campaigns.

LEASH LAWS. Enact, strengthen and enforce leash laws. Owners are responsible for containing their animals, and far too many times, existing leash laws are simply ignored. Quite frankly, if a community cannot enforce the simplest of laws such as a leash law (where there is no question as to whether a dog is or is not on a leash), how can they possibly expect to enforce a breed ban, wherein animal control officers will be forced to question what breed a dog may or many not be?

HOLD OWNERS ACCOUNTABLE: Strengthen and enforce penalties for irresponsible dog owners. Rather than create dangerous dog laws, we should instead focus on "dangerous owner" laws. Problem dogs are the result of irresponsible, negligent and careless owners, and greater focus on the cause of the problem will result in a community that experiences less issues with both "dangerous owners" and their dogs.

Generic dangerous dog laws which address the underlying cause of most dog-related deaths and injuries – irresponsible dog ownership - are a key point in preventing dog related incidents in the community. Good dangerous dog laws place the owner in the position of ensuring that their dog(s) comply with all state and local requirements. Fines for violations can vary, but the leading principle is that dog ownership should be more costly to the irresponsible individuals. Experience has taught us that most bite incidents are examples of irresponsible ownership, not the specific dog breed involved. In other words, we need stricter regulations on dog ownership, no matter what the breed.

Non-breed specific legislation is cost effective in comparison to outright breed ban and is more readily accepted for the most part. More importantly, a well-thought non-breed specific legislation addresses the root cause of most, if not all, dog related injures and deaths, which is the irresponsible dog owner.

Strengthen animal abuse and dog fighting laws. Dogs can become aggressive as the result of cruelty, abuse, neglect and/or otherwise improper care, and proper attention needs to be focused on the owners who inflict these living conditions on their dogs.

Regulate Dog Breeders. Breeders play an important role in the temperament of the dogs they produce and sell. Irresponsible breeding plays a very important role as the mating of two dogs with poor and/or unacceptable temperaments will no doubt result in puppies with unstable temperaments. Moreover, if irresponsible breeders do not screen the individuals they sell their dogs to, you have the potential combination of ill-breed dogs in the hands of irresponsible owners. A disaster in the making.

Provide low cost spay/neuter options for communities. Unneutered dogs, particularly males, are far more likely to attack a human than either neutered males or spayed females. In analyzing over 448 dog attack cases, Karen Delise, author of Fatal Dog Attacks, determined that overwhelmingly, most dogs involved in the attacks were unneutered male dogs that were maintained for reasons other than to be household companions (i.e., yard dogs). Providing lost cost options for the healthcare of dogs, including spay and neuter services, is an excellent way to help dog owners better care for dogs and take more interest in their dog's healthcare and well-being.

Interesting Reading:

Breed specific legislation: Considerations for evaluating its effectiveness and recommendations for alternatives

http://canadianveterinarians.net/Documents/Resources/Files/335_2005_August_pg735.pdf

Will breed specific legislation reduce dog bites?

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1576444

[Dame Aussie]

Dogs are being murdered because of how they look. Innocent dogs that haven't done anything wrong.

Is this right?

Yes or no, I don't care who bred them or who owns them. It's a simple question of right or wrong.