Pit Bull Blitz A Losing Battle For Councils

[Cosmolo]

m-sass- when you say dogs of pit bull appearance- what exactly do you mean? I adopted one dog 4 1/2 years ago and another 6 years ago that i did not believe were pit bulls however, according to the Victorian standard- they could be in trouble. This is the problem with going after dogs of certain types and not certain behaviours.

[*kirty*]

I am still seeing pitbull puppies advertised online in Victoria. Advertised as pitbulls, not pretending to be anything else. The people who continue to do this, who flaunt the law and think they can do whatever they want and that they have the right to own a 'tough' dog are the reason that this stupid law will never be overturned.

[TheCheekyMonster]

People need to take resposibility for their own choices and stop blaming other people for the crackdown on restricted breed type dogs IMHO. Whether a dog is a Pitbull or whether it is not is all nonesense really as the point is, Pitbulls have been a restricted breed for 20 odd years and people need to think before they buy, aquire whatever??. Any random Bully type crossbreed could be deemed as a Pitbull so why on earth get a dog like that in the first place and leave yourself and your dog vulnerable to mis identifications, seizures, dangerous dog declarations etc etc, it makes no sense to me.

If you like Bully breeds, get a proper one from a registered breeder, one that can be verified what it is, one that is safe from these laws, if you like to rescue a dog, get a nice Greyhound or something that looks nothing like a Pitbull, no one needs a dog that replicates a restricted breed, there are plenty of options out there to choose from and avoid these situations, people need to think a bit harder about the choices they make?

It's not a case of right or wrong whether it should be ok to own a Pitbull or a crossbreed that looks like one, it's a case of the law determining them to be a restricted breed and the bottom line is get caught with one and you could be facing a drama and heartache, so why go there I ask then whinge when the wheels fall off, they have been trying to get rid of Pitbull's for 20 years, it was only a matter of time before the axe fell??

What right does a government body have to restrict a breed without hard evidence that there is a universal hardwiring of the brain that pitbull and pitbull types are human/dog aggressive? im sorry to inform you but GSD, Rotties and Dobes have all been placed in this category before, its just the cop out of the century really, also who are you or anyone else to tell people what breed they can/should be buying/adopting? that is absolutely disgraceful what's next? where do the restrictions stop? its a bandaid solution for a problem that lays with the human race not the k9 one, and I dont think you are anyone to tell people to stop fighting for what they believe in, and that is the culling of innocent dogs for the way they look! next 10 years it WILL be another breed in which the minority will destroy and the majority will have to pay the consequence.

And FYI Pitbulls and American Staffords were the same breed 70 odd years ago, one was bred for show one a pit....... they are not bred for a pit anymore and in some countires they are recognised as a breed, if they were recogised in australia and if they were to be bred ethically and legally, breeding for temprement would have to me a major factor like with any other breed.

Breeding is not all about how the dog physically meets he standard but it is mentally as well, agression can be bred into ANY breed if done so by dim bats.

Edited July 24, 2012 by TheCheekyMonster

[mymatejack]

I keep reading m-sass talking about gameness, but i really don't believe that m-sass really understands what gameness actually means

[puglvr]

I don't have anything against APBT or their owners infact. I don't agree with the legislation as it stands. But as it stands it is illeagal to breed APBT's in Victoria and has been for awhile. In fact I believe that when they were initially banned they were meant to be desexed.

So where are these dogs and crosses in Vic coming from? Yes, I realise there are places in Aus where they are not banned and you could argue they are coming from there. So are these breeders being responsible allowing their pups to be bought by people in Vic? Do the breeders really have their pups best interest at heart? What are these breeders doing to ensure their pups aren't falling into the wrong hands- of people deciding to breed from their pup (whether it be "pure" or cross). (Desexing pet pups would stop this)

The fact is the law is here. If you are a breeder in another state - would you breed an APBT and sell the pup to a Vic buyer? I would hope not. In all honesty if you lived in Vic would you buy a pup that could be mistaken in the future for an APBT or cross?

I truly feel for the people caught up in this. This situation has come about because people choose to flaunt the law and now others are paying for it.

[Cosmolo]

Pugluvr- it is not just pit bulls or pit bull crosses though. It is ANY dog who meets the criteria set down by the DPI. Meaning that a dog could be a Staffy x Labrador (so neither breeder nor owner would think twice about the legislation- it's just for pit bulls they think) and still meet the criteria.

[puglvr]

Cosmolo, I realise that and all the above should be applicable to these breeders as well. We shouldn't be only concerned with "this current litter of pups" we should be thinking of possible future litters. And this should be foremost in Bully Breed breeders especially.

And yes it should be in the minds of any possible puppy buyer. Ignorance is no excuse.

[Cosmolo]

Given the number of people i see every day who believe that-

- the legislation only applies to dangerous dogs

- the legislation only applies to dogs that ARE pit bulls

Or the people who say "what legislation"?

I think ignorance is an issue- maybe not an excuse- but it is an issue that needs to be addressed. People DON'T realise that any dog that looks a certain way can be deemed restricted. They are not told at point of sale, they are not told when they register their dogs- and the last time i heard anything on TV or radio was ages ago.

Then when there is publicity on TV and radio- there is so much scaremongering that again, people believe it's about 'those nasty pit bulls' or 'dogs taht bite people'.

And what for those people who bought dogs before this legislation came in truly believing their dogs were of XYZ non restricted cross breed?

[mymatejack]

And yes it should be in the minds of any possible puppy buyer. Ignorance is no excuse.

I agree with you about those people who are still knowlingly breeding APBT's in states where it is not allowed. Its silly and only going to lead to problems.

However, I do not agree with you that ignorance in no excuse! The unfortunate fact is that the vast majority of people don't know about half the issues relating to dogs. If the majority of people understood the issues surrounding puppy farms, they would not exist. If you can't get the general population to understand the issues regarding puppy farms, how can you expect the average man in the street to identify a staffy cross compared to a pitbull, or even know what potential issues they may face down the track by buying/rescuing a certain dog? In fact how can you expect even those of us who do take a significant interest in the issues to really determine what is a staffy cross or what is a pitbull?

[BJean]

I am sorry but I just think Victoria is run by a bunch of people who in days past would have been placed in a mental institution.

Edited July 24, 2012 by lilli

[m-sass]

Why can't a responsible ethical breeder breed Pit Bulls? You do know they're still allowed in some areas?

Are all the breeders who have ever bred a Pit Bull morons?

You'll probably say they aren't a recognised breed but neither are Koolies (just one example), are all Koolie breeders morons?

In most areas Pitbull's are supposed to be desexed and in the areas that may allow the breeding of them, they are obviously not scooping them up for seizure so it's not really relevent to the discussion. I don't think Koolies are on the resticted breed lists or require to be registered as dangerous dogs are they, in other words the Koolie's future isn't at threat so why would I think a Koolie breeder would be a moron?

If the control area where a breeder lives requires Pitbull's to be desexed and they breed them contrary to those laws IMHO they are absolute morons, yes!!

m-sass- when you say dogs of pit bull appearance- what exactly do you mean? I adopted one dog 4 1/2 years ago and another 6 years ago that i did not believe were pit bulls however, according to the Victorian standard- they could be in trouble. This is the problem with going after dogs of certain types and not certain behaviours.

It always has been a problem with dogs that resemble a Pitbull in areas that restrict them although they may have not been seized,they have been required to comply with leash and muzzle rules, housing enclosure and desexing if the owners couldn't prove the dog was not Pitbull related. The problem now is that they have taken things to the next level with this type of dog but as someone mentioned elswhere in the thread there is/was only a couple of place that freely allowed the ownership and breeding of Pitbull's.........the few Pitbull's that I know of personally were council registered as a Bully crossbreed to avoid the living and desexing restrictions, but now this loophole is closing. My family live in WA and for many years in Perth it was standard practice to register a Pitbull as a crossbreed, people have been doing this around the country for a long time to sidestep the laws, we all know that??

I am still seeing pitbull puppies advertised online in Victoria. Advertised as pitbulls, not pretending to be anything else. The people who continue to do this, who flaunt the law and think they can do whatever they want and that they have the right to own a 'tough' dog are the reason that this stupid law will never be overturned.

Exactly!!! and these morons need to be knocked off with a heavy penalty for breach of the laws........they need to be policing this and shut the gate where it begins.

Edited July 24, 2012 by m-sass

[m-sass]

People need to take resposibility for their own choices and stop blaming other people for the crackdown on restricted breed type dogs IMHO. Whether a dog is a Pitbull or whether it is not is all nonesense really as the point is, Pitbulls have been a restricted breed for 20 odd years and people need to think before they buy, aquire whatever??. Any random Bully type crossbreed could be deemed as a Pitbull so why on earth get a dog like that in the first place and leave yourself and your dog vulnerable to mis identifications, seizures, dangerous dog declarations etc etc, it makes no sense to me.

If you like Bully breeds, get a proper one from a registered breeder, one that can be verified what it is, one that is safe from these laws, if you like to rescue a dog, get a nice Greyhound or something that looks nothing like a Pitbull, no one needs a dog that replicates a restricted breed, there are plenty of options out there to choose from and avoid these situations, people need to think a bit harder about the choices they make?

It's not a case of right or wrong whether it should be ok to own a Pitbull or a crossbreed that looks like one, it's a case of the law determining them to be a restricted breed and the bottom line is get caught with one and you could be facing a drama and heartache, so why go there I ask then whinge when the wheels fall off, they have been trying to get rid of Pitbull's for 20 years, it was only a matter of time before the axe fell??

What right does a government body have to restrict a breed without hard evidence that there is a universal hardwiring of the brain that pitbull and pitbull types are human/dog aggressive? im sorry to inform you but GSD, Rotties and Dobes have all been placed in this category before, its just the cop out of the century really, also who are you or anyone else to tell people what breed they can/should be buying/adopting? that is absolutely disgraceful what's next? where do the restrictions stop? its a bandaid solution for a problem that lays with the human race not the k9 one, and I dont think you are anyone to tell people to stop fighting for what they believe in, and that is the culling of innocent dogs for the way they look! next 10 years it WILL be another breed in which the minority will destroy and the majority will have to pay the consequence.

And FYI Pitbulls and American Staffords were the same breed 70 odd years ago, one was bred for show one a pit....... they are not bred for a pit anymore and in some countires they are recognised as a breed, if they were recogised in australia and if they were to be bred ethically and legally, breeding for temprement would have to me a major factor like with any other breed.

Breeding is not all about how the dog physically meets he standard but it is mentally as well, agression can be bred into ANY breed if done so by dim bats.

That's not the point, it's like arguing that at a 0.05 blood alcohol level, your reflexes as a driver are better than the old dear down the street who's 85 years old driving stone cold sober..........it's probably true but doesn't provide a defence under the law as an excuse for pissy driving. When the law is place it doesn't have to be right or wrong, you either abide or you don't and if you don't abide and get caught, cop it on the chin.

I don't disagree that the Pitbull isn't a good breed, infact the "proper" Pitbull's I have met were all good dogs, but releasing the Pitbull from BSL and disregarding the laws by owning and breeding them contrary to the laws regardless because you have a bee in your bonnet over it with a do as you please attitude IMHO is the wromg stance to take and is the reason the anti BSL crusader never make any headway towards their goals, the laws are getting tougher on restricted breeds not slacker, so all the bravado of breeding what you like coz the government are all idoits and everyone can get stuffed isn't working is it??

Edited July 24, 2012 by m-sass

[Jade~Harley~Bella]

And yes it should be in the minds of any possible puppy buyer. Ignorance is no excuse.

I agree with you about those people who are still knowlingly breeding APBT's in states where it is not allowed. Its silly and only going to lead to problems.

However, I do not agree with you that ignorance in no excuse! The unfortunate fact is that the vast majority of people don't know about half the issues relating to dogs. If the majority of people understood the issues surrounding puppy farms, they would not exist. If you can't get the general population to understand the issues regarding puppy farms, how can you expect the average man in the street to identify a staffy cross compared to a pitbull, or even know what potential issues they may face down the track by buying/rescuing a certain dog? In fact how can you expect even those of us who do take a significant interest in the issues to really determine what is a staffy cross or what is a pitbull?

[m-sass]

Given the number of people i see every day who believe that-

- the legislation only applies to dangerous dogs

- the legislation only applies to dogs that ARE pit bulls

Or the people who say "what legislation"?

I think ignorance is an issue- maybe not an excuse- but it is an issue that needs to be addressed. People DON'T realise that any dog that looks a certain way can be deemed restricted. They are not told at point of sale, they are not told when they register their dogs- and the last time i heard anything on TV or radio was ages ago.

Then when there is publicity on TV and radio- there is so much scaremongering that again, people believe it's about 'those nasty pit bulls' or 'dogs taht bite people'.

And what for those people who bought dogs before this legislation came in truly believing their dogs were of XYZ non restricted cross breed?

The breeders/suppliers are the people I believe are at fault, they are the people who need to know the legislation like a used car dealer knows they can't sell a car with bald tyres or brakes that don't work. The shouldn't be cross breeding a Lab with a Staffy, cross the Lab with a Whippet if they have to or create another doodle, but not a Staffy, Amstaff, American Bull Dog or anything of that type of Molosser breed in this present regulated climate. Rescues shouldn't be selling Pitbull look a likes either sad as it is, anyone of credibility dealing dogs should not be leading naive public into these positions where their dogs are vulnerable to seizure, better still perhaps certain suppliers should be permitted to sign off on a dog from a temperament test??.

Personally I would like to see in conjuction with a dog determined as a restricted breed is next question: where did you get it from , who supplied that dog and where possible the breeder/supplier cops a fine for supplying a restricted breed of dog.......there needs to be accountability for breeding and supply which may stop some of the reckless and irresponsible breeding practices in the process??

However, I do not agree with you that ignorance in no excuse! The unfortunate fact is that the vast majority of people don't know about half the issues relating to dogs. If the majority of people understood the issues surrounding puppy farms, they would not exist. If you can't get the general population to understand the issues regarding puppy farms, how can you expect the average man in the street to identify a staffy cross compared to a pitbull, or even know what potential issues they may face down the track by buying/rescuing a certain dog? In fact how can you expect even those of us who do take a significant interest in the issues to really determine what is a staffy cross or what is a pitbull?

Ignorance being no excuse is a standard function of law........I didn't know my dog needed a leash because she has a great recall??, I didn't know I couldn't drive half pissed??....... I didn't know about restricted breeds won't stop the ranger scooping up your dog??.......unfortunately that's how it works. People research what new TV they are going to buy and where they are going to buy it from, they need to apply the same forethoughts into buying a dog and doing so avoids all these problems some people are facing.

Edited July 24, 2012 by m-sass

[melzawelza]

You know M-Sass - I agree with you 100% that the people breeding pit bulls and unpapered bull breeds in Victoria are f**king morons. Agree 100%. Anyone who would bring a dog into the world that could meet the standard is not doing it for the dogs.

But that doesn't mean I won't keep fighting for the poor dog that doesnt deserve to die because of the size of its head. And it certainly doesn't mean I'll just say 'oh well, pit bulls

Are banned and that's the law' and then denigrating the people who are against the laws when these dogs are being killed like you seem to do.

It makes me want to fight even harder to overturn these laws because then we WILL have some great breeders breeding again. And dogs will not be killed because of their appearance.

[Robbi]

You know M-Sass - I agree with you 100% that the people breeding pit bulls and unpapered bull breeds in Victoria are f**king morons. Agree 100%. Anyone who would bring a dog into the world that could meet the standard is not doing it for the dogs.

But that doesn't mean I won't keep fighting for the poor dog that doesnt deserve to die because of the size of its head. And it certainly doesn't mean I'll just say 'oh well, pit bulls

Are banned and that's the law' and then denigrating the people who are against the laws when these dogs are being killed like you seem to do.

It makes me want to fight even harder to overturn these laws because then we WILL have some great breeders breeding again. And dogs will not be killed because of their appearance.

I couldn't agree more, it is the fools that are breeding these dogs that need to be hunted down and punished not the dogs.

Once these dogs are bred responsibility needs to be on the owners to make them good canine members of society. Most people who rescue Bull Breed type dogs are very much aware of training and socialisation and know what potential these dogs often have, it just needs to be nurtured and trained like any other breed or type of dog.

Make Pit Bulls legal and a lot of these bybers will lose interest in breeding.....

I absolutely refuse to believe that dogs are born bad m-sass, there are no dogs on this planet that dont deserve a chance once they have been brought into the world. I certainly dont support bybers or those people who breed cross breeds but I will not condemn the dogs produced by them.

[Dame Aussie]

I give up.

[TheCheekyMonster]

squares will be squares

[Zhou Xuanyao]

Gandhi - moron!!!

Edited July 24, 2012 by Lo Pan

[m-sass]

You know M-Sass - I agree with you 100% that the people breeding pit bulls and unpapered bull breeds in Victoria are f**king morons. Agree 100%. Anyone who would bring a dog into the world that could meet the standard is not doing it for the dogs.

But that doesn't mean I won't keep fighting for the poor dog that doesnt deserve to die because of the size of its head. And it certainly doesn't mean I'll just say 'oh well, pit bulls

Are banned and that's the law' and then denigrating the people who are against the laws when these dogs are being killed like you seem to do.

It makes me want to fight even harder to overturn these laws because then we WILL have some great breeders breeding again. And dogs will not be killed because of their appearance.

I couldn't agree more, it is the fools that are breeding these dogs that need to be hunted down and punished not the dogs.

Once these dogs are bred responsibility needs to be on the owners to make them good canine members of society. Most people who rescue Bull Breed type dogs are very much aware of training and socialisation and know what potential these dogs often have, it just needs to be nurtured and trained like any other breed or type of dog.

Make Pit Bulls legal and a lot of these bybers will lose interest in breeding.....

I absolutely refuse to believe that dogs are born bad m-sass, there are no dogs on this planet that dont deserve a chance once they have been brought into the world. I certainly dont support bybers or those people who breed cross breeds but I will not condemn the dogs produced by them.

AN Australian bulldog that bit the face of a nine-year-old boy as he peered over a fence at Port Lincoln has been put down.

Problem is it's always the same crap involved 9 times out of 10, whatever an Australian Bulldog is, but another "good" dog that can't determine what's a threat and what isn't like little Ayen's killer, what was last weeks, oh another Mastiff X thing that breaks it's collar, kills a little dog, injures another and bites a lady........seriously what do these mongrels think they are protecting for the necessity to kill and people can't understand why laws are tightening up on these "type" of dogs

Dogs with serious foggy headed aggression are hard to handle and difficult to train for novice or irresponsible owners and although I agree in principal that the deed should over ride the breed, but some innocent person or other animal will be the recipient of the deed for action to follow and preventing the deed caused by these half arsed breedings is what scooping up this type of dog is about to save the innocent recipients of the deed from suffering.

So we don't agree with the random BYB's breeding crap dogs, but we are supposed to fight to save their products??, we either support BYB's or we don't and sorry I don't, I hate them passionately and always have done whether they are farming pet shop oodles or producing junk yard guard dogs they are all the same dogs with a different leg action.

Edited July 25, 2012 by m-sass